Thoughts - Rangie rear axle with Maxidrive to 110 County

[Mark2]

Sorry if this is a bit long but here goes:

I have found a RRC rear axle assembly at a wrecker with a maxidrive diff lock. I can purchase the assembly for $300 which seems like a good price. It has fine spline axles but is missing the drive flanges (thats how I know it has the fine spline axles!) Theres an actuator on the housing and some vaccum pipes going to it but the dash control unit on the dash seems to be missing. (it might turn up when I follow the pipes back from the diff) Also the hubs, rotors and calipers are missing but I can also source these from another wreck at the same place. Theres also a fair bit of surface (+) rust on the housing due to beach use.

Now I've been preparing to convert my drum Salisbury rear end to discs but this is another option as I'd get a disc brake housing, diff locker, fairly strong diff/axles by all accounts and better ground clearance. Downside is I'd lose the original look of the Salisbury, have to lengthen the driveshaft and purchase additional parts like drive flanges, vacuum switches for the diff lock etc. Also not sure if the rangie discs are up to fitting to a 110.

Should I go for it or keep the Salisbury and convert it to discs? Would the drive flanges be standard LR parts or would I have to source these from Maxidrive? Also, if the housing is too badly rusted, is it hard to swap the actuator and center to a new housing?

[cloughy]

If you don't do it PM me the details of the wrecker

I'd do the swap, other's are definetely going to disagree, due to the CW+P strength difference

[Mark2]

Do the MD centers stiffen the CW? - you dont hear about breakages when MD's are fitted.........although maxi centers dont get used in a 110 rear end all that often............

[ISUZUROVER]

Do the MD centers stiffen the CW? - you dont hear about breakages when MD's are fitted.........although maxi centers dont get used in a 110 rear end all that often............

The MD centre DOES stiffen the CW&P, but they still break. I have seen quite a few rear ring and pinions break on MD locked rover rears. Breakages were mostly when recovering another vehicle offroad. Also - these were in rangies/bushrangies/etc - so a lot lighter than a 110.

I would never do it. A couple of the above vehicles got sick of breaking rear ring and pinions they sold their rear axle (and MD locker) and fitted a salisbury or similar.

[Philip A]

Main reason for the Salisbury in 110 is load carrying capacity as they weigh about the same as a Rangie..
If you load a 110 right up with gear or people you could bend the housing of a rangie axle.
Come to think of it they bend in Rangies if yumped too much. Of course you could brace it.
So horses for courses
Regards Philip A

[Reddo]

No don't you are going backwards in strength.

[Mark2]

My 110 is a fair bit lighter than a wagon now since converting to a styleside ute. It only weighs about 1650 kg. Stuart at British Off Road says that most of the guys who work there have put disco rear ends in their 110's for clearance and to reduce unsprung weight and inherant backlash. This setup I'm looking at would have to be at least as strong as a disco rear end? He actually questions why anyone would want a Salisbury in the rear of a 110 unless it was carrying massive loads, close to the GVM. Andersons at Hervey Bay also run a standard rangie rear end in one of their Perenties - it tows a boat regularly. Am I really going to need the strength of a Salisbury? Also if the C &P breaks, does it destroy the center or can they be replaced as they are cheap.

How would a maxi center compare with a late model defender (non Salisbury) rear end? Are there reports of these not being up to the application?

I had another look at it today, it comes with all vacuum lines, vacuum switch, resovior, indicator light etc. He will also give me hubs and brakes off another rangie to make it a complelte assembly - all for $300. Its very very tempting........

[ISUZUROVER]

Anyone who is happy with a rover rear end in a 110 must either have standard size tyres and/or not do much 4x4ing. If that is you then maybe it will be fine for you. Towing and carrying heavy loads is easy on an axle/diff compared to the stresses of difficult 4x4ing.

FOR $300 BUY IT NOW - you could sell it again for $800-1000 and a MD locker for your salisbury is only $1500.

[Slunnie]

Don't believe it. A mate runs a heavy Defender TD5, 49% low range transfer, locked, 35' Simex, now Claws with the Rover type diff and has twisted a maxi axle without any diff failures. The Salisburys are just big anchors.

[lokka]

Like ben said

I have thoughts of going a sals in the back of a rangie for a stronger CW'P

[cloughy]

. The Salisburys are just big anchors.

[Mark2]

Do the rover type rear diffs in late Defenders have a stronger C & P? - are they a hypoid diff? How would they compare to what I'm looking at?

[cpmurray]

Mark,
My brother used to run 36" Silverstones on his 2A ex army LWB, with a McNamara hypoid conversion with a McNamara manual difflock, 253 V8 and the rest of the transmission was standard. He slipped backwards off a 1 meter rock ledge in first low on full noise once. It broke the locking axle inbetween the side gear and cross shaft in the diff and twisted the outer spline on both the rear axles with no damage to the diff. Personally I believe that the salisbury are over kill, and way to big and bulky. Some one once asked my brother when he was going to run 38s, and his reply was why bother, he'd just have to put a salisbury in the back and end up with the same ground clearance or less than with the 36's and a rover diff.

Regards
Craig Murray

[ISUZUROVER]

Do the rover type rear diffs in late Defenders have a stronger C & P? - are they a hypoid diff? How would they compare to what I'm looking at?

The late model rover diff is supposed to be stronger, and may be a 4-spider gear centre? but they are definitely not hypoid.

Perhaps some stats here will help:
The Salisbury has a 9.25" crownwheel and is HYPOID
The rover diff has a 8.25" crownwheel and is spiral bevel (so would be equivalent to a much smaller diameter hypoid - toyota 8" diffs are MUCH STRONGER)
When you get a MD locker for a salisbury you keep the entire diff centre, because it is already more than strong enough. When you get a MD rover locker you throw the whole diff centre away.

Mark,
My brother used to run 36" Silverstones on his 2A ex army LWB, with a McNamara hypoid conversion with a McNamara manual difflock, 253 V8 and the rest of the transmission was standard. He slipped backwards off a 1 meter rock ledge in first low on full noise once. It broke the locking axle inbetween the side gear and cross shaft in the diff and twisted the outer spline on both the rear axles with no damage to the diff.

The Macnamara Hypoid conversion uses a TOYOTA 8" ring and pinion - and costs $2800 last I checked. This replaces the weak crappy rover ring and pinion with something smaller but much stronger. This is a good option, but much more $$$ than putting a locker in a salisbury.

Btw - it is very easy to shave a salisbury so that it has about the same clearance as a stock rover diff (or maybe 0.5" more).

Don't believe it. A mate runs a heavy Defender TD5, 49% low range transfer, locked, 35' Simex, now Claws with the Rover type diff and has twisted a maxi axle without any diff failures. The Salisburys are just big anchors.

I find that extremely hard to believe - if it was, either it was a defective axle (or one of mal's early model EN25 axles) or he is the first.

[Slunnie]

Don't believe it. A mate runs a heavy Defender TD5, 49% low range transfer, locked, 35' Simex, now Claws with the Rover type diff and has twisted a maxi axle without any diff failures. The Salisburys are just big anchors.

I find that extremely hard to believe - if it was, either it was a defective axle (or one of mal's early model EN25 axles) or he is the first.

Well there you go. Its a late model Defender amd the axle wasn't old. Another in our drive group has a D1 and has also broken Maxi front shafts with an ARB locked rover diff. They may be stronger axles , but they're not bullet proof. Soooo, perhaps the going theories are wrong.

[cloughy]

Btw - it is very easy to shave a salisbury so that it has about the same clearance as a stock rover diff (or maybe 0.5" more).

Until you shave the rover housing and get an extra 1/2" (imperial measurements dont use .'s ) over the sals again

[ISUZUROVER]

Well there you go. Its a late model Defender amd the axle wasn't old. Another in our drive group has a D1 and has also broken Maxi front shafts with an ARB locked rover diff. They may be stronger axles , but they're not bullet proof. Soooo, perhaps the going theories are wrong.

Now I definitely don't believe it until I have seen pics. I have seen a couple of broken MD EN25 axles, and a couple of twisted AMS6418 axles, but that is as far as it goes. Nothing to do with theories - just what I have seen break with my own eyes - heaps of 3.54s, 4.1s and 4.7s, no MD axles.

Cloughy - I thought you like to think of yourself as a mechanic? - do you say you want your cylinders bored or your crank reground 1/50" do you?

You guys who think rover diffs are so strong are welcome to them - more salisburies for me.

[cloughy]

Cloughy - I thought you like to think of yourself as a mechanic? - do you say you want your cylinders bored or your crank reground 1/50" do you? .

No i'd never think of myself as a mechanic, what a horrible job, good hobby but although i think i stick to being an lektrisian

You guys who think rover diffs are so strong are welcome to them - more salisburies for me.

more for you.....I'd never say they were as strong as a sals, but the sals is a grader blade, its HUUGE, a much bigger housing than a 9" i had in a rangie, i mean you could fit a truck diff (well the sals is anyway) but you still need to make up for the loss of clearance

I'd fit it because it'll be a CHEAP locker setup which is reasonably reliable, be may not be able to afford a new maxi for his sals, so this is a good option.... in other words i think a maxi locked rover is better than a standard centre/axled sals

[Slunnie]

Well there you go. Its a late model Defender amd the axle wasn't old. Another in our drive group has a D1 and has also broken Maxi front shafts with an ARB locked rover diff. They may be stronger axles , but they're not bullet proof. Soooo, perhaps the going theories are wrong.

Now I definitely don't believe it until I have seen pics. I have seen a couple of broken MD EN25 axles, and a couple of twisted AMS6418 axles, but that is as far as it goes. Nothing to do with theories - just what I have seen break with my own eyes - heaps of 3.54s, 4.1s and 4.7s, no MD axles.

<snip>

You guys who think rover diffs are so strong are welcome to them - more salisburies for me.

I must be telling lies then.

Its not that Rover diffs are stronger than Salisburys, but its about being strong enough, and being able to offer the clearance to drive tracks with sensible tyres. If I stick a tape measure under my Rover/35" diffs, what does a Salisbury need to have the same clearnace? About a 38" tyre which the body isn't going to reasonably allow and a Salisbury even with Maxi axles isn't going to be any more reliable.

[ISUZUROVER]

I must be telling lies then.

Its not that Rover diffs are stronger than Salisburys, but its about being strong enough, and being able to offer the clearance to drive tracks with sensible tyres. If I stick a tape measure under my Rover/35" diffs, what does a Salisbury need to have the same clearnace? About a 38" tyre which the body isn't going to reasonably allow and a Salisbury even with Maxi axles isn't going to be any more reliable.

Wouldn't put it past you mate

The difference is not as much as people think - especially if you spend a few minutes with a grinder.

I once was out at Big Boys 4x4 park with a mate who had an almost identical landie (but with a rover diff front and rear). He had new 32's, I had almost bald 32's. There was one hill he could get up (diffs were scraping) but I couldn't. I borrowed some 1/3 worn 33" MTs from a mate (because I was thinking of buying some) and sailed up without a problem.

[Mark2]

Well I bought it this afternoon. Had a couple of scary moments cutting through the A frame with an oxy while the rangie was up in the air on a forklift but its now sitting in my shed.

There is a white nylon line which runs with the red and green vacuum lines - is this a breather? should it be connected to the diff breather?

I know a salisbury is going to be a lot stronger but for the money (I cant afford a locker for the Salisbury) I couldnt go past it. As said above, the question is "is it strong enough" . Based on the replies above, I think the the answer is " very likely"

[ISUZUROVER]

There is a white nylon line which runs with the red and green vacuum lines - is this a breather? should it be connected to the diff breather?

I know a salisbury is going to be a lot stronger but for the money (I cant afford a locker for the Salisbury) I couldnt go past it. As said above, the question is "is it strong enough" . Based on the replies above, I think the the answer is " very likely"

Great find - for $300 it is a bargain.

The white line is a breather, but it should be connected to the pneumatic cylinder (this is now the breather) - you need to block the original breather hole if it isn't covered already.

If you think it might be strong enough for you - then go right ahead. If you find out later you want the salisbury back in you will be able to make a profit when you sell it.

[Reddo]

Great buy...and great discussion on the pros and cons of Sals versus std Rover R n Ps.

Makes me think of the debate about fitting Nissan diffs under the Rover - same sort of issues, gain strength but lose clearance etc.
Dilemas, so many choices

[cloughy]

There is a white nylon line which runs with the red and green vacuum lines - is this a breather? should it be connected to the diff breather?

I know a salisbury is going to be a lot stronger but for the money (I cant afford a locker for the Salisbury) I couldnt go past it. As said above, the question is "is it strong enough" . Based on the replies above, I think the the answer is " very likely"

Great find - for $300 it is a bargain.

The white line is a breather, but it should be connected to the pneumatic cylinder (this is now the breather) - you need to block the original breather hole if it isn't covered already.

If you think it might be strong enough for you - then go right ahead. If you find out later you want the salisbury back in you will be able to make a profit when you sell it.

Maybe on a sals it should go to the block, but on a rover housing it goes to the breather