PTO?

[ROGQ]

hey guys... im interested in getting a pto winch for my 4b.. i drive a gq patrol and have an arb winch bar and am just curious if one would fit in there or if i would have to do some serious mods to make one fit... also i have heard that a bad thing about pto winches is that you cant winch when your motors snuffed so some people recomend electric. but how far would an electric pull without an alternator charging. my main reason for wanting a pto is the endless pulling power and not having to rely on battery power but what do you do with no motor? hand winch?. just wanting some oinions on which is the better winch and why.

[shorty_f0rty]

you get more line speed options with a PTO but yeh.. the clincher is you need your motor running to use it..

so wouldn't work with the vehcile on its side or roof..

[MUD EMPIRE]

They will fit in your bar when modified. Not as foolproof as an
elec winch. When used correctly, PTO's are hard to beat. But
it still leaves you up the creek if you're on your roof!!!!
Not really much help aye.................

[ROGQ]

They will fit in your bar when modified. Not as foolproof as an
elec winch. When used correctly, PTO's are hard to beat. But
it still leaves you up the creek if you're on your roof!!!!
Not really much help aye.................

umm sort mud empire... couldnt a hand winch get you out of that sorta situation if need be?

[GQ Bear]

They will fit in your bar when modified. Not as foolproof as an
elec winch. When used correctly, PTO's are hard to beat. But
it still leaves you up the creek if you're on your roof!!!!
Not really much help aye.................

umm sort mud empire... couldnt a hand winch get you out of that sorta situation if need be?

Have fun

Personnally i prefer electric winch. Too much can go wrong with PTO, shear pins can break at the wrong time (like if your in water/mud), you can't drive+winch, and the obvious - no go = no winch.

Hydraulic i'd say are too expensive and slow and same problem, must have engine running.

Of course electric needs battery power, but in comparison it's easy to replace/jump a battery if necessary

[MUD EMPIRE]

They will fit in your bar when modified. Not as foolproof as an
elec winch. When used correctly, PTO's are hard to beat. But
it still leaves you up the creek if you're on your roof!!!!
Not really much help aye.................

umm sort mud empire... couldnt a hand winch get you out of that sorta situation if need be?

Don't get me wrong...a PTO is a great winch. But they are starting
to get a little outdated. An elec winch (a good one) is a cheeper
option, more foolproof, effective for most weekend 4WDers when
considering the sort of use it will get, easier to install etc. etc. etc........

[Tojo]

if your already interested in a PTO id say get one. You cant use it if your motor isnt going but if thats the case your in serious strife anyway. And realistically it is highly unlikely that you will end up with a situation with a u/s motor. Sure you can break a shear pin if you overload the winch, the solution is not to overload it. It also depends on how much you use the winch. PTO winches are better for prolonged winching efforts than electric winches. Standard hydraulic winches are SLOW, modified high speed hydraulic ones can be very expensive. Modified electric winches can end up being expensive too. Everyone will have a differant opinion. Read everyones opinion and then make up your own mind. Sometimes its worthwhile carrying a hand winch as well as a mechanical winch, especially if you end up on your roof!

[dumbdunce]

Personnally i prefer electric winch. Too much can go wrong with PTO, shear pins can break at the wrong time (like if your in water/mud)

electric motors burn out, brakes stick, gearboxes jam up when full of mud and water, there is a lot that goes wrong with electric winches too.

, you can't drive+winch

false

, and the obvious - no go = no winch.

which is about the same for an electric winch. see how far you can winch on one battery without the engine running.

Of course electric needs battery power, but in comparison it's easy to replace/jump a battery if necessary

if you have those resources available, you have another vehicle there to assist with the recovery. a properly set up PTO is far more reliable than an electric. Blowing shear pins means the only thing you should ever damage is.. the shear pin! PTO's are faster have you can control the speed by gear selection and engine RPM. most PTO winches have a cable capacity of some 50 - 60m or 8mm wire rope, and more again if you go polymer. They weight about the same but distribute the weight better with the "motor" (ie PTO box) back under the middle of the vehicle. The freespool on PTO winches is a true free spool and easy to run out (if you've ever freespooled an 8274 you know what I'm talking about!).

the downsides of PTO winches have been covered, but they are mostly the same downsides to ANY winch. The worst part is probably going to be finding what you want, I know there are PTO setups for patrols but they are rare and costly compared to what is available for cruisers (toyota possibly still makes PTO's for 105 series - they were making them for 80 series up to 1998).

the upside of electric is, pretty much anyone can bolt one on and connect it to the battery, but the time saving at install time will be lost the first couple of times you use it. the cost differential will be paid back if you regularly use your winch - a few good winching sessions with an electric will destroy the battery whether the engine is running or not.

hope this is of some help. I have owned 2 cruisers with custom PTO setups and I have a full factory PTO winch and box waiting to go into my 80 series. for the patrol though, I don't know, I'd do the homework and find out what is available, but if it's difficult or super spendy I'd go electric.

cheers
DD

[turps]

DD PTO's are available for Patrols upto about 2000. They then deleted the option. So the gearbox couldn't be fitted with the PTO.
GQ/GU are different to how they operate compared to Toy, LR and MQ/K etc. As with these the PTO is on the transfercase. So it is possible to winch in what ever gear you want.
With the GQ/GU there is only forwards and reverse drive on the PTO, as it is mounted on the front of the gearbox. Factory use a lever mounted like the 4b shifter. To control the winch, and its mounted on the drivers side of the trans tunnel. Most after market ones use the same PTO, but are cable operated T handle, mounted LHS of steering coloum.
I had the 2nd setup, using a thomas 8000lb worm drive winch. Which had 50m of 9mm steel cable, but capable of approx 60m of rope. the factory setup which I have now (seen on jap import GQ's) is only caable of 30m of steel or 35m rope. But it is possible to widen and narrow the drum. I am not real sure how to do it as I haven't pulled mine apart yet.

[THE 109]

with a pto winch would it be possible to winch yourself back onto your wheels if your fourby was on it's roof,by hooking the winch up and using the starter motor (with the transfercase in neutral and the winch engaged,maybe 1st gear to reduce the load ) to crank it over?

[dumbdunce]

with a pto winch would it be possible to winch yourself back onto your wheels if your fourby was on it's roof,by hooking the winch up and using the starter motor (with the transfercase in neutral and the winch engaged,maybe 1st gear to reduce the load ) to crank it over?

not really. no front mounted winch works well for that kind of pull - a hand winch is a lot better. the pull direction is one thing but running a PTO off the starter motor is very very very slow.

[turps]

109
With the factory Nissan winch drum. I think you stuck you either run the car or get someone else to put you back on your wheels. This maybe the reason why alot of the Kiwis also run a Elec winch.
But if using a Thomas stlye winch drum. On the front of the worm drive most have a spot where a crank handle can be put. So it would be possible to use a snatch block and a hand crank on the worm drive to put a car back on its wheels.

[ROGQ]

thanx for all your inputs i appreciate it all... i have been doing some serious looking and a pto winch for a patrol seems to be hard to come by... unless one pops up soon im guessing ill go the electric seeing my is already set up for one. thanx guys!

[THE 109]

already got a crank handle to suit a thomas,the problem with that is my winch is centre mounted.i agree that a hand winch is very useful,more often than not we go with a variety of winch equiped vehicles.some have pto and others electric,don't see many hydraulic ones though.when you need a short simple recovery we send in the electric winch as it is quicker to set up and pack up,but when the going gets tough the electric winches don't get used.we just get the pto to the top of the hill and let them pull the lot up.it's faster and reliable,no dead battries or burnt out motors.

[ROGQ]

hey i just seen a thomas pto winch in the trader to suit a landcrusier. Will this fit a patrol??? i think ive heard thomas is a good brand too? is this true.. also its only 8000lbs. will this be enough for a patrol ute?

[ROGQ]

just adding... the price is $850 Good?

[Tojo]

the actual winch itself will fit (or you can make it fit) but the PTO box wont fit your patrol.

[J Top]

You need to check the left side of your g/box as it needs to have a removable alloy plate there. Nissan seem to have deleted it after 1996.
The gear to drive the PTO is still in the g/box though so if your keen you can remove the box and have the hole machined , drilled and tapped into the side of the box. I have been involved with doing this 3 times

[ROGQ]

yes mine is a 93 model so he removable plate is there.

[LOCKEE]

Have seen some GQ's with the plate but no drive gear in the gearbox.

Many years ago so brain a bit fuzzy on the details.

[shorty_f0rty]

i paid $450 for my thomas PTO a year or so ago.. pretty lucky with the price and only really used it a few times..

couldn't believe I could winch a 60 with my 40! so i think it must of been a 12,000lb'er

[nastytroll]

Big downfall of pto is for instants if you are stuck in a creek full of big rocks say over the hight of your cetre point of your tyre the pto will pull you straiht into the rock, i've seen the main shaft brake on 2 75 series utes dound this, where with an electric you only use the winch to stop the vehicle slipping off the rock and drive it.

Just something to think about, but you might not drive this sort of terrain, if you only drive mud n sand pto's r ok but i still prefer electric

If you keep a look out you can pick up a 10,000lb T-MAX 4 $900 easy to install n the same as a TJM OX

[dumbdunce]

Big downfall of pto is for instants if you are stuck in a creek full of big rocks say over the hight of your cetre point of your tyre the pto will pull you straiht into the rock, i've seen the main shaft brake on 2 75 series utes dound this, where with an electric you only use the winch to stop the vehicle slipping off the rock and drive it.

this can also be achieved with PTO winches.

[toyotroop]

PTO all the way, it will go all day long. A thomas 8000 pound PTO pulled my troopy up a near vertical creak bank!! Also being able to spool in the cable in 3rd or 4th means your off and wheeling a LOT quicker.

[GQ TROL]

Also being able to spool in the cable in 3rd or 4th means your off and wheeling a LOT quicker.

Can only do this on Toyota's as the PTO output is on the Xfer-case. Nissan one comes off the gearbox, so winch speed is only dictated by engine revs.

[badger]

can you drive with a nissan pto?
i realise it comes off the box but surely there is a gear that you can use to get a driving speed close to winch speed n drive?

ps i kno very little about pto winches but id love one on my gq as i think they are less of an expense in the long run and even if not used regularily will still work when needed


pps could anyone give me an idea what a pto setup for a gq is worth they are hard to find in aus but i hear they are common in nz

[GQ TROL]

can you drive with a nissan pto?
i realise it comes off the box but surely there is a gear that you can use to get a driving speed close to winch speed n drive?

ps i kno very little about pto winches but id love one on my gq as i think they are less of an expense in the long run and even if not used regularily will still work when needed


pps could anyone give me an idea what a pto setup for a gq is worth they are hard to find in aus but i hear they are common in nz

Yes you can winch and drive at the same time, but when you regain traction you will over-run the winch. Often when winching and driving in a bog, or just dig yourself deeper so is best to dead-pull by winching only.

To match winching and driving speed without altering the winch, you need to use Xfer case reduction gears.....86% reduction gets you pretty close in 1st gear.

People have just started experimenting with over-drive boxes on the PTO output to get the winching speed up to driving speed. I would be hesitant in using this on the GQ output has they have a habit of smashing the constant driven gear on the output, and an overdrive setup will only make it worse. We're playing with custom gears so once that is sorted, will look at overdrive.

I've supplied a few complete PTO assemblies into AU. They're about NZ$1500 plus freight. Biggest problem is finding one in good condition, as they mostly came into the country on late 1980 or early 1990 GQ's and their condition is suspect if not maintained.

[badger]

not much mud here so that wont be an issue.
more rocks n hills. sounds like a pto might be hard to set up to winch n drive

ahh well off to do some more research
cheers

[GQ TROL]

not much mud here so that wont be an issue.
more rocks n hills. sounds like a pto might be hard to set up to winch n drive

ahh well off to do some more research
cheers

For a club truck, a set of xfer reduction gears will have you sorted. For a comp truck where you want to retain driving speed, then overdrive box will be required. At this stage, I would have more faith in using reduction gears as I know it works well with a PTO.