fitting a Pertronix to a GQ

[ledgno1]

Hey bilby,

It did indeed get re-torqued at opp temp, and they were also adjusted approx 1000km's after that.

What are mono torque gaskets??

I don't know how they determined the level of vaccum - it wasn't a compression test though - i'd imagine they would have put a vaccum gauge on it...

[Madmac]

i took the dizzy out and ground it down with a bench grinder

[ledgno1]

Thanks madmac - I ended up doing mine with a dremel type tool which worked well and removed the need to remove the dizzy and redo the timing etc

[ledgno1]

Hey everyone,

Well the car really spat the dummy tonight in a big way - it dropped down on to what I can only describe as being 2 cylinders in total

The problems are only occuring as the car gets hotter, don't get me wrong its not overheating or running hotter than it should but I figured out tonight after waiting for 2 hours in the pitch dark somewhere between Peats Ridge and Somesby for a tow truck that the coil is becoming red hot!!!

Once the coil cools down all is fine again (it took and hour for it to cool down enough)......

Any ideas what's making my coil cook??? I run an MSD 5, Blaster 2 coil and now as you know a Pertronix ignition module.

I did consider pushing it of a near by cliff why I was there it's got that frustrating!!!

HELP!

[bilby]

Hey everyone,

Well the car really spat the dummy tonight in a big way - it dropped down on to what I can only describe as being 2 cylinders in total

The problems are only occuring as the car gets hotter, don't get me wrong its not overheating or running hotter than it should but I figured out tonight after waiting for 2 hours in the pitch dark somewhere between Peats Ridge and Somesby for a tow truck that the coil is becoming red hot!!!

Once the coil cools down all is fine again (it took and hour for it to cool down enough)......

Any ideas what's making my coil cook??? I run an MSD 5, Blaster 2 coil and now as you know a Pertronix ignition module.

I did consider pushing it of a near by cliff why I was there it's got that frustrating!!!

HELP!

resistance is the only thig that makes electrics get hot

Wire Length: All of the wires of the MSD Ignition may be shortened as long as quality connectors are used or soldered in place. To lengthen the wires, use one size bigger gauge wire (10 gauge for the power leads and 16 gauge for the other wires) with the proper connections. All connections must be soldered and sealed.
Grounds: A poor ground connection can cause many frustrating problems. When a wire is specified to go to ground, it should be connected to the battery negative terminal, engine block or chassis. There should always be a ground strap between the engine and the chassis. Always securely connect the ground wire to a clean, paint free metal surface.
Routing Wires: The MSD wires should be routed away from direct heat sources such as exhaust manifolds and headers and any sharp edges. The trigger wires should be routed separate from the other wires and spark plug wires. It is best if they are routed along a ground plane such as the block or firewall which creates an electrical shield. The magnetic pickup wires should always be routed separately and should be twisted together to help reduce extraneous interference.
PRESTART CHECK LIST
• The only wires connected to the coil terminals are the MSD Orange to coil positive and Black to coil negative.
• The small Red wire of the MSD is connected to a switched 12 volt source.
• Confirm the cylinder select is in the proper position for your application.
• The MSD power leads are connected directly to the battery positive and negative terminals.
• The battery is connected and fully charged if not using an alternator.
• The engine is equipped with at least one ground strap to the chassis.










http://www.msdignition.com/7530html/info.htm

[joe crothers]

Sorry to hijack the thread but I've just had the Ignitor installed in my tb42. It runs real well on petrol redlines freely, but on gas under load it starts to breakdown at around 3500 rpm. Any ideas as to why it would be doing this?
thanks Joe

[ledgno1]

Hey joe,

Mine is breaking down under load a bit too - I think my problems are to do with tappets that are out of adjustment and possibly the fact that the heat under the bonnet is getting so hot that the coil is loosing it's efficiency.

I've disconnected my MSD 5 and Blaster coil at the moment and didn't realise what a good job it was obviously doing as the car doesn't pull as well now - however so far it seems to have fixed my terminal miss at least.

Bonnet vents here I come!!!

PS: Thanks heaps for the info on the MSD bilby - when I get some time I will rewire it making sure it's well away from the hot stuff!

[BowTieGQ]

I had an Ignitor II for about 2 weeks, with the Flamethrower II coil to suit. The coil kept getting way too hot and broke down under load. Couldn't even touch the coil it was so hot. He claimed it was too close to the exhaust manifold. But was a little further away than the factory one. Got to admit though, they do run hot under the bonnet. Got so bad that I couldn't even drive it lightly at all. Returned unit and got a reco distributor from Performance Ignition Services with Crane stuff instead. Been perfect ever since.
If yours is breaking down under load, it will most likely be power to the coil or from it.

[bilby]

Crane stuff instead. .

crane stuff is way better in my opion and there alot smaller units which makes it easier to place them in the engine bay

[bilby]

Hey joe,

Mine is breaking down under load a bit too - I think my problems are to do with tappets that are out of adjustment and possibly the fact that the heat under the bonnet is getting so hot that the coil is loosing it's efficiency.

I've disconnected my MSD 5 and Blaster coil at the moment and didn't realise what a good job it was obviously doing as the car doesn't pull as well now - however so far it seems to have fixed my terminal miss at least.

Bonnet vents here I come!!!

PS: Thanks heaps for the info on the MSD bilby - when I get some time I will rewire it making sure it's well away from the hot stuff!

have you thought of making a heat sheild for it first ???

[BowTieGQ]

bilby, the Ignitor is smaller than a matchbox, goes inside distributor and that's all. No box outside like the Crane. But I'm not complaining. The heat shield thing is probably the go. Although it shouldn't be needed. Anything made to go under a bonnet should work fine there. The factory coil is just opposite the exhaust and it works fine. Having said that, I am going to make a heat shield for all the ignition stuff and dual battery.

[bilby]

bilby, the Ignitor is smaller than a matchbox, goes inside distributor and that's all. No box outside like the Crane. But I'm not complaining. The heat shield thing is probably the go. Although it shouldn't be needed. Anything made to go under a bonnet should work fine there. The factory coil is just opposite the exhaust and it works fine. Having said that, I am going to make a heat shield for all the ignition stuff and dual battery.

meant the crane units are smaller than most MSD units
arn't most standard coils oil filled or something ???


just a suggestion but dont both cars that are having dramas run LPG ??
maybe its too hot a spark for the gas , do they run fine on petrol ??

[BowTieGQ]

In that case, I'd say your right. Crane stuff is smaller on average. The Nissan oil filled coil is huge. Bigger than average. Every single expert I have spoken to about coils said just use the factory one. If not, just a cheap Bosch GT40 oil filled one. They will outperform the rest of the car unless you've spent mega bucks on the engine then get something better.

[ledgno1]

Thanks for all the info guys - mine coil was getting so hot I couldn't touch it either - LPG or Petrol, it doesn't make any difference, when I broke down I was on Petrol in a effort to run the car that little bit cooler!

My extractors are also wrapped which made a big difference to under bonnet temps - I think I'll do as you guys suggest and make a sheild as well as getting some vents cut into the bonnet

So far since I've disconneted the MSD and gone back to the standard coil I've only had small minor misfires and nothing to stop it going, although it is certainly now where near as responsive as it was with the MSD so I'm gonna have a look at getting the back later on

I had a temp prob tucked inside the front guard on the drivers side of the car which is bar far the cooler of the sides and it was reading 63 Celeius - far out these things run hot - and that was the cooler side

[MyGQ]

I went down the pointless ignition system myself when i have my LPG maverick

I went the crane cam Fireball ignition System XR700 i believe the model was.

Yes the crane came does have a external box that sits outside of the dizzy, i like this idea as there is something that you can replace if it dies without having to strip it out of the dizzy (unless the optic sensor goes)

I am not a fan of the magnetic pickup units, as i have had them before in other cars we have had, nothing but problems, in fact i got water in the dizzy with the crane cam and it still worked 100% since the pickup was optical not electronic.

I put the fireball in a plastic container with 2 air lines, one in and one out, connected one side to the inlet duct for the engine where it goes into the panel at the front of the car, the other i ran to where the front diff gets its air from. sealed the unit inside the box with silicon so it couldn't get wet but was under suction to keep air flowing through and cool.

Never had any problems at all with my setup, was the best i ever had.

[BowTieGQ]

Thanks MyGQ, you've just reminded me that I must box mine up too.

[patrol42]

The New Ignitor Models (p/n 1762LS) are a Lobe Sensor tyope and dont need the magnet ring so they are even easier to install..

[PGS 4WD]

I'd agree to check the tappets, you wil find its the exhausts that tighten so unless you can tell what the exhaust tappets sound like compared to the inlets I'd be checking with a feeler gauge, I set the exhaust loose on lpg as the hotter operating temp means the valves grow more when hot. .4mm up from .38 std.
The petronix is OK but cant handle low impedence coils, your Coil may be drawing excessive current for the unit. You may need to consider a SU12 coil, and bypass the ballast. Also make sure you have the petronix powered off 12v not the coil power as this is a reduced ballasted voltage(If the origional wiring is used) The MSD is a 12 v coil and you should bypass the ballast. The crane and pirana systems allow the use of higher output coils that have lower primary resistances, basically the lower the primary resistance of a coil the more current it draws and the bigger the belt it delivers.
Joel

[rOd]

I'd agree to check the tappets, you wil find its the exhausts that tighten so unless you can tell what the exhaust tappets sound like compared to the inlets I'd be checking with a feeler gauge, I set the exhaust loose on lpg as the hotter operating temp means the valves grow more when hot. .4mm up from .38 std.
The petronix is OK but cant handle low impedence coils, your Coil may be drawing excessive current for the unit. You may need to consider a SU12 coil, and bypass the ballast. Also make sure you have the petronix powered off 12v not the coil power as this is a reduced ballasted voltage(If the origional wiring is used) The MSD is a 12 v coil and you should bypass the ballast. The crane and pirana systems allow the use of higher output coils that have lower primary resistances, basically the lower the primary resistance of a coil the more current it draws and the bigger the belt it delivers.
Joel

This is very useful info.

Im running an MSD blaster SS coil at the moment, and Ive got a petronix on order, but Ive ordered it through a local re-seller and three weeks of waiting and still nothing. Very dodgy to deal with. (Ive just removed the re-sellers name from this post)

But anyway, keep the info flowing.

[patrol42]

You can get teh pertonix from retro Rockets on the US, and they are 129.00 inc shipping..cheaper than anyone I have found in Aus so far

[joe crothers]

just a suggestion but dont both cars that are having dramas run LPG ??
maybe its too hot a spark for the gas , do they run fine on petrol ??[/quote] Mine runs fine on petrol only on gas it breaks down could this be
sparkplugs or the ignitor hooked up to the coil and not a 12v supply. What if it was running to rich or lean on lpg could this be effecting it?

[oldbugger]

AND Patrol42 that is for the lobe sensing version (1762LS) that needs no alteration to the dizzy shaft to install........

It makes you wonder..we can get it full retail price from the USA air freighted out for only 60% of what they charge here ... (admitedly no customs or gst)....

[scorched]

Same deal as auto-lockers, Can get them way cheaper straight from the states. Although i got mine cheaper from aus but i was lucky $320.

Suppose our strong dollar helps.

Im running a pertronix with the matching 40 000v flame thrower coil with petrol. Not using the ballast resistor. It starts and runs easy.

Im not sure how it runs completely as my car is still a work in progress


Heres the sales spiel:

While it's the perfect coil to go with the PerTronix Ignitor breakerless ignition, our new 40,000 volt Flame-Thrower can benefit virtually any distributor type induction system. For one thing, the higher voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power, smoother response and better fuel economy.

Choose from chrome or OEM black, they're oil filled for better cooling and voltage insulation; or get the epoxy version of the Flame-Thrower when extreme vibration is a factor.

* Maximize energy and reliability over the full RPM range
* 40,000 available volts
* Enables larger plug gaps for greater fuel efficiency, more power
* Delivers an average of 15% more spark energy and voltage
* Legal in all 50 states and Canada
* Fits existing brackets
* Made in U.S.A.

[Mowie]

AND Patrol42 that is for the lobe sensing version (1762LS) that needs no alteration to the dizzy shaft to install........

Thank you sooooo much for that part number, I went to their website and was buggered trying to find the right one. I'll be on the phone in the morning

[PGS 4WD]

Petrol is easier to ignite than LPG, there are less carbon molecules in LPG (hence the cleaner emissions) but this makes it harder to ionize the plug gap as the spark jumps between the conductive carbon molecules in the combustion chamber. This is why you need better leads(spiral core) and bigger coil outputs and smaller plug gaps for LPG. In regards to combustion temp, it is true LPG combusts hotter than Petrol in similar states of tune therefore colder spark plugs should be used, it is typical to run the coldest plugs that an engine can run without fouling, this is why modified and turbo engine use colder plugs also. Too hotter plug may glow in the chamber and cause pre-ignition.

Joel

[V8Patrol]

Added to the good book

[Mowie]

You can get teh pertonix from retro Rockets on the US, and they are 129.00 inc shipping..cheaper than anyone I have found in Aus so far

Just ordered an Ignitor 1762LS, $124 AUD including shipping

Got to love the Aussie Dollar at the moment

[offroader-rama]

i just put a crane fireball 700 and matching 60'000 v coil new plugs 1.1 and i have lpg / petrol.
l i put a post up when i first did it about a month ago and every tom dick and harry bagged out crane stuff now i here there good this week.
but i to have a bad flat spot of idle after sitting a lights etc i cant find the fault and i have had it to two machinics second one today waiting to find out his opion they other had no idea.
other than that it has heaps more revs and pick up (once moving) fuel down but im driving it harder, because i can so as for fuel waiting to slow down to see what i get.
and my coil is stinking hot to !!
i also put each thing on out a time so if some thing went wrong it would bee easy to find !
i tried 0.8 gap and i beleive 1.1 to be better !

[PGS 4WD]

The biggest plug gap the coil will support is always better, hence late model cars running separate coils and 1.5mm plug gaps. What mixer do you have and is your flat spot on both petrol and LPG.

If its on both fuels make sure the vacuum advance hasn't got a diaphram hole, if its just gas, it could be low converter primary pressure, or a sticking mixer(common on 425 impco if run on its side), if its petrol only maybe accelerator pump.
Some things to look into anyway

Joel

[offroader-rama]

it wont run on petrol accelerator pump is dead i booked it in for a the carby kit to be fiited yesterday and a tune when i picked it up they told me that my rotor button was two short, (I've orded a new longer one from rocket) and they told me they didn't have the aquipment to reco a carby ????? why did they take the job on, mind boggles.
i still have the flat spot and i got 280 ks out of a tank normaly 350 and down a $100 for them to waste my time i laeve for rover park in the morning and wonted it all good now there is no time to look at it

how do i check if mixer sticking or bad primary pressure the car is with wife shopping but i think it is a impco 425 and its on its side in line with the length of the car and i have a pipe running to the snorkle to help with the primary pressure.