GQ class , new winch challenge class?? updated....

[gqpete]

yeah a great idea mate my truck will comply easily but you need to work in the efi models and turbo diesel models because there are so many of these about as GQs werent just limited to naturally aspirated models only

there is lots of range rovers and cruisers to, but this is gq class and there is a reason for carbie. to cap the performance so all is equal. equal racing. there is already trophy class for the turbo deisels etc. if you enter gq class for example you'll know that all your fellow competitors are racing the same stages with the same winch and motor and tyres etc. every one already doesn't have any power advantage etc, ONLY ADVANTAGE IS YOUR OWN DRIVING SKILL , aginst the others.

[gqpete]

yeah a great idea mate my truck will comply easily but you need to work in the efi models and turbo diesel models because there are so many of these about as GQs werent just limited to naturally aspirated models only

the only factory turboed GQ was the 2.8. the 4.2 was never released in oz with a hair dryer.

x2.

[gqpete]

I like the idea of this class but think that max tyre size should be 33" and either no lockers or just a rear locker of any kind in case ppl already ahve the factory unit.

No-one is saying you have to have front and rear lockers are they?

They way i understood it was that these were the limiting rules, not the must have rules (with the exception of a control tyre) Correct me if i'm wrong Darren or Pete but as i understand you can have a stock patrol with no lift and no lockers if you want?

stock is fine , you may even do better with no front locker as standard gq front cv's bust easyish with a bit of right foot .

[BowTieGQ]

Howsabout, we all build cars to suit the class we choose to race in. Not make rules to suit the car we have.
My 2c, no lockers and factory LSD in rear only. 33" only. Height 4" total, however you achieve it - unsure how to measure though. GQ suspension only as supplied by Nissan. Engines, stick with NA TD and the TBS. Yes they suck rs but keeps it fun. That is what this class is for isn't it...fun?
Winch..what winch?

[Cheezy4x4]

I love the idea and will totaly support and back it where I can. I love the standard idea thing keeping it an even playing field and the better driver-team on the day takes the win.
I have one issue that can and will be a sticking point, being one brand supplier bit.
I do run events and keep an open door to every supplier and build as that keeps brands competitive and a chance to get your own sponsers with something different but the same size ect retaining an even field.
EG: If I stake 2 tyres of xyz brand (control brand) and then 2 weeks later the control brand is changed, I then am out of pocket too remain in the field. Rememer this will be every day people with very limited budgets and yes some will be daily drivers and weekend vehicles that will be needing more tyres than one set a year. I see alot of people building vehicles from S/H parts keeping budgets as low as pos.
This isnt knocking just trying too help where I can (sometimes looking from the outside in sees the unseen).
Again if you need anything just ask Cheezy

[krimnl]

I love the idea and will totaly support and back it where I can. I love the standard idea thing keeping it an even playing field and the better driver-team on the day takes the win.
I have one issue that can and will be a sticking point, being one brand supplier bit.
I do run events and keep an open door to every supplier and build as that keeps brands competitive and a chance to get your own sponsers with something different but the same size ect retaining an even field.
EG: If I stake 2 tyres of xyz brand (control brand) and then 2 weeks later the control brand is changed, I then am out of pocket too remain in the field. Rememer this will be every day people with very limited budgets and yes some will be daily drivers and weekend vehicles that will be needing more tyres than one set a year. I see alot of people building vehicles from S/H parts keeping budgets as low as pos.
This isnt knocking just trying too help where I can (sometimes looking from the outside in sees the unseen).
Again if you need anything just ask Cheezy

Thanks for the support Mark

the main reason for controlled suspension & tyres is that these are the 2 main areas that need to be controlled, no tyre guage needed or tape measures . if you dont have the controlled equiptment , you dont race.
controlled items will need to be locked in for 1 or 2 years.

[tuf045]

Why not just make it as maked by manufacture on side wall? my reason being that almost every one that would want to run in this class will have a sent of 35" tyres of some brand.I can understand the control tyre but isn't this to encourage people to get out there and have a go in there daily drivers? and keep the ever rising cost of 4x4 motorsport to the minimal side of things?

[dogbreath_48]

...isn't this to encourage people to get out there and have a go in there daily drivers?

No, it's to enable people to build a cheaper comp car yet still have a chance of being competitive

and keep the ever rising cost of 4x4 motorsport to the minimal side of things?

Yes. I'm not sure people realise hoe much money goes into a decent winch truck. As has been stated the really competitive trucks have 100k + in them.

[tuf045]

will this be a Vic only class or will it be avaible in other states to?

[GQ Bear]

My understanding of this is that it will not be a daily driver evnt or stocker bash event. It will infact be a series of very serious offroad evnts which will be taken very seriously by all involved; competitors, marshalls, organisers, sponsors, spectators, support crews, etc.

It will cost money to enter and vehicles will need constant maintenance, repairs, etc. to keep them in the race and ensure readiness for subsequent events on the race calandar.

The idea is that will be a hell of a lot cheaper than the open class vehicles which are exeeding the 100k mark and huge entry fees to boot. Even if i was to spend up to 30k on a competitive vehicle that will see me remain competitive season after season then i'd be in. It's just getting too hard to compete with guys who seem to have endless supply of money and rescources at their disposal.

Think of HQ Holden racing, and it'd be something like that. A lot of time, money and effort, skill and professionalism. But not a scraping on what's involved for V8 supercars, etc.

The majority of vehicles regularly competing will not be daily drivers i'd imagine.

That's my understanding of things anyway.

[MissDrew]

What aren't all the 4x4's in vic close enough to being the same as it is with Vic's crap tyre size limit at 99% of events. They at least all look the same and thats one of the reasons why I do limited number of vicy events as they are just so boring to look at.

I hate things all being the same it just so good dam boring.

Variety is the spice of life. How boring would life be if all houses were the same, if all clothes were the same, if all women were the same.

No matter what you do, bar taking over controll of some peoples cheque books you will all ways have people that find a way to spend big bucks top help them be at or near the top. People with money will spend up more on maintance and there for straight up have a huge advantage.

[krimnl]

I have spent a few days putting some things down on the laptop.
will post something up soon for comments.

this isnt going to be crash and bash amature racing. this will be full on racing in very capable cars . they will just be more limited as to what mods you can do.

some people will use their daily drivers , others will build a car for comps only. and sure some people will be able to afford better maintenance but at the end of the day it will still be a shit load cheaper and will be competitive

[Dzltec]

Im definately interested. I have big plans for my na td42 high revving engine.

[MissDrew]

4x4 comps isn't big enough for a controlled type of event. Not one that is limited to 1 type of 4x4.

Shore make it all controlled but open it up to all makes, will make it much better as then there is varity, also opens up the number of people that can enter.

Don't know about you but I badly think victoria needs more varity when it comes to 4x4's and what has caused this is stupid limited rules at the comps down this way.

[grimbo]

4x4 comps isn't big enough for a controlled type of event. Not one that is limited to 1 type of 4x4.

Shore make it all controlled but open it up to all makes, will make it much better as then there is varity, also opens up the number of people that can enter.

Don't know about you but I badly think victoria needs more varity when it comes to 4x4's and what has caused this is stupid limited rules at the comps down this way.

it needs more variety in the type of events not just variety within the winch challenges which all it seems to be. We need trials and tuff truck style events as well.

[MissDrew]

OPen the rules up in winch challenges and watch the type of competing 4x4`s change rite before your eyes.

Yes vic needs other types of events, it also needs other types of built 4x4`s to make the other type of events wearth while running. Its slightly a case of which comes first the chicken or the egg

[Ruffy]

OPen the rules up in winch challenges and watch the type of competing 4x4`s change rite before your eyes.

Yes vic needs other types of events, it also needs other types of built 4x4`s to make the other type of events wearth while running. Its slightly a case of which comes first the chicken or the egg

Slightly off topic




Darren have you got a rough idea of tyre prices????

[MissDrew]

OPen the rules up in winch challenges and watch the type of competing 4x4`s change rite before your eyes.

Yes vic needs other types of events, it also needs other types of built 4x4`s to make the other type of events wearth while running. Its slightly a case of which comes first the chicken or the egg

Slightly off topic




Darren have you got a rough idea of tyre prices????

No its not, I`m saying open the rules up in Vicy comps NOT tighten them up as this class would be doing Doing this sort of class is only going to keep vicy rigs all the bloody same, BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I can see it going bad, if not in the 1st year in the 2nd or 3rd as there just isn`t enough to support it year in year

[TRobbo]

Personally I agree with imposing vehicle restrictions for many reasons and this sounds like a great idea. GQ racing would be interesting in terms of showcasing driver and navi skill but would possibly need to be run as part of an existing style comp.
It appears to me the comp scene is starting to make a natural split now anyways. Some of the teams in CCDA Challenge class continue to push to rules and the cost in r&d in their vehicles is getting obscene. Others see the development and feel obligated to try and keep up. These guys now are feeling the financial pain of all this and are looking for a cheaper option. The ccda trophy class is there for that but hasn't yet taken off, perhaps it is still a bit to liberal in modifications allowed. GQ racing could be an answer.

GUTS you talk about opening up the rules - in general terms what are you talking about here and what do you expect to see result? Are you looking for tuff truck style tracks and trucks down south? Do we have the properties with the right terrain for that?

[MissDrew]

GUTS you talk about opening up the rules - in general terms what are you talking about here and what do you expect to see result? Are you looking for tuff truck style tracks and trucks down south? Do we have the properties with the right terrain for that?

This class would be opened up to more people if the mods level is as said but is its opened up to all makes of 4x4`s. As far as open up the rules for this event goes this is what I mean.

I am not against this class totaly but I don`t think it will servive on its own as a stand allow event. Make it another class in CCDA and then yeah it will go ok. But ateco and vic winch etc only run one class so whats the point of CCDA having different classes. OBC is the only one that I know of that runs both challenge and trophy (please point other events out to me if there are any, we`re only taking vicy and winch challenge type events here)

If you go to an ateco, vic winch, even the pursuit 95% of the competing rigs look the same, they are all running tha same tyre, same height suspension lift, most are either swb or cut down wagons that just end up looking the same as a cab chassi. About the only real differance is the colour of paint. It is just so boring. Most of this is because of limiting tyre size to 36 inches and the reason behind having done this is makes it more affordable (its done the opposite) and more level playing field (well it is if you can afford $10+ odd thousand for a motor and another 10+g for susenpension)

Remove the tyre limit or atleast allow class with bigger and you`ll see people spend it on bigger tyres rather then bigger motors. You`ll get people thinking they can get higher up the score cards because they have more clearance bla bla bla.

You go to events up around sydney and the differance in rigs is eye opening if you`ve never been up there before. Everywhere you look you are seeing new ideas, some good some bad. People are more into rigs as they are different to the rest. The whole event atmosphere of the events is just so different because there is so much to look at.

Oh and the spectator numbers are way higher.


Dam I hate trying to write what I mean, I never have been good at it

[GQTRBO]

Personally I agree with imposing vehicle restrictions for many reasons and this sounds like a great idea. GQ racing would be interesting in terms of showcasing driver and navi skill but would possibly need to be run as part of an existing style comp.
It appears to me the comp scene is starting to make a natural split now anyways. Some of the teams in CCDA Challenge class continue to push to rules and the cost in r&d in their vehicles is getting obscene. Others see the development and feel obligated to try and keep up. These guys now are feeling the financial pain of all this and are looking for a cheaper option. The ccda trophy class is there for that but hasn't yet taken off, perhaps it is still a bit to liberal in modifications allowed. GQ racing could be an answer.

Couldn't agree with you anymore Robbo.

Gut's I think your missing the idea of this style of competition/Class. 90% of the Challenge class vehicles are GQ's anyway. Limiting vehicles to the level of GQ class will ultimatley make it more affordable for everybody. That's the main aim here. It won't be boring at all. Infact I think it will be completely the opposite!!!!! It will be purely decided on driver & navigator skill. NOT the amount of money spent. If you let people spend more money on tyres then it's not an equal competition.

Plus how do you know it won't work??? It's never been done before!!! From the amount of positive comments on here, it will!!!!!

Darren, we should put all this on paper and put it to the CCDA at the next meeting!!!

[MissDrew]

People with money will allways find a way to spend up big within the rules, you will never rule that out.

Like I said as another class running with trophy and challenge it will do fine, as a stand alone event it will not.

Why does it have to be only 1 make and model?
What about the people that have cruisers and rangies, GU's even for that matter?

[gqpete]

People with money will allways find a way to spend up big within the rules, you will never rule that out.

Like I said as another class running with trophy and challenge it will do fine, as a stand alone event it will not.

Why does it have to be only 1 make and model?
What about the people that have cruisers and rangies, GU's even for that matter?

cause we are saying that we want fair racing with one brand of race car, not against efi 4.5 cruisers or 4.8 gu's or i didnt realise my turbo deisel had 185rwkw, thought it was stock. if we allow that then why not allow my 240rwkw turbo petrol. back to cheque book racing, the line has to be drawn and it has.

[krimnl]

Personally I agree with imposing vehicle restrictions for many reasons and this sounds like a great idea. GQ racing would be interesting in terms of showcasing driver and navi skill but would possibly need to be run as part of an existing style comp.
It appears to me the comp scene is starting to make a natural split now anyways. Some of the teams in CCDA Challenge class continue to push to rules and the cost in r&d in their vehicles is getting obscene. Others see the development and feel obligated to try and keep up. These guys now are feeling the financial pain of all this and are looking for a cheaper option. The ccda trophy class is there for that but hasn't yet taken off, perhaps it is still a bit to liberal in modifications allowed. GQ racing could be an answer.

Couldn't agree with you anymore Robbo.

Gut's I think your missing the idea of this style of competition/Class. 90% of the Challenge class vehicles are GQ's anyway. Limiting vehicles to the level of GQ class will ultimatley make it more affordable for everybody. That's the main aim here. It won't be boring at all. Infact I think it will be completely the opposite!!!!! It will be purely decided on driver & navigator skill. NOT the amount of money spent. If you let people spend more money on tyres then it's not an equal competition.

Plus how do you know it won't work??? It's never been done before!!! From the amount of positive comments on here, it will!!!!!

Darren, we should put all this on paper and put it to the CCDA at the next meeting!!!

Stew , I have been typing my ideas up on the laptop every spare moment i get , bit hard to devote to much time to it. i have a business to run aswell. but it is happening. i have spoken to a few potential sponsors and had great feedback, meeting was tonight but i couldnt make it. will be armed for the next one.

Guts , we are planning on running this class along side others. not create a total new event. almost everyone i have spoken to has said that the 2 classes on offer are to close and to big a jump from the ordinary 4B . this will not only be entry level it will be something that everyone can enter and be competitive. as for your concerns on just throwing money at them , there is only so much you can do within the rules that are being written , and all further mods have to be submitted in writing for approval, if its not something everyone can achieve it wont be allowed. simple as that.

if you have any good ideas for addition to the rules post it up or PM or email me at krimnlracing@optusnet.com.au , but dont email saying to run other cars or other engines as this has been decided.


this is a way to make things fair, why should my turbo petrol MWB with king suspension be running in the same class as a std petrol GQ wagon with 35 tyres & a modified winch , current rules say they should!

[MissDrew]

Going to be funny to see who many events allow for more then 1 class to be run. This class would need its own extra tracks at even vic winch.

If you`re only going to run carbie GQ`s why not Carbie 80 series aswell. Its all the same. The 80 petrol carbies are only 4lt not 4.2 like Gq`s. Bot hare coiled bla bla bla. I can not see why it has to be only shit box GQ`s. I don`t really care that much as I`ll never comp in it, for that matter unlikely to compete in any winch challenge again, well maybe the odd one here and there

[TRobbo]

The Ateco this year is open to challenge and trophy class and if the interest is there for other classes then they would be considered as well.
Unfortunately at this stage we only have 2 trophy class entries so that class is unlikely to run in 2007.
From what I understand of the mods being considered acceptable for gq racing then they will still be able to compete on the same tracks, sure they will be slower and may need a little more winching but they can still run on the same tracks.

[grimbo]

at the moment with the winch challenge events you can enter a vehicle just like what is being described. The events aren't playing for sheep stations are they more a bit of bragging rights.

Why not a standard class like what is being proposed but for all vehciles. Then develop an event series that has a winch challenge event, then a trials style event, then a tuff truck style event. This way you can't mod the vehicle to suit one style of event, it keeps interest in the series as it presents a series of challenges and it opens it up to many people as the range of vehicles is catered for but also a range of driving styles. Not everyone who wants to compete wants to do winch challenge type events.

[krimnl]

at the moment with the winch challenge events you can enter a vehicle just like what is being described. The events aren't playing for sheep stations are they more a bit of bragging rights.

Why not a standard class like what is being proposed but for all vehciles. Then develop an event series that has a winch challenge event, then a trials style event, then a tuff truck style event. This way you can't mod the vehicle to suit one style of event, it keeps interest in the series as it presents a series of challenges and it opens it up to many people as the range of vehicles is catered for but also a range of driving styles. Not everyone who wants to compete wants to do winch challenge type events.

yep , thats great but someone needs to run & organise them , Pete & myself are trying to get this off the ground . we cant do them all . this is what we have researched and believe would be a great addition .
someone could put together a std class or a tuff truck ect. thats more comps in vic

[sierrajim]

Is there enough time at current events for more cars to be run through?

Throw another class into Vicwinch and the number of cars would be massive, how would they all get through each stage?

[Davidh]

Regarding winches, obviously the winch drum unmodified, 6hp Warn motor.
What about solenoids and batteries? Open as long as it's 12v? eg. I can run 6x1000cca's parallel?
Breathers ok? Bracing? Brake shaft mod? Alternators?