Notice: We request that you don't just set up a new account at this time if you are a previous user. If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
Recovery:If you cannot access your old email address and don't remember your password, please click here to log a change of email address so you can do a password reset.
Strange Rover wrote: I would love this sport to be a technical driving event and not a race against the clock. I also think that racing with a spotter running around in front and behind a car is a dangerous thing.
Sam
this was one of my complaints, tony rolled and later in the day i tripped and he almost ran me over, competitors should have been made aware of first aid attendants, i would assume that there was one there?
But,,,, i think with the rapidness that the sport is growing they need to be more identifable.
Spotter safety is a tough one. In many cases the situation isnt dangerous until at the very last second when you think, shiat the spotter almost got run over there. With the pressure of the time on the competition with spotters running over irregular rocks around a moving vehicle, safety is a hard thing to control.
I think that here are provisions in the current rules where officials can tell teams if they are doing something dangerous and if the breach is serious enough then they are DNFed.
I feel that as the competition is developed then safety will improve cause people will think about it a bit more as they are competing.
Maybe there should be an official whose only responsibiltiy is to enforce all the safety requirements while the team is on course. They would move around with the team and yell abuse at the spotter and driver if they do anything wrong and apply penality points where they see fit. If this was the case then you could also have better, more specific, more enforceable safety rules that are penalisable and the safety official can tell the teams as they are going along when they are in breach.
Some examples of specific rules could be :
-touching a moving vehicle
-being within 3 metres (or some measurement?)of the front or rear of the rig (whether its moving or not)
-if the spotter has to be closer than the 3m then the driver must have both hands visably off the steering wheel to acknowledge that the spotter is in a dangerous position (they do a similar thing in winch challenges when the navigator gets in the car and doesent have a seat belt on yet) this way officials can see that the driver is knows where the spotter is.
-
When any of these rules are breached the team is told so on the spot as the breach is occuring so they learn straight away.
I think that something like this could work very well.
I think the safety of spotters is definetly something that needs to be looked at. All it needs is for a slip of the foot onto the accelerator/clutch and suddenly the car lurches and collects a spotter. In one of the rockcrawling series in the US one of the spotters has had a portion of his leg amputated as he was too close to the action and the vehicle spat a rock out at velocity and crushed his foot/shin. Sam's suggestions make sense. The use of straps needs to be better regulated, having spotters wrap a snatch strap around their arms for better purchase and then bracing themselves. They will not be able to stop a vehicle going over and run the danger of being dragged with the vehicle into a dangerous position. Alot of the US guys have been using a setup similar to waterskiiers with a rope and handle that is easy to hold onto but more importantly easy to let go of.
My spotter ( Darren ) No 1 spotter at XRCC ( has the trophy to prove it) at TTC after 1 stage had swamper print down his leg. Shyt that was close.
He told me that all he could see was a Swamper spinning around head height. Saftey Saftey Saftey.
When wearing a helmet and having a intercom between you and the spotter (some teams) it may be hard to hear the official. Also visual warnings may not work because under pressure and when excited vision can become restricted especially when you are focused on someone for assistance (spotter). This isn't restricted to just rock crawling it can occur in many activity's where concerntration levels are high......Something that is attention getting be it a hand held hooter or a whistle blast will grab the attention of the team.....and if there is any doubt then trial it to find out.......
I have seen some officials that when they can't get the attention of the driver they go closer to the truck to get attention....I remember one truck a suzi on the Mini Wirrabi just before he nearly rolled there was an official standing on the inside of the course and he spoke to his spotter who was about to touch the truck on the inside of a potential roll and thus put himself in danger too. In hind sight what could of happened is as the spotter moved to the downside of the truck he was warned the he was about to enter what is considered a dangerous zone and thus move. How do you control this as things do happen fast....Clear instructions to the competitiors of what is considered dangerous, downhill side of the truck, 3 metres front and rear when moving, truck is only to be by passed on the uphill side and that rock stacking is out (I assume this is a rule) then it makes a safer environment the above isn't rocket science and I am not saying anything nothing new. The single official whose sole purpose is the safety of the run. Sometimes officials become spectators and forget what they are there for, a hard one to figure out but if it is considered then steps can be taken to focus people back on the job when things get a bit pear shaped.....
overkill wrote:How about making all the straps a standard length with a handle Just a thought.
That is a good idea I saw one team use the winch and then put the slack cable through the window that was gone from the rollover on the Staurday. The winching needs to belike in the winch challenges. These blokes didn't have experience so I suppose they will learn fast though.
Whats wrong with putting a winch cable through an open window whether it be a side window or a busted window. When they set up the winch they did every thing they were ment to, they indicated to the crowd that there were about to winch, had a winch blanket and winched correctly.
How the hell would you know how much experience a driver or team has, i know for a fact that Ruff would have a lot more experince ( in EXTREME situations than half the people on this site) and they do know how to use a winch.
Why does the winching need to be like the winch challange.
If you want winching thats what the winch challenge is set up for, if you want guys who don't use there winch every time the get nearly stuck and refuse to use it only as a last resort than XRCC would be that event.
Once again what was un safe about the winch procedure Ruff used?
I have seen plenty of unsafe procedures in the winch challenge series aswell, its bound to happen at some stage.
XRCC will not allow any breaches of safety as per rules. You mentioned that there are unsafe winch practices in the XTREME, possible, but I do know that those teams that do it pay the price of a penalty for their effort.
SAFETY COMES FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
XRCC RULES:- I will be releasing them & Round1 schedule next week on XRCC web site.
So if your game, can handle what I have got to offer & operate by my set of RULES come and give it a go.
Regards MMM
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
overkill wrote:How about making all the straps a standard length with a handle Just a thought.
That is a good idea I saw one team use the winch and then put the slack cable through the window that was gone from the rollover on the Staurday. The winching needs to belike in the winch challenges. These blokes didn't have experience so I suppose they will learn fast though.
The rollover had nothing to do with the window being down it is still there it was just wound down.There was nothing in the rules to state the cable had to be placed in any position at all after winching.
If we were to set this event up in anyway like a winch challange i think myself and most everybody that plan to compete in these events will be very disapointed.
And as for experiance you dont even know me or anything about me and if you think you are better at this sport, than i challenge you to come to Logan Village with Your piece of shiat jeep and wheel where we wheel if you can even get where we go or are not to much of a pansy to try i will let you call me inexperianced as much as you like till then i think you should be watching what you say.
Ohh and your dad and Pete are welcome too if you need them to hold your hand.
overkill wrote:How about making all the straps a standard length with a handle Just a thought.
That is a good idea I saw one team use the winch and then put the slack cable through the window that was gone from the rollover on the Staurday. The winching needs to belike in the winch challenges. These blokes didn't have experience so I suppose they will learn fast though.
So you spent the weekend at landcruiser smoking crack and seeing things, the cable went through a side window that was wound down, not smashed out.
You make the statement that we "didnt have experience", what do base this on, fact or personal opinion? Where is your proof or evidence to support this statement?
Cmon Jeepmad4x4 take up the boys offer of a "run" maybe your awesome jeep might want to challenge some lowly stock suzukis (mine and V8zukis') before you work your way up to the poor hilux's, of course only if your daddy will let you, but then maybe we might not be experienced enough for someone like you to be seen with....
bring it.. or are you scared of breakin your mums car????
we will accept any offer, any time, any where......
Hey Ruff, you live in Logan Village?? Sweet ! I'm coming up to Jimboomba on the 4th of Jan for 2 weeks to visit Heathers family, would be more than happy to accept that gauntlet and go for a wheel with you guys, will have my 31s on by then too (watch out!) hehehe, I might even make it to the start of the track!
any time ,any place within my budget constraints .people r quick to criticise any time someone come up with a different idea or they dont like what they see. to criticise ruff for poor handling of the cable is childish ,where were u and your team your effort at xrcc was that good it didnt even rate a mention . SO AS WE ALL R SAYING PUT UP OR SHUT UP BRING YOUR TRUCK TO CRUISER PK AND WE CAN ALL SEE HOW GOOD U R . I WONT MIND A BIT IF U BEAT MEIN THE COMP, NOR WILL ANYONE ELSE SO LONG AS U SHOW UP AND TRY TO GET TO THE START GATE WITH OUT USING YOUR WINCH OR OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE.when u have built a truck worthy of competeing then then u can hang shiat on every one
FOR SALE hilux parts all models
have most parts available from early to late
call mick 0415156693
what a formative time that was .. look how far the sport has progressed since then ..
" If governments are involved in the covering up the knowledge of aliens, Then they are doing a much better job of it than they do of everything else "
I saw one team use the winch and then put the slack cable through the window that was gone from the rollover on the Staurday. The winching needs to belike in the winch challenges. These blokes didn't have experience so I suppose they will learn fast though.
