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extractors anyone
extractors anyone
R.I.P. Darryl "DAZZA" Mutch 02/08/1978 - 26/08/2012 aged 34 years ... You will be missed my little brother.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39190&start=150
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39190&start=150
Can they sell me the versions for an auto 1300 sierra? apparently these ones are only for a manual 
They do look quite nice though.
Steve.
They do look quite nice though.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
has anyone used these?
i will be up for a new zaust system soon - got quoted $750 inc fitting. $500 if i provided the extractors myself.
does this sound like a good price?
i will be up for a new zaust system soon - got quoted $750 inc fitting. $500 if i provided the extractors myself.
does this sound like a good price?
'93 sierra WT, 2" BL, 3" TG springs, 2" zorst, CD, 235's
To do: xtractrs, bigger tyres, gears, etc
See members for pics/info
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1368130.php#1368130
To do: xtractrs, bigger tyres, gears, etc
See members for pics/info
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1368130.php#1368130
oh ok thanks.WasabiPimpNinja wrote:Best size I would think is 1 3/4" unless you plan to do more to the engine. I went for 2" because I intend on supercharging in the very near future.
did u notice any loss in power goin to the 2 inch ? with the stock 1.3 ? how does it sound ?
91 SWB sierra, 2in spring lift, 2in BL 32 simex ETs, Series 4 RH gearing.
[url=http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110288&highlight=]My build up thread[/url]
[url=http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110288&highlight=]My build up thread[/url]
No powerloss. Infact noticed quite a gain, but that's because I went from a cracked stock exhaust manifold and stock system to extractors etc. The power loss between 1 3/4" and 2" would be negligable I'm thinking, but all of it would be down low where you need it. You wouldn't be creating the back pressure needed and the engine suffers because of it.
The noise, well it sounds like a fart really. I guess it's better than the asthmatic fart that it sounded like before. I've only ever heard 3 exhausts that sounded good. One was on a $500k race Porsche, one was an Audi A8 Pace car at the 2002 Barbagello V8 Super Car Round, and the other was on my mates AUII XR8 ute, sounded great but was inefficient as all hell. If you want noise, just put a tip on it. I dont care what mine sounds like so I didnt bother
The noise, well it sounds like a fart really. I guess it's better than the asthmatic fart that it sounded like before. I've only ever heard 3 exhausts that sounded good. One was on a $500k race Porsche, one was an Audi A8 Pace car at the 2002 Barbagello V8 Super Car Round, and the other was on my mates AUII XR8 ute, sounded great but was inefficient as all hell. If you want noise, just put a tip on it. I dont care what mine sounds like so I didnt bother
As far as I'm aware, a certain amount of back pressure is used to help the cylinders back down once they reach TDC. Back pressure is not really needed, as proved by starting an engine without any exhaust manifold at all. But with the correct amount of pressure it should run better.
I know you are going to say "But when it's at TDC, atleast one of the other cylinders will be on the power stroke and that's easily enough to keep the rotation". This is true, but a properly tuned exhaust, with correct amount of back pressure, should run an engine with more efficiency and power than an engine with no back pressure.
This is what I've been told by quite a few people and makes sense to me.
If you can prove otherwise I'll happily listen
*Attempts to dodge said set up
*
I know you are going to say "But when it's at TDC, atleast one of the other cylinders will be on the power stroke and that's easily enough to keep the rotation". This is true, but a properly tuned exhaust, with correct amount of back pressure, should run an engine with more efficiency and power than an engine with no back pressure.
This is what I've been told by quite a few people and makes sense to me.
If you can prove otherwise I'll happily listen
*Attempts to dodge said set up
*
Sounds expensive to me. mine cost 200 from extractors back in perth.cjdeane10 wrote:has anyone used these?
i will be up for a new zaust system soon - got quoted $750 inc fitting. $500 if i provided the extractors myself.
does this sound like a good price?
Extractors look ok. u may want to try get a set of wildcat ones from mettlams exhaust in midland. My vit ones cost me 180 from there
Nic
[url=http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?p=930942#930942&highlight=]Zook[/url]
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
Yeah the quote was from Suzi-store in Midland... they arent the cheapest, so yeah, i am probably getting stooged.
But the crappy, original system should get me over the pits - i just bought a $5 chrome tip to cover up the old rusted out one!
(p.s. i am dreaming at the moment as Rego is the main thing i need - zaust will come later).
But the crappy, original system should get me over the pits - i just bought a $5 chrome tip to cover up the old rusted out one!
(p.s. i am dreaming at the moment as Rego is the main thing i need - zaust will come later).
'93 sierra WT, 2" BL, 3" TG springs, 2" zorst, CD, 235's
To do: xtractrs, bigger tyres, gears, etc
See members for pics/info
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1368130.php#1368130
To do: xtractrs, bigger tyres, gears, etc
See members for pics/info
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1368130.php#1368130
Shouldnt need custom extractors but yeh when u get the zaust done, get them to tuck it up much as possible. mine is and is great, not had any dramas with it. all above the chassis rail.ofr57 wrote:how much would be custom extractors.... soon going to putting a exhaust system in but i want it tucked up as possible
[url=http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?p=930942#930942&highlight=]Zook[/url]
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
This is not really a smack down but I see so often someone saying how you need some backpressure or it will lose power. Normally it comes from them spouting what someone else has said who is just repeating it from someone else etc. etc.
Weighty books are written on this subject by far more knowledgeable people than me but basically an engine is just a pump. How many pumps do you know of that need back pressure to run at their best? What happens is that when people use too large a dia. pipe for the application they do lose power but it is not from removing back pressure. Back pressure is limiting your potential power. What happens is that the exhaust gases cool down and lose their velocity and cylinder scavenging is reduced. What you are aiming for is to find the point where back pressure has been relieved but the gas velocity hasn't dropped and the scavenging waves are timed correctly. Headers or extractors are another area where there is a common misconception that 4 into 1 equal length headers are no good for low down performance. This is not correct, although the Tri-Y design is meant to be better as an all around design for spread of power and bottom to mid-range it is not always the case. Poorly designed Tri-Y's can be outperformed by well matched 4 to 1's. Just because somebody has designed and is selling it as ideal for your car doesn't mean it is the best option for your car. Most people will just buy whatever is the cheapest available. Things to consider are the header pipe lengths and dia., the collector length and dia., the collector cone etc. Low rpm power though is not really subject to scavenging as you can get multiple waves during the same stroke but more based around compression and the cam/s control of the valve timing. There are a lot more factors at play here than just those that I have mentioned but it gives you a little more insight into what is going on.
Weighty books are written on this subject by far more knowledgeable people than me but basically an engine is just a pump. How many pumps do you know of that need back pressure to run at their best? What happens is that when people use too large a dia. pipe for the application they do lose power but it is not from removing back pressure. Back pressure is limiting your potential power. What happens is that the exhaust gases cool down and lose their velocity and cylinder scavenging is reduced. What you are aiming for is to find the point where back pressure has been relieved but the gas velocity hasn't dropped and the scavenging waves are timed correctly. Headers or extractors are another area where there is a common misconception that 4 into 1 equal length headers are no good for low down performance. This is not correct, although the Tri-Y design is meant to be better as an all around design for spread of power and bottom to mid-range it is not always the case. Poorly designed Tri-Y's can be outperformed by well matched 4 to 1's. Just because somebody has designed and is selling it as ideal for your car doesn't mean it is the best option for your car. Most people will just buy whatever is the cheapest available. Things to consider are the header pipe lengths and dia., the collector length and dia., the collector cone etc. Low rpm power though is not really subject to scavenging as you can get multiple waves during the same stroke but more based around compression and the cam/s control of the valve timing. There are a lot more factors at play here than just those that I have mentioned but it gives you a little more insight into what is going on.
[quote="4WD Stuff"]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
Not sure on the "performance" side but in my swb rag top I had extractors into 2" with "sports" muffler. At highway speeds I would wear ear plugs and still pull up with ringing ears. Now in my lwb rag top I have extractors into 1 3/4 with a quiet free flowin muffler. The weber intake easily roars loader then the exhuast.
Just my experience and something to think about.
Nik
Just my experience and something to think about.
Nik
The faster you get the air in and the faster you get it out = power at the wheels .
un unrestricted intake plus a good flowing exhaust can achieve more power , but backpressure is important in a normally aspirated situation as explained in cj's post , heres a better way to explain it it laymans terms rather than technical jargon....
at some stage of the cycle you will have what is called valve overlap , this is when the exhaust valve is still partially open and the intake valve is starting to open to suck in a fresh charge of air and fuel , without any backpressure you will lose some of the air/fuel charge out through the exhaust valve decreasing the amount/volume of fuel/air that can be turned into usable power.
with forced induction , eg turbo or supercharging , this isnt an issue so you can go as big as you want.
I actually lost .5 of a second on the 1/4 mile from going too large of an exhaust system.
in a sierra 1 3/4 is the maximum size you would want to go.
un unrestricted intake plus a good flowing exhaust can achieve more power , but backpressure is important in a normally aspirated situation as explained in cj's post , heres a better way to explain it it laymans terms rather than technical jargon....
at some stage of the cycle you will have what is called valve overlap , this is when the exhaust valve is still partially open and the intake valve is starting to open to suck in a fresh charge of air and fuel , without any backpressure you will lose some of the air/fuel charge out through the exhaust valve decreasing the amount/volume of fuel/air that can be turned into usable power.
with forced induction , eg turbo or supercharging , this isnt an issue so you can go as big as you want.
I actually lost .5 of a second on the 1/4 mile from going too large of an exhaust system.
in a sierra 1 3/4 is the maximum size you would want to go.
i think that by fitting a 1 3/4" for a standard car or 2" exhaust for worked motor you get alot more of a gain than by fitting extractors, mind you if the exhaust if press bent then go 2" for a standard car and spend your $200 on somethig else. on my 1600 i would say extractors gave me
1-2 bhp tops
1-2 bhp tops
_____
[olllllo]
[olllllo]
OK, can't help my self.
If the pipe at the end of the extractors is 1 3/4. Why would you go to a 2" pipe after that ?
Going bigger after the Extractors will slow the gases in the pipe as they expand to fill the larger pipe. Keeping it the same size all the way through maintains the velocity (speed) of the gasses, thus expelling it fast/better.
That all said, unless you use mandrel bends. 2"with crush bends, would probably work better over a crushed bent 1 3/4 system. But you get the idear.
If the pipe at the end of the extractors is 1 3/4. Why would you go to a 2" pipe after that ?
Going bigger after the Extractors will slow the gases in the pipe as they expand to fill the larger pipe. Keeping it the same size all the way through maintains the velocity (speed) of the gasses, thus expelling it fast/better.
That all said, unless you use mandrel bends. 2"with crush bends, would probably work better over a crushed bent 1 3/4 system.
But you get the idear.'2001 Disco td5
'90 Maruti Ute 1Ltr Lwb
Experience is something you don't get, until just after you need it.
'90 Maruti Ute 1Ltr Lwb
Experience is something you don't get, until just after you need it.
Once you get past the extractors and the cat assuming that they are matched to your engine setup it doesn't really matter although there is a theory that you could step down the size as the gas cools to try and keep the velocity up.
The 1.3 and 1.6 need attending to on both the intake and exhaust for maximum benefits and getting the right cam in the middle for your needs is even better. Doing half a job will not give the full benefit.
The 1.3 and 1.6 need attending to on both the intake and exhaust for maximum benefits and getting the right cam in the middle for your needs is even better. Doing half a job will not give the full benefit.
[quote="4WD Stuff"]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
It is my understanding too that past the collector on a set of extractors or down stream of the exhaust turbine of a turbo engine, you can't be too big.
the scavenging effect is a result of extractor design. Once past the collector it's all over, although collector design and diameter is important.
Bear in mind though that as pipe diameter increases, so does noise, fitment issues and weight, as an example, 2.25 and 2.5" exhaust tube is heavier wall than 2" and much heavier for the same length.
Steve.
the scavenging effect is a result of extractor design. Once past the collector it's all over, although collector design and diameter is important.
Bear in mind though that as pipe diameter increases, so does noise, fitment issues and weight, as an example, 2.25 and 2.5" exhaust tube is heavier wall than 2" and much heavier for the same length.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
All of them, you know shit about pumps. All pumps have what is called a pump curve, too much flow not enough pressure = bad, too much pressure not enough flow = bad.cj wrote:basically an engine is just a pump. How many pumps do you know of that need back pressure to run at their best?
Yes engines like a small amount of back pressure to prevent valve issues.
;)
To an extent yes but the sudden drop in airflow when going from the collector to a too large pipe could directly effect the airflow of the air inside the secondaries/primaries.Gwagensteve wrote:It is my understanding too that past the collector on a set of extractors or down stream of the exhaust turbine of a turbo engine, you can't be too big.
the scavenging effect is a result of extractor design. Once past the collector it's all over, although collector design and diameter is important.
Bear in mind though that as pipe diameter increases, so does noise, fitment issues and weight, as an example, 2.25 and 2.5" exhaust tube is heavier wall than 2" and much heavier for the same length.
Steve.
But in the end nothing sounds worse than an exhaust that is too big.
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