Differential Lockers and "crawler" transfer case g

Post by **andoy** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:18 pm

Good cheer gents.

Looking for info on differential lockers for the front and back of my 1991 Feroza F300. The Detroit Lockers part no. mentioned in WARF didn't check out ok in California. Non from ARB too.

Would appreciate some help.

Post by **MightyMouse** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:30 pm

Easy - there isn't anything available either in lockers or gears. There is a company in Germany that supposedly does a rear lock - but they never responded to any of my emails so that's not a good sign

Near as you will get is the factory rear LSD fitted to a very few vehicles and they arn't easy to come by and are a poor substitute for a locker anyway.

So its custom made stuff or nothing

Post by **meece4x4** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:40 am

The rear LSD are pretty crap, great up until you *really* need it then will fail you. the clutches in the LSD dont handle a hammering

I bought my Feroza 4 months ago with a rear LSD ... when I bought it the LSD was working but after only 4 months of offroad use the clutches have shagged themselfs and it's now no better than a open diff.

what a lot of people do is to weld the front diff to lock that and leave the rear open, I havnt done it yet on mine (only because Im recovering from major surgry and cant lift anything for a few months) but I am going to do it once im able to. from talking to people on here and other websites the Feroza/Rockys go well with this combo.

I would maybe sugest that if you are going to go this way get another front diffhead from somewhere and lincon locker that one ... that way if you dont like it you still have the open diff to put back into it.

Just DONT weld the rear diff ... it makes the Fez way too skippy on the open road and is prob illegal to (it is here in NZ anyway)

cheers meece

Post by **guido1985** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:01 am

its not legal in QLD to lock a diff perminently but its a little hard for them to proove as you don't really drive around with the front locked on the black sh*t. CIG lockers is the only way you will lock your diff and its easier to pull a car out of the mud or over rocks that it is to push it. Have fun.

Chris

Post by **andoy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:11 pm

guido1985 wrote:its not legal in QLD to lock a diff perminently but its a little hard for them to proove as you don't really drive around with the front locked on the black sh*t. CIG lockers is the only way you will lock your diff and its easier to pull a car out of the mud or over rocks that it is to push it. Have fun.

Chris

Thanks Chris. What does CIG lockers mean please? (My rig has an OEM LSD in the rear diff).

Post by **guido1985** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:17 pm

its a term we use for welding ones diff on the two way not to arouse suspision.

Chris

Post by **andoy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:42 pm

guido1985 wrote:its a term we use for welding ones diff on the two way not to arouse suspision.

Chris

Oh I see. In that case, where do do the weld on the differential in this process, i.e. which part/s do you weld?

Thanks.

Post by **nebivedu** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:13 pm

MightyMouse wrote:Easy - there isn't anything available either in lockers or gears. There is a company in Germany that supposedly does a rear lock - but they never responded to any of my emails so that's not a good sign

Can you write a company address and mail? I am from europe and they maybe can send a response. Then i will write it here.

Post by **want33s** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:32 pm

andoy wrote:
Oh I see. In that case, where do do the weld on the differential in this process, i.e. which part/s do you weld?

Thanks.

Here you go mate.... Nothing to it...
http://www.island4x4.com/4x4tech/axle/weldeddiff1/

Post by **andoy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:18 pm

want33s wrote:
andoy wrote:
Oh I see. In that case, where do do the weld on the differential in this process, i.e. which part/s do you weld?

Thanks.
Here you go mate.... Nothing to it...
http://www.island4x4.com/4x4tech/axle/weldeddiff1/

Neat! Does that mean that an LSD works with even fewer side gear valleys filled? Or does it work on a different mechanical principle.

I had also asked another forum member if the rear LSD on the Feroza will work infront (a mechanic told me the rear axle shaft diameter might be bigger than the front, hence front axle may be loose when coupled to the LSD. Any idea? Sorry to be bugging you on this.

Post by **MightyMouse** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:07 pm

Front diff is different to rear so the LSD won't transfer.

Post by **MightyMouse** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:19 pm

Neither of these companies responded to emails - I hope you have better luck.

http://www.taftdieselindonesia.com
http://www.ks-tuning.de/wj/vacuum.htm

If you manage to find a front locker PLEASE let me know.

Post by **steve_f20** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:04 am

MightyMouse wrote:Neither of these companies responded to emails - I hope you have better luck.

http://www.taftdieselindonesia.com
http://www.ks-tuning.de/wj/vacuum.htm

If you manage to find a front locker PLEASE let me know.

There are prices for both in the thread below on a european daihatsu forum,
http://www.daihatsu4x4.eu/viewtopic.php?t=388
The German one is 1278 euros before tax and shipping and for the Indonesian one the guy was quoted $1200 (US?) including shipping to Belguim/Holland, I don't think anyone there has one either though.
Steve

Post by **meece4x4** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:12 pm

steve_f20 wrote:
MightyMouse wrote:Neither of these companies responded to emails - I hope you have better luck.

http://www.taftdieselindonesia.com
http://www.ks-tuning.de/wj/vacuum.htm

If you manage to find a front locker PLEASE let me know.
There are prices for both in the thread below on a european daihatsu forum,
http://www.daihatsu4x4.eu/viewtopic.php?t=388
The German one is 1278 euros before tax and shipping and for the Indonesian one the guy was quoted $1200 (US?) including shipping to Belguim/Holland, I don't think anyone there has one either though.
Steve

ouch
think i will stick to a $9.95 packet of Arc welding rods

$1278 Euro is more than the Feroza are worth in New Zealand (I wouldnt expect to pay more than $3000 NZ for a late model one)

Post by **andoy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:40 pm

MightyMouse wrote:Front diff is different to rear so the LSD won't transfer.

Thanks. That eliminates this option.

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:23 am

want33s wrote:
andoy wrote:
Oh I see. In that case, where do do the weld on the differential in this process, i.e. which part/s do you weld?

Thanks.
Here you go mate.... Nothing to it...
http://www.island4x4.com/4x4tech/axle/weldeddiff1/

From the link i see that it want work as a 100% locker but as a 50 to one side and 50 to the other side. Or i am wrong i cant say if i am correct.

Post by **jav** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:29 am

50 + 50 = 100

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:55 am

i mean that when one wheel is on the air will steel run but the same speed with the other side thats is on ground.

Post by **meece4x4** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:39 am

ferozamaniac wrote: i mean that when one wheel is on the air will steel run but the same speed with the other side thats is on ground.

yup both wheels will still be turning even with one wheel in the air .... power is still being fed to the wheel on the ground, heaps better traction.

the two major downsides to a welded front diff

1 greater turning lock

2 much more chance of breaking a CV as power WONT be transfered to the wheel with least resistance.

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:04 am

So will that work better to the rear diff? So you mean welding the diff like on the pictures you make both weels to run with the same speed? Anyone who has done that to his rear diff?

Post by **MightyMouse** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:11 am

Have emailed Germany again.... no reply but its still possible.

TaftDiesel is Indonesia seems to be a club ( WTF... )

Have picked up a spare front diff - will take it to the transmission place a mate runs and get his opion on a locker conversion.

Of course anythings possible if your prepared to spend unlimited $$ ( which I'm not ) but will see whats possible.

Obviously any airlocker is going to be expensive so I'm sort of expecting a couple of grand ( un fitted, no compressor, change over, etc etc ) for a one off. Go and get an ARB unit fitted and is around $1800 so you have been well and truly warned.

However if its possible will let you know - it will be cheaper to get a few done - but lets be really blunt right up front, if you havn't got money burning a hole in your pocket then don't delude yourself - they are going to be expensive.

I'm only interested in a front locker as I already have a airlocked rear ( toyota ).

Post by **Newtothefourbeworld** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:13 am

from my understanding welding a diff . ("full stop") is illegal anyway but on 4x4's you can get away wiht the FRONT diff as its only in use offroad (or should only be in use) and as long as you a bit discrete it will be ok.

welding a rear diff will make your car unroadworthy and very illegal as driving on roads wont be easy. I went an drove a v8 for a day out at oran park with a solding rear axel (in effect a welded rear diff) and unless you were doping speed you were litterally skipping on th road when turning corners as the inner wheel has to make up for the extra travel etc......

therefore if you are thinking of welding your read diff consider your car offroad only!

Post by **MightyMouse** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:44 am

Yep "no diff" is illegal, but there is a hell of a difference between a Feroza and a V8 tourerer in terms of power / mass and traction.

Lots of zooks run welded rears or spools and whilst it isnt perfect it can be managed.

If you want to really use a Feroza off road, and cant do it any other way - then welding is a serious option, but it will change its on road manners and wear your tyres.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:36 am

i think that by the time you go through it you may as well convert to a hilux rear and use a proper locker so save on and off road ability

Post by **MightyMouse** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:47 am

I think you have missed out on previous posts and missed some details -

I already have a toyota based rear end and "propper" locker and reduction gears and auto and long travel front suspension etc etc - its the front diff that I am looking at as that what's currently limiting my Feroza.

The "Mouse" is a very different Feroza.....

Post by **stariondriver** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

hey guys sorry to butt in but has anyone gave any though to those phantom lock things? prety popular here in usa.

http://www.phantomgrip.com/how_it_works.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0098368693

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:41 pm

nah i was talking to andoy, sorry mouse i do know you have a well modified roza

Post by **andoy** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:32 pm

Newtothefourbeworld wrote:nah i was talking to andoy, sorry mouse i do know you have a well modified roza

Thanks gents for all the new info I've gotten from this thread.
More and more it looks like getting a spare front diff and having it weld-built up as described earlier is my better value for money option.

I usually get stuck now on trail with my front wheels so getting it locked to the extent possible with the side gear valley build-ups should work with the LSD I have on the rear.

But first I have to hunt for a spare front differential... whole assembly preferably, so switching will be easy. Wish me good luck.

Post by **want33s** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:02 pm

Now I've got you all thinking about welding your spider gears .....
Has anyone thought about doing a complete axle swap that includes a locker?
I know you guys won't like this but what about putting a pair of LADA NIVA diffs under a rocky....
Same stud pattern, Very close wheel track(width). Spools and lockers are available...

http://www.oppositelock.com/redesign/de ... 3&catID=14
The welding spider gears trick ONLY works with open centres... not LSD centres.. Sorry.

Post by **andoy** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:18 pm

want33s wrote:Now I've got you all thinking about welding your spider gears .....
Has anyone thought about doing a complete axle swap that includes a locker?
I know you guys won't like this but what about putting a pair of LADA NIVA diffs under a rocky....
Same stud pattern, Very close wheel track(width). Spools and lockers are available...
http://www.oppositelock.com/redesign/de ... 3&catID=14
The welding spider gears trick ONLY works with open centres... not LSD centres.. Sorry.

Clarification: Yup I plan to have a welded front diff in tandem with the rear diff with LSD. What do you think?

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Differential Lockers and "crawler" transfer case g

Differential Lockers and "crawler" transfer case g

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