Tough Dog RTC Dampers

[Nelso]

I just went and checked our sales figures on RTC's. We have sold over 1000 of these, and I reckon I could count the number of "comebacks" or gripes on one hand.
My guess is if it isnt working properly for you , it may be installed incorrectly (which is VERY easy to do).
If they were as crap as some say, we would be very busy processing warranty claims and refunds, but i cant even remember the last time one came back.
As Harro says, the new adjustable damper is the ducks nuts, maybe check it out?

Rick.

You wouldn't hear a lot of the complaints or problems as you didn't make the product so why bother you with its faults. I bypassed the store I bought mine from and went straight to the manufacturer with my problem as the store just sends it to them anyway. That didn't help me as they had the worst customer service I have ever encountered, but that's another story. (just stating a fact about how my case was handled, not implying they always have bad customer service as I have heard different from other people.)

What would you tell a customer that did bring one back just because they were unhappy with its performance? I can't see any store offering money back for an item that just didn't live up to the customers expectations. So what do people do? They don't bother taking it back because they know nothing will happen, but they do proceed to tell anyone and everyone what a waste of money the product is and how unhappy they were with it. Case in point, this thread.

I have had small and large RTC dampeners and was disappointed with both. A normal heavy duty dampener does a better job and costs less so I recommend to people who ask for opinions regarding them to ignore the advertising hype, save their money and get a normal steering dampener.

[Suspension Stuff]

Can someone explain what the spring is supposed to do? Self centering is a result of caster, a spring isn't going to make any substantial difference.

I have seen and driven a few cars with these on, but seriously don't understand the advantage except to add bling- If a spring was massively beneficial to the steering/damping action, it would have been done long ago by an oem. Just my opinion, but maybe I'm missing somehting about the function of the spring.

Steve.

An RTC damper is supposed to be set up so that when the steering is centred the spring is at rest, no compression, no tension.
Turning the steering wheel one direction compresses the spring, the other direction will stretch the spring, when you release the steering wheel the spring pressure is supposed to force the steering and front tyres back to the centre so that the spring is again at rest.

If you have enough positive caster, steering automatically returns to centre.

I fitted an RTC when my caster was not right and my car was wandering all over the road and had bad bump steer. The RTC helped only slightly to reduce bumpsteer, and I think it was only because the force from hitting a bump had to overcome not only a new damper but also the spring pressure before it could cause bumpsteer. This was the only advantage I found.

The RTC IMO did not stop the car wandering at all.

I found that as I steered the car into a corner more effort was required to steer because you have to overcome the spring pressure. The tighter the corner, the more the spring compresses or stretches so progressively more effort is required. This makes turning a 90deg corner or parking a BIATCH even with power steering.

I also found that when travelling in a straight line at road speeds, when the steering is more or less at centre, the spring is at rest and needs a few degrees of steering rotation before enough spring pressure is created to give any hint of returning to centre. So basically when you need the RTC function the most, the spring is in the positon where it is least able to provide any benefit.


I removed my RTC after I fixed up caster problems and the car feels a lot better to steer without it.

IMO RTC is a piss poor cover up of more serious steering problems.

I did not notice any advantage in having an RTC fitted for offroad driving either.

Id say people fit them for two reasons.

Misinformed that it will fix unrelated steering problems.(like me)

For the BLING factor and coz there mates all have em

Can I quote you? This is a well written and informative opinion.

Shane.

[ozrunner]

Seems to be horses for courses

4Runners have a very light power steering at speed so I fitted one of the first RTC's released over 10 years ago and wouldn't leave home without it

Cruising is now a dream and so much safer as steering wander due to any slight movement of the wheel is now non existent. It made a massive difference to cruising.

My original unit is still working perfect and the RTC assistance in 4wd use is also great so a huge thumbs up from me
.

[80's_delirious]

Can someone explain what the spring is supposed to do? Self centering is a result of caster, a spring isn't going to make any substantial difference.

I have seen and driven a few cars with these on, but seriously don't understand the advantage except to add bling- If a spring was massively beneficial to the steering/damping action, it would have been done long ago by an oem. Just my opinion, but maybe I'm missing somehting about the function of the spring.

Steve.

An RTC damper is supposed to be set up so that when the steering is centred the spring is at rest, no compression, no tension.
Turning the steering wheel one direction compresses the spring, the other direction will stretch the spring, when you release the steering wheel the spring pressure is supposed to force the steering and front tyres back to the centre so that the spring is again at rest.

If you have enough positive caster, steering automatically returns to centre.

I fitted an RTC when my caster was not right and my car was wandering all over the road and had bad bump steer. The RTC helped only slightly to reduce bumpsteer, and I think it was only because the force from hitting a bump had to overcome not only a new damper but also the spring pressure before it could cause bumpsteer. This was the only advantage I found.

The RTC IMO did not stop the car wandering at all.

I found that as I steered the car into a corner more effort was required to steer because you have to overcome the spring pressure. The tighter the corner, the more the spring compresses or stretches so progressively more effort is required. This makes turning a 90deg corner or parking a BIATCH even with power steering.

I also found that when travelling in a straight line at road speeds, when the steering is more or less at centre, the spring is at rest and needs a few degrees of steering rotation before enough spring pressure is created to give any hint of returning to centre. So basically when you need the RTC function the most, the spring is in the positon where it is least able to provide any benefit.


I removed my RTC after I fixed up caster problems and the car feels a lot better to steer without it.

IMO RTC is a piss poor cover up of more serious steering problems.

I did not notice any advantage in having an RTC fitted for offroad driving either.

Id say people fit them for two reasons.

Misinformed that it will fix unrelated steering problems.(like me)

For the BLING factor and coz there mates all have em

Can I quote you? This is a well written and informative opinion.

Shane.

Mate, do what you like with it. Just send me a royalty cheque each month and she'll be apples

One of the things I like about outers is coming accross a really good bit of solid info from guys with experience to back up their point of veiw. Its so hard to get decent info from retailers who often are clueless about the products they sell

Cheers

[Suspension Stuff]

Can someone explain what the spring is supposed to do? Self centering is a result of caster, a spring isn't going to make any substantial difference.

I have seen and driven a few cars with these on, but seriously don't understand the advantage except to add bling- If a spring was massively beneficial to the steering/damping action, it would have been done long ago by an oem. Just my opinion, but maybe I'm missing somehting about the function of the spring.

Steve.

An RTC damper is supposed to be set up so that when the steering is centred the spring is at rest, no compression, no tension.
Turning the steering wheel one direction compresses the spring, the other direction will stretch the spring, when you release the steering wheel the spring pressure is supposed to force the steering and front tyres back to the centre so that the spring is again at rest.

If you have enough positive caster, steering automatically returns to centre.

I fitted an RTC when my caster was not right and my car was wandering all over the road and had bad bump steer. The RTC helped only slightly to reduce bumpsteer, and I think it was only because the force from hitting a bump had to overcome not only a new damper but also the spring pressure before it could cause bumpsteer. This was the only advantage I found.

The RTC IMO did not stop the car wandering at all.

I found that as I steered the car into a corner more effort was required to steer because you have to overcome the spring pressure. The tighter the corner, the more the spring compresses or stretches so progressively more effort is required. This makes turning a 90deg corner or parking a BIATCH even with power steering.

I also found that when travelling in a straight line at road speeds, when the steering is more or less at centre, the spring is at rest and needs a few degrees of steering rotation before enough spring pressure is created to give any hint of returning to centre. So basically when you need the RTC function the most, the spring is in the positon where it is least able to provide any benefit.


I removed my RTC after I fixed up caster problems and the car feels a lot better to steer without it.

IMO RTC is a piss poor cover up of more serious steering problems.

I did not notice any advantage in having an RTC fitted for offroad driving either.

Id say people fit them for two reasons.

Misinformed that it will fix unrelated steering problems.(like me)

For the BLING factor and coz there mates all have em

Can I quote you? This is a well written and informative opinion.

Shane.

Mate, do what you like with it. Just send me a royalty cheque each month and she'll be apples

One of the things I like about outers is coming accross a really good bit of solid info from guys with experience to back up their point of veiw. Its so hard to get decent info from retailers who often are clueless about the products they sell

Cheers

That's because they don't get on Outers enough. Shame on them. I recommend Procomp, EFS Extreme or Ironman in the steering dampers.

Shane.

[Rocky8]

I had a standard steering dampner on my Rocky...when i put the 31" tyres on the steering was terrible with so much bumpsteer etc...put on the tough dog rtc and problem solvered...drives like a new 4x4 now....but for anyone with 33" tyres or bigger they are shite...thats when u need a big bore steering dampner...

[Gwagensteve]

put on the tough dog rtc and problem solvered...drives like a new 4x4 now....but for anyone with 33" tyres or bigger they are shite...thats when u need a big bore steering dampner...

I'm not having a go at you, and if it worked for you that's great, but steering dampers never, ever, "solve" a problem, they only mask it so you don't notice - kinda like bogging over rust - it's still there and doing its bad work... you just can't see it.

The cause of the steering problem will still be there.

On another note - a steering damper, wherever it is placed, cannot have any effect over bumpsteer. Bumpsteer is 100% a result of suspension and steering geometry.

None of this has any effect over the improvement you felt once you had fitted the damper - an improvement in feel is an improvement in feel - just that it's not really doing as much as you think.

Steve.

[clm434]

Thanks for all the input of information and feedback guys.

I think it looks like I'll save my money and use it elsewhere on the ute.

Only now it leaves me with this question. What is the best way to set up the suspension to eliminate/reduce bumpsteer and/or wandering?

Go with heaps of camber? More/less castor?

It will be getting a wheel alignment after I fit new torsion bars and crank them up a bit, and just by looking at it it seems to have a bit of positive camber. Should I get it adjusted to 0 degrees or a touch into negative, say -1or2 degrees?

[Rocky8]

put on the tough dog rtc and problem solvered...drives like a new 4x4 now....but for anyone with 33" tyres or bigger they are shite...thats when u need a big bore steering dampner...

I'm not having a go at you, and if it worked for you that's great, but steering dampers never, ever, "solve" a problem, they only mask it so you don't notice - kinda like bogging over rust - it's still there and doing its bad work... you just can't see it.

The cause of the steering problem will still be there.

On another note - a steering damper, wherever it is placed, cannot have any effect over bumpsteer. Bumpsteer is 100% a result of suspension and steering geometry.

None of this has any effect over the improvement you felt once you had fitted the damper - an improvement in feel is an improvement in feel - just that it's not really doing as much as you think.

Steve.

I dont have any steering problems....as the front end on my 4x4 was done 2 months ago...but that didnt solve the bumpsteer problems...the RTC dampner did....maybe they are no good on a big 4x4...but it works great on my little Rocky....cheers...