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E85 Petrol is coming
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E85 Petrol is coming
I saw E85 (yes 85% ethanol) petrol at a servo the other day, they said they are trialling it so its not for sale yet. But at 98cpl it'd prolly sell quickly. Anyway has anyone used it?
I was reading a news article on the new Holden Coupe today, which mentioned the V8 is E85 compatible - I didn't see the relevance at the time.
As I understand it, ethanol creates two problems.
First, as it's hydrophilic, it promotes corrosion.
Second, it creates problems with some rubber components (don't remember how/why.)
The rubber issue apparently only affects older vehicles - newer vehicles supposedly have rubbers better suited to ethanol usage.
The corrosion issue is the big one. A few years back I read some figures about "ethanol proofing" an engine for the Brazil market - something like 80% of engine components had to be re-specified.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to run it. I'm still thinking hard about E10.
As I understand it, ethanol creates two problems.
First, as it's hydrophilic, it promotes corrosion.
Second, it creates problems with some rubber components (don't remember how/why.)
The rubber issue apparently only affects older vehicles - newer vehicles supposedly have rubbers better suited to ethanol usage.
The corrosion issue is the big one. A few years back I read some figures about "ethanol proofing" an engine for the Brazil market - something like 80% of engine components had to be re-specified.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to run it. I'm still thinking hard about E10.
Hydro - waterSigjero wrote:What does hydrophylic mean? 98cpl isn't iffy thoughchimpboy wrote:It's a little iffy imho. Ethanol is hydrophilic, not really so good for a lot of cars. So... hmm.
Philic (sp?) - loves/attracts
Hydrophilic substances love water.
Petrol doesn't mix with water, so doesn't tend to absorb moisture from the air. Ethanol readily absorbs moisture from the air.
Sigjero wrote:What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
most of it has been problems with the flexible hoses used in the system.
some of it goes rock hard and cracks, with other brands tend to turn to jelly, much like what auto fluid does to rubber hoses. the last one we had was a few weeks ago, A 2000 modle mitsu express van, the very last of the carburated ones, the feul hose from the tank to the solid line on the chassis had gone like jelly, leaking feul, one the line from the filter to the carb had started to aswell. found the float bowl full of rubber.
have seen a few cars with alloy lines filling carbs and injectors rails with white crap too. But those cars had been using it since it first hit the shelves.
the biggest problem is people not realising what the stuff can do and blindly using it
u beat me to it sigjero 
we were thinking of buying the e85 and mixing it with regular unleaded to mix it up a bit..
i was thinking 20l or e85 and 110l of regular should be ok
i have run the e10 in the GU when on long highway trips etc.. and it gave me better fuel economy
i got the GU down to 16l per hundred
we were thinking of buying the e85 and mixing it with regular unleaded to mix it up a bit..
i was thinking 20l or e85 and 110l of regular should be ok
i have run the e10 in the GU when on long highway trips etc.. and it gave me better fuel economy
i got the GU down to 16l per hundred my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
i still have to convince the guy at the servo to sell me some to try out..
i was going to use it on the boat also
i was going to use it on the boat also
my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
but if u can mix it with enough regular it should make it ok right??pongo wrote:yeah, diff fuels can be dodgy.
Vege oil is so acidic that it eats through std rubber fuel lines very quickly.
But generally the cost of producing a crop for fuel takes more fuel than is generated.
20l mixed with 110l should be ok shouldt it?
my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
not necessarilybogged wrote:brilliant thinking.. save $2.00 a tank and have a $5000 repair billSigjero wrote:98cpl isn't iffy though
why cant you buy it and mix it?
my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
yeh, once i had a little water in the tank and the outboard ran like a dog and kept stalling etc..sierrajim wrote: J-Top, re running it in your boat, didn't someone say it absorbed moisture?
so we put some e10 in it and it ran like normal again
my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
That is a trick we have been using for years, if you cop a bit of fuel with water in it, you add some methanol, which absorbs the water, and lets you burn it harmlessly. The methanol (straight) corrodes alloy and eats rubber, but when mixed is relatively safe, especially when you wash it thru with straight petrol afterwards.
www.CVEPerformance.com
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Crushu F150 Buildup: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic21987.php&highlight=crushu
Thanks man, now I know what to look for I'll keep an eye on hoses and see how it goes, as for the float bowl filling with crap an inline fuel filter should catch this shouldn't it?brad-chevlux wrote:Sigjero wrote:What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
most of it has been problems with the flexible hoses used in the system.
some of it goes rock hard and cracks, with other brands tend to turn to jelly, much like what auto fluid does to rubber hoses. the last one we had was a few weeks ago, A 2000 modle mitsu express van, the very last of the carburated ones, the feul hose from the tank to the solid line on the chassis had gone like jelly, leaking feul, one the line from the filter to the carb had started to aswell. found the float bowl full of rubber.
have seen a few cars with alloy lines filling carbs and injectors rails with white crap too. But those cars had been using it since it first hit the shelves.
the biggest problem is people not realising what the stuff can do and blindly using it
So it's a bit like aviation fuel then.-Scott- wrote:Hydro - waterSigjero wrote:What does hydrophylic mean? 98cpl isn't iffy thoughchimpboy wrote:It's a little iffy imho. Ethanol is hydrophilic, not really so good for a lot of cars. So... hmm.
Philic (sp?) - loves/attracts
Hydrophilic substances love water.
Petrol doesn't mix with water, so doesn't tend to absorb moisture from the air. Ethanol readily absorbs moisture from the air.
I used to run AV gas in my bike and I was always draining water out of of the float bowl & fuel tank. The fuel used to leak through the fuel c*ck and out all the seals in the carbi too leaving green stains everywhere.
Cheers Mick.
Sigjero wrote:Thanks man, now I know what to look for I'll keep an eye on hoses and see how it goes, as for the float bowl filling with crap an inline fuel filter should catch this shouldn't it?brad-chevlux wrote:Sigjero wrote:What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
most of it has been problems with the flexible hoses used in the system.
some of it goes rock hard and cracks, with other brands tend to turn to jelly, much like what auto fluid does to rubber hoses. the last one we had was a few weeks ago, A 2000 modle mitsu express van, the very last of the carburated ones, the feul hose from the tank to the solid line on the chassis had gone like jelly, leaking feul, one the line from the filter to the carb had started to aswell. found the float bowl full of rubber.
have seen a few cars with alloy lines filling carbs and injectors rails with white crap too. But those cars had been using it since it first hit the shelves.
the biggest problem is people not realising what the stuff can do and blindly using it
grab a ryco Z200 or equivelent filter andput it as close to the carb as you can, 20cm at most. use new fuel hose between the filter and the carb.
If you are going to run E10 or E85 replace all the rubber hose in the system with speedflow 400 series hose or equivelent from earls, russel ect. it'll stand up to the ethenol better.
and just remember the stoichemetric ratio for ethenol is not the same as for petrol. With E85 carby engines WILL need rejetting to run it. then you'll be stuck with it for good, so make sure it's really what you want
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