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ZF Heavy duty upgrades

Tech Talk for Rover owners.

Moderator: Micka

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ZF Heavy duty upgrades

Post by Slunnie »

I've got a chipped intercooled TD5 that is doing some good power. The auto doesn't cope all that well with the power and needs regular fluid and adjustment despite a really good additional ATF cooler.

Just wondering if ayybody has much experience or knowledge about these modifications that are done by Ashcroft as quoted below, who does these mods in Aus (Pref Sydney) and what type of $ it is all worth to have done. The Disco get's serviced etc by Davis Performance Landy's though I have not chatted to them about it yet.


http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_18.html
Heavy Duty ZF autoboxes

We are able to supply the ZF4HP22 with optional strength upgrades depending what you are doing with the vehicle, what gearing, what engine Etc.

Stage 1 upgrade

We can build the 4HP22 but fit the centre section of the box with the bigger 4HP24 internals which upgrades one of the weak links being the C1/C2 one way clutch, the 24 one is much stronger, Photo here. Just the centre internals are changed so the box stays the same externally. This upgrade is an additional £ 250 on top of the normal rebuilt exchange price of £ 595 or £ 645, depending if the box is hydraulic or electronic.

Stage 2 upgrade

The box can be built with both the 4HP24 internals as above but also the 24 front end as well giving you the added strength of having the larger 24 "A" clutch, also a weak point with larger engines.Photo hereThere are 2 fitting implications of doing this, the unit is 15mm longer and the oil cooler nipples are M18 x 1.5 thread, on the early 22"s these threads are M16 X 1.5, the later 22"s like the TD5"s are already M18. This upgrade is an additional £ 500 on top of the normal rebuilt exchange price of £ 595 or £ 645, depending if the box is hydraulic or electronic.

Torque Converter Upgrades

The ZF auto as used in the LandRover vehicles uses three different diameters of torque converter. Small. Medium and Large.Photo here

"Small" is used on the 300 Tdi, P38 diesel and the TD5 "Medium" is used on the 3.9, 4.0 and the later 4.6 P38 "Large" is used on the early 4.6 P38"s

The converter has a lock up clutch inside and the smaller one struggles to cope with a stock engine, never mind a tuned one.

When the "stage 2" ZF is being used with a V8 or 2.8 TGV you have the option of using the larger diameter 4.6 torque converter at no additional cost but on a V8 you will also need the 4.6 boss and flexplate assy to match the bigger converter. When using on the 2.8 be sure to order the conversion kit to fit the bigger 4.6 converter. This bigger converter is recommended on the big V8"s and the 2.8 as it keeps the revs and heat down.

If you have a tuned TD5 engine, in addition to the stage 1 or 2 options mentioned above we are now able to replace the "Small" diameter torque converter for the "Medium" diameter one. This gives you the benefit of the larger lock up clutch and the lower stall speed V8 torque converter which will take up drive earlier. This option is an additional £ 250.

TD5 ZF upgrades

If you are converting your TD5 Defender to auto you have a few options, I though it may be useful to give some guidance based on our experience.

Stock 90/110, fine with a stock 4HP22 Medium Tuned 90, stock ZF, uprated converter Medium Tuned 110, stage 1 ZF, uprated converter Fully Tuned 90, stage 1 ZF, uprated converter Fully Tuned 110, stage 2 ZF, uprated converter Tuned Challenge 90, stage 2 ZF, uprated converter
Cheers
Slunnie

Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
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Post by andrew e »

chat with davis about the clutches, as bruce told me a few years ago that he instaled the hp24 guts in his yellow bushie (same one which took out tt07).

I also hear some Jaguar bits are the same or stronger and may be had cheaper? Not 100% sure on this one though. I think some of the winch comp trucks are running them..... mabe one of the victorians know more.
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Post by nottie »

Are there any dramas with fitting a 727 torque flight as they can be built cheap to cop heaps of power and alot cheaper then a ZF. I know you loose the 4th gear but hay if it holds up then ya in the clear.
There was one on ebay the other day with a lt230 for 300 bickies.
If not i know where there are a few with adapter to a rover block. That is if the diesels are the same bolt up as the petrols.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-speed-Gearbox- ... dZViewItem
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Post by Slunnie »

G'day Andy, I'll have a chat to Bruce then if he knows about this stuff. It makes it a lot easier for me if he can do this stuff also when the jigger is in for a service etc. Thanks for this!

Hay Nottie thanks for this and an interesting option. I'd also like the commodore gearbox too. I probably need to keep the ZF because everything in the D2 is computer controlled and it get very upset when somrthing isn't quite right. As it's also a tourer and DD I'd probably be better off to detune rather than changing out the transmissions, but it seems the ZF can be made to handle the power..... well, at least better handle the power.
Cheers
Slunnie

Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
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Location: Eastern Melbourne

Post by awright »

I have heard of 1 conversion with a gen 3 in a rangie with a ZF. Basically done for towing. AMR in Vic did the work on it to prep it for the gen 3 power but I dont know what was involved. Keep us posted.
Take me to the Bush!
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Post by Slunnie »

Thanks for that info. Was that AMV???
Cheers
Slunnie

Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:06 pm
Location: Eastern Melbourne

Post by awright »

sorry typo. Yes I heard that it was AMV
Take me to the Bush!
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Post by KiwiBacon »

nottie wrote:Are there any dramas with fitting a 727 torque flight as they can be built cheap to cop heaps of power and alot cheaper then a ZF. I know you loose the 4th gear but hay if it holds up then ya in the clear.
There was one on ebay the other day with a lt230 for 300 bickies.
If not i know where there are a few with adapter to a rover block. That is if the diesels are the same bolt up as the petrols.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-speed-Gearbox- ... dZViewItem

I've got a TF727 pretty much free to a good home. Unknown condition but the LT230 off it was in excellent condition. Previous owner thought maybe 80,000km.
Downside, I'm in Kiwiland and buyer pays freight. :D
Posts: 139
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Location: Eastern Melbourne

Post by awright »

I got onto AMV, they were pretty helpful and put me onto their bloke that does their "trans" work.

Basically, depending on the engine, he recommended a holden gearbox etc. dont know how this works with a TD5 but perfect for a holden conversion of course...

HSV rangie uses a ZF though in his 5.0 195Kw machine so he might be able to tell you what he did and how it lasts.

The trans guys were great and said that though the ZFs held up ok the 4.6 24 was the pick of them and that it wasnt the HP they struggle with it is the torque...

Let us know what you find out cause my ZF might need tweaking soon as well!
Take me to the Bush!
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