Odd ball, extremely odd ball.
ZK(XE) falcon, along with 4wd drivetrain.
Already have stuff to build new full chassis and floor, etc etc, and a 9" to use for the back, i'm just curious what transfer and diff(s) or diff parts I would be best off using, was considering Gq because I have heard they are strong, and either of the two engine combo's I could use will make immense TQ. I have choice of turbo 351 or turbo Ba six. 351 has glide the six a C4.
Would like to use something that has some ratios matching a 9" but dont know whats available, only looking at ratios 3.0 through 3.5 to 1. I could graft 9" centre onto front but they are soo bulky.
Chassis rails materials are 150x50x3, 100x50x3, and 75x50x3, along with some 42mm 3.6walled CHS, probably a bit of overkill.
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Opinions on transfer and diff selection for project.
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that would have been an option but ive commited myself to building chassis now, ie the shell is only an outer skin, i'd prefer to make it all myself anyway, get a much better Cg and get everything where I want it, as i want to keep it relatively low, and move the engine back a fair ammount, get the front diff tucked up high.
I take it your suggestion to use Gq means they are tough? The turbo V8 has hardware that will support 800hp easily, Man O war block, etc etc.
Part of my concern is that the transfer case will be frequently breaking if I do put in the 8. One of the 9's I have is 35spline detroit locker hence my reason for wishing to keep 9" compatibility.
Thanks for the reply.
I take it your suggestion to use Gq means they are tough? The turbo V8 has hardware that will support 800hp easily, Man O war block, etc etc.
Part of my concern is that the transfer case will be frequently breaking if I do put in the 8. One of the 9's I have is 35spline detroit locker hence my reason for wishing to keep 9" compatibility.
Thanks for the reply.
Only problem you may face is trying to keep your diff ratio at 3.5 with any compatible front diff. IIRC the GU front is a 3.5 in the 4.8 petrol.
One issue if you intend on using it for 4WDing at all is the position of the pinion so low on the 9" carrier - very vulnerable to driveshaft damage, although the internal strength of them is undisputed.
GU H260 rear and a matching GU H233 front would be my suggestion, they can take bagloads of torque (see some of the tough trucks and various other competition trucks and buggies) and a relatively easy and cheap to run/repair.
Transfer cases: Nissan GQ/GU again - well proven (front offset/rear central). Others of note - Landrover LT xxx series (front + rear offset), and several "aftermarket" tcases, Atlas is one that comes to mind.
One issue if you intend on using it for 4WDing at all is the position of the pinion so low on the 9" carrier - very vulnerable to driveshaft damage, although the internal strength of them is undisputed.
GU H260 rear and a matching GU H233 front would be my suggestion, they can take bagloads of torque (see some of the tough trucks and various other competition trucks and buggies) and a relatively easy and cheap to run/repair.
Transfer cases: Nissan GQ/GU again - well proven (front offset/rear central). Others of note - Landrover LT xxx series (front + rear offset), and several "aftermarket" tcases, Atlas is one that comes to mind.
George Carlin, an American Comedian said; "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise that half of them are stupider than that".
Land Rover LT230 T-case is VERY strong, and usually set up with 3.54:1 diffs, but has an offset rear.
I don't think you would have problems with patrol or cruiser t-cases either.
As Damkia said, Nissan diffs would be a good option. There are also some cruiser diffs which come in 3.5:1 ratios (80 series I think). DON'T use rover diffs.
I don't think you would have problems with patrol or cruiser t-cases either.
As Damkia said, Nissan diffs would be a good option. There are also some cruiser diffs which come in 3.5:1 ratios (80 series I think). DON'T use rover diffs.
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RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
The Nissan T/Case will happily spin away behind however much hp/tq you throw at it. It also has very big flanges to take big joints/shafts.
If you want a really "nice" project though I'd stay away from the Nissan axles. They can be built into quite strong units, but your 9" rear and another 9" front with some Dana outers would be a lot better at the end of the day. Would be good to stick with the Ford theme, too.
If you want a really "nice" project though I'd stay away from the Nissan axles. They can be built into quite strong units, but your 9" rear and another 9" front with some Dana outers would be a lot better at the end of the day. Would be good to stick with the Ford theme, too.
I build most things on a relatively low budget, and that diff looks like a work of art, very nice piece, well out of my price range.
This vehicle, ground clearance isn't of a huge concern, more just the power handling, think 4wd stadium truck, but in a ZK fairlane, trying to keep everything low slung, flat floored, and be able to compress susp just past sills on the ground, only thing that doesn't measure up for that is the back tyres end up higher than the bottom of the windows.
I should have kept an old alloy carrier I had, would have been handy for the front keep the weight down, really dont wanna use 9" front, but it may be the only option to keep ratios.
Thanks for the replies.
Whats the going price for a complete transfer case from a nissan? and the front diff? My guess is that the 3.5 diffs are less sought after compared with the numerically higher ones?
This vehicle, ground clearance isn't of a huge concern, more just the power handling, think 4wd stadium truck, but in a ZK fairlane, trying to keep everything low slung, flat floored, and be able to compress susp just past sills on the ground, only thing that doesn't measure up for that is the back tyres end up higher than the bottom of the windows.
I should have kept an old alloy carrier I had, would have been handy for the front keep the weight down, really dont wanna use 9" front, but it may be the only option to keep ratios.
Thanks for the replies.
Whats the going price for a complete transfer case from a nissan? and the front diff? My guess is that the 3.5 diffs are less sought after compared with the numerically higher ones?
Just spoke to bloke from Marks adapters, the only thing they have that works with c4 is to suit toyota FJ60 transfer, and nothing to suit a powerglide, he mentioned the atlas but 5K tag is way too much for this project.
Back to the drawing board, having never seen a nissan case up close its hard for me to picture how it could be mated to the C4.
Back to the drawing board, having never seen a nissan case up close its hard for me to picture how it could be mated to the C4.
Sam may be making a C4-LT230 adaptor in the future... (if the T700 is too long)
EDIT - ALTERNATELY - if you have the driveline length to spare, the LT230 can easily be mounted remotely, and I think the MQ? is also a remote t-case setup.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=135434Strange Rover wrote:I almost could and probably will if I have too to make it all fit.RUFF wrote:Sam why not go V6 C4 LT230? Should fix the tailshaft issues.
I prefer the t700 cause its alot less work to setup (C4 needs adapters at both ends as well as a modified output shaft...) and the t700 has lower first gear and overdrive as well.
Sam
EDIT - ALTERNATELY - if you have the driveline length to spare, the LT230 can easily be mounted remotely, and I think the MQ? is also a remote t-case setup.
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RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
After reading your last couple of posts and understanding your application a bit better, I'd say the Nissan axles would be fine. Without locking centres they should stand up well. Just truss the housings well to cope with all the jumping.
You'll get a transfer case and a pair of axles for under a grand if you keep an ear to the ground, but you might have to shell out for gearsets on top of that to get the tall ratio you are chasing. You won't get the tall ratio for the rear unless you go with the bigger H260 axle either.
Adapter won't be too bad to make, the Nissan case carries its own input shaft seal, so you only have to house a seal for the auto. It has a female splined input shaft, you can cut and shut the output shaft from the nissan gearbox to the slip yoke from the ford tailshaft to make a coupler shaft. The biggest pain is that the mounting pattern for the t/case is a huge, random affair. You'll know what I mean when you see one.
You'll get a transfer case and a pair of axles for under a grand if you keep an ear to the ground, but you might have to shell out for gearsets on top of that to get the tall ratio you are chasing. You won't get the tall ratio for the rear unless you go with the bigger H260 axle either.
Adapter won't be too bad to make, the Nissan case carries its own input shaft seal, so you only have to house a seal for the auto. It has a female splined input shaft, you can cut and shut the output shaft from the nissan gearbox to the slip yoke from the ford tailshaft to make a coupler shaft. The biggest pain is that the mounting pattern for the t/case is a huge, random affair. You'll know what I mean when you see one.
If I use the Ba engine and C4 then I guess the 9" isnt really needed, plus the sale of that will inject some cash into the build. The weight saving of the 6 over the v8 would be significant also, I just wanted too look into all options as the entire V8 package is already complete, no money to spend, and has been running, the 6cyl setup I have all the parts but nothing has been built. Using the C4 will limit me to 550fwhp.
Remote mounting for me sounds easier, the problem I think that would create is as the engine will be fairly far back, the front shaft would be very long.
I shall google, and look round on here, thanks for the replies, has helped alot.
Remote mounting for me sounds easier, the problem I think that would create is as the engine will be fairly far back, the front shaft would be very long.
I shall google, and look round on here, thanks for the replies, has helped alot.
its a clevor(aka boss) not a clevo, that engine will stay with me until I die, it took one full years pay just to buy the parts.
i'd like to use the C4/Ba engine, and stick with a divorced transfer so if i decide to throw in another driveline, its easier.
trying to find NP205 to go look at local to me but nobody has one, even a Gq setup just trying to find wrecker with one so i can see it up close, get afeel for how big they are and what style of adaptation might be required to make it work divorced if thats even possible.
Seems dana 44's share 9" ratios?
Am I correct in assuming that if i use a 9 in the front it would need to be upsidedown?
i'd like to use the C4/Ba engine, and stick with a divorced transfer so if i decide to throw in another driveline, its easier.
trying to find NP205 to go look at local to me but nobody has one, even a Gq setup just trying to find wrecker with one so i can see it up close, get afeel for how big they are and what style of adaptation might be required to make it work divorced if thats even possible.
Seems dana 44's share 9" ratios?
Am I correct in assuming that if i use a 9 in the front it would need to be upsidedown?
Bad pics but here i a NP205 to C4 adaptor I made, C4 to patrol would be quite an easy adaptor to make. As wendle said the nissan bolt pattern is very random.
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I have a Nissan case sitting on a bench if you want to come measure/photograph/check it out. I am on the southside.LTD351T wrote:its a clevor(aka boss) not a clevo, that engine will stay with me until I die, it took one full years pay just to buy the parts.
i'd like to use the C4/Ba engine, and stick with a divorced transfer so if i decide to throw in another driveline, its easier.
trying to find NP205 to go look at local to me but nobody has one, even a Gq setup just trying to find wrecker with one so i can see it up close, get afeel for how big they are and what style of adaptation might be required to make it work divorced if thats even possible.
Seems dana 44's share 9" ratios?
Am I correct in assuming that if i use a 9 in the front it would need to be upsidedown?
Front diff would still be right-way-up.
PM sent Wendle.Wendle wrote:I have a Nissan case sitting on a bench if you want to come measure/photograph/check it out. I am on the southside.LTD351T wrote:its a clevor(aka boss) not a clevo, that engine will stay with me until I die, it took one full years pay just to buy the parts.
i'd like to use the C4/Ba engine, and stick with a divorced transfer so if i decide to throw in another driveline, its easier.
trying to find NP205 to go look at local to me but nobody has one, even a Gq setup just trying to find wrecker with one so i can see it up close, get afeel for how big they are and what style of adaptation might be required to make it work divorced if thats even possible.
Seems dana 44's share 9" ratios?
Am I correct in assuming that if i use a 9 in the front it would need to be upsidedown?
Front diff would still be right-way-up.
Do you have to run the 3.5 ratio or would you be better with something like 4.11 or similar that is alot more common in cruiser or patrol frount diffs, since you can get gearsets to suit a 9 inch in just about reasonable ratio you want.
03 turbo twin cab hilux + 85 xtra cab 253, Have i ever said i love lockers?
Judginy by what Ive learned so far, I will be best sticking to one complete driveline, probably the Gq stuff, and just run with that, try and find some 3.9's.
If I'm not happy with that can always graft in two 9" centres, which for me is a great option as I have parts, so this is one thing that wouldn't be a bad idea from the start, saves remaking all the shafts.
I "think" I should go NP205 and twin 9" grafted into Gq axle assemblies, but what happens in reality may not be that simple, as to graft in standard Gq assemblies is almost free, it will come down to what i get my hands on first, if I find complete Gq driveline in useable cond with 3.9's, thats what it'l get.
If i find a NP205 cheap, then maybe pick up some empty housings and build up, who knows, hopefully when Wendle logs in again I can arrange to go see the case he has, and have a chat, look, etc.
If I'm not happy with that can always graft in two 9" centres, which for me is a great option as I have parts, so this is one thing that wouldn't be a bad idea from the start, saves remaking all the shafts.
I "think" I should go NP205 and twin 9" grafted into Gq axle assemblies, but what happens in reality may not be that simple, as to graft in standard Gq assemblies is almost free, it will come down to what i get my hands on first, if I find complete Gq driveline in useable cond with 3.9's, thats what it'l get.
If i find a NP205 cheap, then maybe pick up some empty housings and build up, who knows, hopefully when Wendle logs in again I can arrange to go see the case he has, and have a chat, look, etc.
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