Sierra to Falcon ALT upgrade PROBLEM - NOW ALL SORTED!

Post by **Pezooki** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:53 pm

Hello all.

I am half way through doing the EF Falcon 100a Alternator upgrade ('Mitsubishi' EF Alt, with Bosch EB Falcon V-belt pulley) to my 91WT Sierra, and have hit an unexpected problem!

I have read all the posts I could find, and have seen all the pics of the upgrade project and final result. (Thanks to B4T for his thread on this: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=79826 ).

As I was pulling the old ALT out, I noticed that it was slightly out of alignment with the other pulleys (maybe 3mm), but I didnt take much notice at this point... I removed the alt mounting bracket and drilled it out to accommodate the larger EF alt mounting bolt. All good so far - all fitting together nicely!! I then went to bolt it all in, and realised something was very wrong!!!

So now to the problem: My pulleys are MILES out of alignment. They are not even close. Not even adjusting the pulley with spacers could fix my problem here. The alt sits WAY too far forward. What I need to know is:

1) WTF is going on in the pics below? Are my water pump and crank pulleys standard zook ones, or are they off something else??? (My zook came with a reco engine, so I have no idea on what they have done here...) Compared to other pics I have found on this site, they do look similar.

2) THE ALTERNATOR BRACKET. = On my zook, this bracket is CAST, not a bent up metal bracket as I have seen in some of the other pictures on this site...- This is what I 'believe' the problem to be, but I would appreciate any input you can give me!)

3) If the stupid

bracket is the problem, can anyone here help me out with sourcing the correct one??

Here are the pics:

Thanks all, (Sorry about all of the pics, but I hope they are better than a thousand words!)

Pez

Post by **dank** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:13 pm

g'day pez,

I bent the top mount forward and mounted the front surface of the alternator behind not in front of the top mount. this aligns it pretty much perfectly. you have to heat and bend the top slide mount to get it right...Mine was pretty booty fab.

I also ground out more of the inside of the front mount on the alternator to move it back in alignment as well...

Actually come to think of it my 1.3 is dead so if you want my mount pm me. I'm away this week but we can work something out.

Post by **want33s** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:18 pm

I haven't seen a cast bracket before but I don't think that is your problem.
If I remember correctly I used a 4mm spacer between pulley and alt and the nut is flush with the end of the shaft, your spacer looks thicker which would push the pulley forward.
If all else fails you could grind the front of the cast bracket a couple of mm and add a washer same thick thickness between back side of bracket and alt.

Post by **Moph** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:30 pm

Your problem is the spacer / alternator neck circled on the photo below.

The brackets all look the same as mine and I had no trouble lining up my EF 110A alternator.

I'm presuming that the spacer / alternator neck is part of the alternator housing? The EF Fairmont Ghia alternator I got doesn't have this neck sticking out, so the pulley I scrounged off another random alternator fit fine.

Actually forget about words - see the piccy below of my alternator. Have it out of the car at the moment so may as well take a pic and show you the difference. Again, brackets look identical - only difference is the alternator neck.

By the way, the pulley I scrounged had no spacer integrated into it. The alternator it came off was necked on the thread portion so the pulley just pushed up against the neck and that gave it correct alignment. I made up a spacer for the EF alternator using some metal tube I had lying around ... just cut it to correct length to get the alignment I needed.

Post by **want33s** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:37 pm

Mine.. The pulley is a lot closer to the body of the alt than yours is.

Post by **Pezooki** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:53 pm

Thanks to all for your fast replies!

Dan- Thanks heaps for your offer! I will see how I go with mine and if all else fails, I will PM you. Cheers!

Want33s and Moph - I forgot to mention that the pulley is NOT actually in the correct position in that pic - it is only sitting there, and I can move it easily enough to wherever it will line up best. Playing with spacers is no problem.... However as I said above, moving the pulley alone is NOT going to resolve my issue. It will require a fair bit of grinding and spacers to make it all work - which is NOT what most others have had to do to!!! The whole alternator body must move rearward approx 5mm (guessing) in order to make it work - and thats before I start playing with the spacers!.

As it stands now, all tightened up on the car, the pulley can not physically move rearwards enough to make things line up. It just cant!

Pez

Post by **Pezooki** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:04 pm

Oh yeah Moph,

You said: "I'm presuming that the spacer / alternator neck is part of the alternator housing?"

Correct. - The housing has a collar/neck (the part you have circled) and I also have a spacer under the pulley.

I asked for an EF Fairmont Ghia (6cl) alternator, but perhaps that is NOT what I have been sold??... Perhaps the 100A versions are not a good fit???

Post by **built4thrashing** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:14 pm

dunno if anyone else has noticed but those two alts have different part numbers.

Post by **Pezooki** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:21 pm

Hi B4T,

Yep. The more I think about it, the more I think I might be better off just taking this 100A alt that they sold me back to the place I got it, and sourcing the 110A alt, part number 94da-10300-ad.

That sounds like a better option than 'making' the 100A I have now fit in, as part of the reason I like this mod is the 'easy replacement' factor... Not so easy if I will have to re-invent the wheel in the event of another alt failure!

Pez

Post by **want33s** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:44 pm

My alt has part number '96DA - 10300 - AA'

Post by **Pezooki** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:47 pm

'96DA - 10300 - AA', thats the same as mine. Does yours have the collar/neck?

Post by **want33s** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:13 pm

Pezooki wrote:'96DA - 10300 - AA', thats the same as mine. Does yours have the collar/neck?

Yep mine has the raised bearing support too... Theres about 3-4mm between the back of the pulley and the screws that hold the alt together.

Post by **bazooked** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:52 pm

dont forget people ford have 2 different alternators in those models, a mitsubishi alt and a bosch 1, the mitsi is a shit load more exy than the bosh.

Post by **Moph** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:58 am

Pezooki wrote:The housing has a collar/neck (the part you have circled) and I also have a spacer under the pulley.

That's where they differ. Mine didn't have the bearing support - the original multigroove pulley for the Ford alternator I have actually had a spacer built into the back of it that extended about 5mm into a recess in the housing. So when I put mine together, I actually had to make up a new hollow tube spacer to get the pulley in the position shown in my photo, otherwise when the nut was tightened the V-pulley would have ended up grinding on the alternator housing.

Post by **built4thrashing** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:59 am

I didn't notice that b4. the alt you need to use is a 110amp not a 100amp. They are different in the spacer like everyone is saying. Take it back and ask for the 110amp mitsubishi one.

Post by **Pezooki** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:52 am

Hi All.

I have decided to take the 100A alt back, and source the 110A version without the neck/collar.

I have no doubt that many have made the 100A alt work in the past, but it's more stuffing around than I can be bothered with at the moment (I could "make" it fit, but that would void the 3 month warranty I got on the alt, and I dont know if the alt is even any good yet!!!)

I'm not in a massive rush to get it done (It's not a DD), so I will find a 110A EF Fairmont Ghia 'Mitsubishi' alt and go from there. I will keep you posted on how it goes!

Thanks to all so far for your help!

Pez

Post by **Pezooki** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:11 pm

UPDATE:

Hi again. Well I did a bit of ringing around on the weekend and spoke to a few wreckers that "definitely" had the EF Fairmont Ghia 110A alternators "in stock". Of course, this was not the case...

I found one EF Fairmont Ghia 110A, but it looked like it had been sitting in a bucket full of water and oil for 72 years. I said "No Thanks" to that one... I also came across a number of EL 110A alternators, all of which have the unwanted collar/neck on the housing (and were also in pretty rough condition).

This inspired me to have another look at making the 100A EF Falcon 'Mitsubishi' one I already had fit in the zook... As it turned out, I did not have to modify the alternator - which is great cos I still have my warranty, and can swap it over for another one at any stage, with minimum fuss.

How did I do it?

1) I set the pulley as far back as I could.

2) I ground about 5mm off the cast bracket to space the alt back, and used a metal spacer at the rear of the bracket to make it all work.

3) I modified the slide bracket to accommodate the larger bolt, and cut a portion away to allow more adjustment.

4) I upgraded the charge cable, and fitted an Optima D34M (Marine version). This is the same as the D34 Yellow top, but has the advantage of an extra set of terminals for accessories. Handy! (and well worth the $$$$ IMHO)!

It was a small pain in the butt to do (cos I didn't want to do it

), but it's done now, and I am very happy with the results. The alternator will run all of my accessories, including my lights on high beam and spotties on, with No voltage drop at all! I can disconnect the battery with the engine at idol, with all the above running - no problems!!! (I do not recommend you try that unless you know what you are doing)

Thanks all for your awesome help!

Cheers,

Pez

Post by **11_evl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:35 pm

looking good
maybe consider putting a tube in between the two cast bracket pieces as taking 5mm off it will weaken it a bit

Post by **Pezooki** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 pm

Yes that was the plan, but I didn't have any tube handy at the time! A bit of booty-fab and "she'll be right" ended up doing the job this time.

It all tightened up well, but I will keep a close eye on it.
If any problems occur with this setup, I will be sure to post back here to let you all know about it!

Cheers,

Pez

Post by **11_evl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:59 pm

nice battery, where from ?? how much??

Post by **mistaboz** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:14 pm

Not sure if anybody has bothered to weigh either of the two alternators?
If so what are the weights of each?

Cheers Paul

Post by **Pezooki** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:04 pm

11_evl: PM sent.

mistaboz: My dodgy scales tell me that the standard zook alt is 3.0KG. I don't know about the EF one, but it's obviously heavier...

Unless you are trying to work out a postage amount, I wouldn't be too worried about the weight of it!

Pez

Post by **84ZOOKSTA** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:20 pm

Hey Pez now that your an expert you can come and do mine.

Cheers
Simon...

Post by **ofr57** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:30 am

11_evl wrote:nice battery, where from ?? how much??

x2

it looks the goods

Post by **Pezooki** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:03 am

Ok Simon, Ill swap you - you can do my T case gears, locked rear and winch and I will do your alt upgrade! haha

Post by **MUD-PIGSIERRA** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:51 am

Nice work dude I had to do quite a bit of fab to fit mine in as well, combination of Power steering, 1.3 in a NT and the fact that the EF Alternator is a bloody huge bitch. Other wise I was lucky enough that Im running serpentine style pulleys though so I didn't have to change the pulley over.

Post by **Hybrid** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:25 am

Off topic but I thought I may as well ask here as the guys that have done the falcon alternator would read it. Has anyone here got the multi-v pulley they took off of their alternator? I did this swap a couple of months back and left the multi-v pulley at the auto elecs. Now I've swapped to a 1.6L engine I need the multi-v back :(. So anyone in Brissy got one lying around theyd like to part with?

John

Post by **want33s** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:45 pm

Glad you got it all sorted Pezooki, your solution sounds a lot like my first post!

Post by **Pezooki** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:46 pm

Hey want33s,

No mate, not even close - you were 1mm out! hahahaha

Just kidding mate... The whole reason I started this thread was because the research I had done said that it was very close to a 'straight bolt in' job. As it turns out, when you don't have an EF Fairmont Ghia 110A alternator, but you do have an EF Falcon 100A alternator, there is a little more work involved! The end result is basically the same, it just takes a bit longer if you do it "our" 100A way!

That specific info does not seem to be easy to find - so hopefully this will help the next bunch of zook alternator upgraders!

Cheers,

Pez

Post by **want33s** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:47 pm

Pez you seem to have had a lot more trouble than I did.
I'm guessing the cast iron bracket is the culprit.. Oh well all good now.

Mine is 100A and is off an EF FALCON..I think the Fairmont uses a 110A version because it has more electrical crap onboard.

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