TUFF TRUCK Improvement ideas Constructive only.

[80lsy gq]

ps..second place this year had a chassis???????????????????

1st,2nd,3rd and 4th all have conventional TUFF TRUCK style chassies.

all cars there had Tuff Truck style chassis otherwise they wouldnt have been competing..i was referring to the comment saying that 1st and 2nd had original chassis...

dont get me wrong, i am not bagging it..i think its great....it just shows that a full fabricated chassis can be made to look original obviously..i think that Tuff Truck is heading (well has headed) in the right direction..

dave

[Tazz]

I keep hearing 2 classes…..stuff the 2 classes; this is Tuff Truck, not the toughest in its class, that’s Nissan Trials and Willoglen.

Tuff Truck is a no classes, run what you brung event, it has been from day one and should continue to be I think.

I do think there are things that need some looking into though:

* Rego is just a joke.
Nearly anyone can get nearly anything rego'd, so why have it.
If it is for an insurance reason that they still want rego, then I think they could be leaving themselves open for some major issues if ever there was a claim. I'm pretty sure 3rd party would not be valid on most if - any cars there once the insurance company became involved, due to mods and also the fact it's a competition. If Werock and Ozrock can get insurance with no rego then so too could Tuff Truck.

* I do think that there should have been a "min % of original chassis that is too remain" in the rules, I think "some chassis" is too loose a statement.
I don’t so much believe it should state where to and where from the rails must be, but do believe a min % should have been kept. Now that it’s done though I question if it should be tightened up, and think prob not if it is going to outlaw any rigs already built to previous rules..

*For most competitors the Mud is shit, and does nothing but play havoc with cars for the rest of the weekend and all for a few points. Make the mud more mud and less water and keep it if you must to keep the crowd entertained.

These are just my thoughts, & in the whole scheme of things Tuff Truck is a great event, but as with anything there is always room for some improvement…….

[maxtrax]

I think that you go see the tuffest rego'ed trucks around..

They should be trucks than not buggys [/b]eg; red suk, bush ranger,

The idea of having full chassis or say most of75% up is needed and state that the ome gaurds should be in place with adishanel ruber/plasic matterial.
You can build a tuff truck based on the origanal car. Like black vitara, green suk, banana, red bitch, fire truck,black GU ute etc. The w.e.rock rule of OME design should be inforced allso with chassis as this is the part of the car that any one is abell to purchace and rego. Than modify it as you please. Not a buggy frame that is not a mase production vechicle.

I think it was a great event that can do with out the piroes and definatly change the way you orginise the the mud run. Have the next car ready and make the coarse mostly drivable as this is what people are there to see. High powered cars reving the shit out them and achaly having a drive in the mud not in the dam.

It is true that one day a car is going to roll and get someone . So i believe that there should be 2 bunting taps 1 for the course and 1 5 metres away for spectators. And why was there spectators in the base of a starting area were if a car starts up the hill climb and rolls there directly in hams way.

[dudley]

It is true that one day a car is going to roll and get someone . So i believe that there should be 2 bunting taps 1 for the course and 1 5 metres away for spectators. And why was there spectators in the base of a starting area were if a car starts up the hill climb and rolls there directly in hams way.

Yep.
Agreed. Cant you imagine the bad media the sport would get of something happened and someone got *shudder* killed.

As far as chassis requirements. I'm still undecided.
I thing two classes would be bad.

It's Tuff Truck, not tough buggy.

[bad_religion_au]

It's Tuff Truck, not tough buggy.

but there is where the problem lies. "buggy" and "truck" isn't clearly defined.

i used to think pete's old yellow cruiser was "buggy" until i saw how he had to drive the pants off it to make it measure up against the first generation of "true buggies" (the Bathurst WEROCK round where the Haultech moon buggy was unvailed). watching him blow 3 yew beut mega tuff CV/axles trying to drive/exiting a course that was getting driven by the buggies drove home that his rig wasn't the defining line in buggy/truck.

so lots of tube doesn't define it.

is a truggy (sruggy, nuggy, or whatever make initial you want to put in front) a truck or buggy?

Wendle/nam's old patrol based "tr/n/buggy" was more standard nissan than almost any nissan in the field at tufftruck this year (TB42, standard 5 speed, standard case, with reduction gears, nissan diffs, GQ shorty chassis), but most would call it a "buggy".

so chassis/original drivetrain doesn't define it.

the original firetruck (before it was ravaged for the firebug), and i'm assuming black betty (haven't seen it in use for a long time) used to give a good nudge to the buggy teams at werock/ozrock. the firetruck was also running things like high 9's and atlas T cases while the buggy guys were still playing with Rover T cases and toyota axles.

these two jeeps are also some of the closest to what i'd call full bodied trucks in the field.

is drivetrain component choice, or ability on rocks going to be your deciding factor?

personally, i say run what ya "brung"

[ozy1]

We entered in a GQ, its has mods, but everything is engineered except tires and exo, now, i do not believe the event needs 2 classes, the event is put on sperate the field, now we had a ball with a fairly tame GQ, and tha is what we were there to do, we know we have no chance of winning it, in a heavy truck, but we still compete for the hell of it,

we dont need to classes, tuck or buggy, we dont need the field split by tire sizes, Daniel Pitt, and DGR showed what smaller tires and the right driver navi can do, leave it as it is, just look at the rego side of it,

The rego side of it is hard as well, if the rego rule is scrapped, i think it will become all buggies, if it does, they need rules in place for OE pannels, not a bonnet, they need guards, bonnet, firewall, an so on, or leave it as it is, let people push the limits of mods and see what happens,

[Dozoor]

2 classes

class 1 portals .

class 2 no portals . 37 inch tire limit .

So the truck that won this year with 49in tyres and no portals would be in which class???

The toughest truck has nothing to do with classes.

Sam

So lets forget the class bit then ,There would be NO need for it If they simply removed the words Registered and Engineered , from all there rules.



Larry.

[big red]

i reckon leave em registered ... be pretty boring if they built vehicles to suit the terrain then just drove everything !

[FireTruck]

Bring back reversing penalties and add a rear steer penalty.... really make people earn their points.

Mud 'race' rather than mud run. Keep it under lights - having the entire crowd there is a buzz.

Better security in Competitors area.

Dunnies that aren't piled full of shit to the brim.

Move TTC to Melbourne (or better yet, kick of a 4 event series - then I might build another truck)!

S.

[GU42PATROL]

After everyone adding their valued comments and thoughts into making the TTC even more enjoyable, I hope all these ideas are seriously thought of and seen / read by the Tuff Truck committee...Maybe one of the Tuff truck comittee members could post a reply on their thoughts and consideration on the ideas?

Lets get some feedback from the committe, managers

Congratulations to all the competitors for their efforts and making yet another TTC an enjoyable weekend for all....

[bad_religion_au]

Move TTC to Melbourne (or better yet, kick of a 4 event series - then I might build another truck)!

S.

x2

[r0ck_m0nkey]

Move TTC to Melbourne (or better yet, kick of a 4 event series - then I might build another truck)!

S.

x2

I think it should stay in it's perfectly good 1/2-3/4hr drive from my place

[PKiel]

After everyone adding their valued comments and thoughts into making the TTC even more enjoyable, I hope all these ideas are seriously thought of and seen / read by the Tuff Truck committee...Maybe one of the Tuff truck comittee members could post a reply on their thoughts and consideration on the ideas?

Lets get some feedback from the committe, managers

Congratulations to all the competitors for their efforts and making yet another TTC an enjoyable weekend for all....

x2. Well said

We had a ball at TT. We didn't do as well as we had hoped, we still drove a basically standard vehicle. But in hind sight we were competing against, helping out and chatting around the campfire with some mighty fine competitors, and to us this is what it is all about. (oh and to gain lots of points ) Thank for this experience.....

Our only thing to complain about is the security of the comp area.

[troy gill]

scrape the mud and make another man made course but only have bonus lines no bunting just say 10 different obsticales and let the competitor choose which order they do them in

then you could have lots of roll overs big angle stuff and make the competitor think about which ones he can do and in which order is up to him this would be much more interesting to drive and watch

thats my two bits but just wish my 4by didnt break so dam early but thats life and bring on next year as the tracks where awsume

good work apart from mud

[evanstaniland]

just wish my 4by didnt break so dam early but thats life and bring on next year as the tracks where awsume

good work apart from mud

x2

Evan

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

just wish my 4by didnt break so dam early but thats life and bring on next year as the tracks where awsume

good work apart from mud

x2

Evan

X3

although personally im all for the mud. otherwise its basically just rock crawling.
but perhaps less water and a gradual increase in depth from shallow to deep.
and as the mud is in an S shape, it would mean teams could call it at the end if they wished and bail out the exit. or take on the next bit at their own peril.

[Tulip]

Bring back reversing penalties and add a rear steer penalty.... really make people earn their points.

Mud 'race' rather than mud run. Keep it under lights - having the entire crowd there is a buzz.

Better security in Competitors area.

Dunnies that aren't piled full of shit to the brim.

Move TTC to Melbourne (or better yet, kick of a 4 event series - then I might build another truck)!

S.

i agree with everything except the last one

for the security, there should also be separate arm bands for crew. or allocate up to say 8 competitor bands per entry for crew..
because a few years ago they were completely anal about if you werent a competitor you werent to go anywhere, yet we were camping with them.
this year it was probably too relaxed.

mud needs a separate entrance and exit. and dont make it impossible at the 10 point marker, id rather see everyone make it through to the 70 point mark than 10hrs of recovery at the entrance gate.

[andrew e]

Extra event for next year.

Tractor pull.

Weigh the cars before, and put weight on the sled accordingly to be fair with the smaller rigs.

[Mick.]

Extra event for next year.

Tractor pull.

Weigh the cars before, and put weight on the sled accordingly to be fair with the smaller rigs.

Why make it fair. They let buggies compete against 4wds. Let them have the disadvantage for a change.

Cheers Mick.

[evanstaniland]

Extra event for next year.

Tractor pull.

Weigh the cars before, and put weight on the sled accordingly to be fair with the smaller rigs.

shit event me thinks!!

[Screwy]

I definately agree with bringing back in a rear steer penaltys, make the more hard core trucks work for there points....

I think rego needs to stay otherwise the event will just get full of random custom vehicles that people cant relate to and there will be nothing left in the way of Trucks in Tuff Truck... will end up being Tuff Buggies and Tuff Truggies...

I also think that there definately should be a minimum chassis percentage rule and a minimum originaly body shape and panels rule.... I think if they make it 50 percent original chassis where ever you want it then ppl can still run tube work over there front and rear diffs if required so thus portals are no problem and it keeps to the rules.

I also think that a firewall and at least bonnet, and some form of doors and guards should also be required....

This year there was quite a few vehicles in the field that were waaaaay too close to what i would expect to see in Promodifed class at we-rock....
I mean come on lets face it. going off what i saw this year, Dave camp could enter his pro mod buggy with the 40 series cruiser panels on it as long as he got a bodgy rego, and that to me is just a joke for an event like tuff truck as its a buggy....

screwy

[tom_286]

I definately agree with bringing back in a rear steer penaltys, make the more hard core trucks work for there points.

The rear steer penalty was crap, why penalise a team for having a well set up truck? Its Tuff Truck, not Handy Cap Truck. May the best truck/crew win. If a team hasnt got all the fancy gear someone else has and wants to be comeptative, then either drive bloody well or suck it up and build it better for next year!

[STIKA]

Extra event for next year.

Tractor pull.

Weigh the cars before, and put weight on the sled accordingly to be fair with the smaller rigs.

shit event me thinks!!

me two

[Screwy]

I definately agree with bringing back in a rear steer penaltys, make the more hard core trucks work for there points.

The rear steer penalty was crap, why penalise a team for having a well set up truck? Its Tuff Truck, not Handy Cap Truck. May the best truck/crew win. If a team hasnt got all the fancy gear someone else has and wants to be comeptative, then either drive bloody well or suck it up and build it better for next year!

reason being is id rather see who is the better driver rather than who has the bigger wallet

[alexcliffo]

I definately agree with bringing back in a rear steer penaltys, make the more hard core trucks work for there points....

I think rego needs to stay otherwise the event will just get full of random custom vehicles that people cant relate to and there will be nothing left in the way of Trucks in Tuff Truck... will end up being Tuff Buggies and Tuff Truggies...

I also think that there definately should be a minimum chassis percentage rule and a minimum originaly body shape and panels rule.... I think if they make it 50 percent original chassis where ever you want it then ppl can still run tube work over there front and rear diffs if required so thus portals are no problem and it keeps to the rules.

I also think that a firewall and at least bonnet, and some form of doors and guards should also be required....

This year there was quite a few vehicles in the field that were waaaaay too close to what i would expect to see in Promodifed class at we-rock....
I mean come on lets face it. going off what i saw this year, Dave camp could enter his pro mod buggy with the 40 series cruiser panels on it as long as he got a bodgy rego, and that to me is just a joke for an event like tuff truck as its a buggy....

screwy

Screwy has hit the nail on the head here (but without rear steer penalty IMO). Well said and totally agree.

Whatever Tuff Truck decides, I think the rules should be similar to a Modified Truck category for if and when WeRock runs this class. More people will probably get into the sport if they can enter more and varied events and still be competitive.

[bad_religion_au]

I definately agree with bringing back in a rear steer penaltys, make the more hard core trucks work for there points.

The rear steer penalty was crap, why penalise a team for having a well set up truck? Its Tuff Truck, not Handy Cap Truck. May the best truck/crew win. If a team hasnt got all the fancy gear someone else has and wants to be comeptative, then either drive bloody well or suck it up and build it better for next year!

don't the "well setup trucks" already get bonus points in the "engineering" comp?

guys in the unlimited class in werock (especially in the states) have shown that you don't need rear steer to win the day. it comes down to driver ability, which is what it should be about

[FireTruck]

...and that's the way I like it. If there are no rear steer or reverse penalties teams can just take 20 reverses and rear steer themselves silly without thinking about it.

I prefer to see teams work up a strategy, avoid reverses, and make the rear steer guys really have to think about using rear steer - or not.

I think it only works if you have both (rear steer, and reversing) penalties.

If it was just the Tuffest Truck, then you would all just drop your trucks off and let 1 driver drive them all and pick the best. But in spite of the name, it obviously isn't JUST tuff Truck - it is the Tuffest Team, which includes the truck, the driver, and the spotter.

Its a great event as is - great trucks, great drives and some super spotting. I just think it would be a bit better if the teams had to work a bit harder on their stretegies, and really show off their driving/spotting/teamwork skills.

S.

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

Extra event for next year.

Tractor pull.

Weigh the cars before, and put weight on the sled accordingly to be fair with the smaller rigs.

Why make it fair. They let buggies compete against 4wds. Let them have the disadvantage for a change.

Cheers Mick.

couldnt agree more.
or ban the buggies?

[bad_religion_au]

...and that's the way I like it. If there are no rear steer or reverse penalties teams can just take 20 reverses and rear steer themselves silly without thinking about it.

you only like it that way because team firetruck are great with teamwork, and have the skills to pay the bills

so i'm a fan of watching you guys work

i agree tho, from the first Werock i saw pete drive in in the big yellow beast (bathurst), to the last Ozrock i saw him drive in, him and Tazz improved out of site. the first werock he would rear steer through the start gate to get the penalty out the way. the last time i saw him drive, they worked their arses off to take wicked lines the first time, without rear steering onto them, and planned out their drive properly.

[bad_religion_au]

Extra event for next year.

Tractor pull.

Weigh the cars before, and put weight on the sled accordingly to be fair with the smaller rigs.

Why make it fair. They let buggies compete against 4wds. Let them have the disadvantage for a change.

Cheers Mick.

couldnt agree more.
or ban the buggies?

or just ban everything apart from 40 series