HELP! spoa conversion???

[zookkid]

what parts do i need (eg:longer shocks,extendted b/lines) and what is involved to do i need to do a SPOA conversion on a 93 swb hardtop 1.3l sierra

[want33s]

You'll need.... www.lowrangeoffroad.com
Basic Spring Over Axle Kit
This is the kit for those on a budget, or if you want to do some things on your own.

Standard kit includes:
- Front and Rear Sky HD Self-Aligning spring over axle pads
- Two 3/4" Drive Shaft Spacers (Specify Year)
- Coated Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines

Note: You will also want to look at our Steering Page for a steering correction. We suggest at least the OTS Stage 1 kit.

86-88.5
Price: US$199.00

88.5-95
Price: US$189.00

AND...
Sky-Man OTS Cross Over / Histeer Kit
Are you running a spring-over-axle and hate your steering? Drop pitman arms are not enough, and z-links can still allow bump-steer to be a constant hassle. In this crossover or "high-steer" kit, Sky uses massive Toyota FJ-80 Land Cruiser tie rod ends, almost 50% larger than weaker Suzuki ends. Weak tie rod end joints is the most common failure of a lot of the major "OTT" steering kits out there. They use smaller tie rod ends not built to take the pressure of off-roading and larger tires. Toyota FJ-80 joints also offer more deflection than that of other tie rod ends, so this gives you peace of mind when using them on a super flexy suspensions. Using Toyota ends also gives us the advantage of adjustable steering linkage, unlike other standard RH thread only kits on the market. Both kits can be installed in under an hour- no modifications are needed, fully bolt on and adjustable. The new steering arms are machined from solid billet steel. This kit is made to work with spring over axle kits, 4.5" of lift on up to and above 8".

Available in full kit that includes everything needed to move both drag link and tie rod over the springs and out of the way. Also available is the Stage 1 kit that come with drag link and passenger side steering arm to replace those z-links or the add-on Stage 2 kit to complete your stage 1 with the driver side arm and new tie rod.

Full Kit Price: US$359.00

Stage 1 Kit: US$185.00

Add-on Stage 2: US$185.00

Good luck with it. I'd say more SOA jobs have been scrapped than finished PROPERLY.

[Tim D]

Talk to an engineering signatory first.

[alien]

mines one of the "properly" ones... talk to an engineer before doing ANYTHING!!!

[lay80n]

Without trying to be rude, if you have to ask such a broad question, you probably need to do a lot more research into the modification before you attempt it. SPOA may seem easy and cheap to do - but to do properly it is not just a simple modification.

Have a search and look through the bible.

Layto....

[joeblow]

lay80n is right. be carefull. i have had to re-do many a spoa that were un-engineered, basically had to re do everything. alot of kits don,t take into account shock mounts, bumpstops etc. this is a BIG conversion, do your research. some people will say don't do one at all, but when done PROPERLY will be great.

[zookkid]

thans for the reply's .yer sorry it is such a broad question,its just i have recently bought the sierra,it is my second car as i am only 18 im tryin 2 learn as much as poss. about this conversion (without being ripped off-i was quoted $3200 supplied and fitted ) without a big budget, it is stock standard atm and almost immaculate ,now after hearind the cost of mods,im thinkin i shud really think bout selling and looking for sumthing abit rougher with almost evrething done,problem is i want a hard top as it will be my only car,most people jus do the soft tops but ill keep looking and thinkin bout wat im gna do.cheers

[alien]

mate, chuck some 2" leaves in there, with 225/75r15 tyres and go rip it up... after a year or so of driving it and reading up here, then consider your options.

Zuks are one of, if not the cheapest 4wd to mod.... buying one pre-modded also means buying other people mistakes.

[Gwagensteve]

$3200 is about right for a SPOA done properly at a workshop. It is a very involved conversion and there's lots of things that need money spent on them.


The big question is do you need a spoa? You don't need a SPOA to have a capable sierra, and you can run any size tyre a sierra driveline can handle without the hassle of a spoa conversion. I'd be throwing a 2" BL in the car, a rear locker, some 31's and get into it.
I guarantee if you do one cheaply it will cost you more in the long run because you'll have to pull it apart again and rehash it to get it right.

Steve.

[lay80n]

Steve is on the right track. If your only 18 and just got the car, go and wheel it stock for a bit, and get used to if. Figure out what you need to do, dont just think you HAVE to be SPOA.

Layto....

[Tim D]

SPOA is equal to about 5 to 6 inch lift,

I talked to an engineer about SPOA and have read on this forum that the extra load on the suspenion and steering handling you would need to add a panard rod like in coil spring setups, for him to engineer it.
I think it was "team crawler" a suzuki that went in tough truck a couple of years back, had SPOA hilux diffs with a panard, i think he was running 37 mtr's.

it is lots more road legal/ engineerable to simply have 2inch body and 2 inch leafs , IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2La1THa ... ed&search=

[lay80n]

SPOA is equal to about 5 to 6 inch lift,

I talked to an engineer about SPOA and have read on this forum that the extra load on the suspenion and steering handling you would need to add a panard rod like in coil spring setups, for him to engineer it.
I think it was "team crawler" a suzuki that went in tough truck a couple of years back, had SPOA hilux diffs with a panard, i think he was running 37 mtr's.

it is lots more road legal/ engineerable to simply have 2inch body and 2 inch leafs , IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2La1THa ... ed&search=

Germo Racing - Germo off this board, was the team in TTC. He has a panhard on the front of his lux diffed zook. Car was Mick from M&M before Ashley got it. Germo might chip in his opinion on it. Some leaf spring cars came with panhard from the factory - Daihatsu rocky for example.

Layto....

[germo]

i'll chip in.

I ran a panhard rod in the front to give the car good steering,
with the spoa and longer shackles the power steering would push the body / chassis until all the "slack" in the bushes was taken up then it would move the tyres. once I had a panhard in there it was ready to race! and It did handle better than my stock zook. was alot more stable (wider) and it had lots of grip (37" mtrs) and when I had the panhard in there it was fun to drive!

if I were to go spring over its something I would highly consider putting in there.
but I would change alot of things next time around

oh and you will have the most fun in a stock 4wd just wheeling and learning as you go and read on here.

my first mods were things like
bend straight the clips around the spring
it took me a while but I got rid of the sway bar. would never run one again, so comfortable (for a zook)
upgrade from 28" to silverstone 29" was amazed at the extra grip from different compound
went to 30" x 9.5 and found more grip
put a corolla carby on it!!! works well and handled hills and angles wel
put 2 1/2 inch exhaust (sounds good well for a zook)
got motor rebuilt
put 1" longer shakles in, suprized me how much it changed the steering (sharper due to knuckle angle forget correct name)
welded front diff and got a fat, but had to drive slower
chucked laps in newy in low range! (you had to be there)
put wide track diffs in
put 3.9 centres into wide tracks
put a thermo on
moved front diff forward about an inch or so. to the end of the pad
bashed the fire wall
fitted 31" simex centerpedes
cut the guards out (took the lip off the outside intended to fill in. never did and got hit in the head with mud chunks from simex)
retired 4wd and is still in parents backyard awaiting a rebirth although it lost the motor tyres and wide track diffs!
put a new gearbox into it at some stage aswell, rebuilt unis and wheel bearings, they all hate mud!

in saying all that I first met redzook at jamboree duneedoo in his spoa red zook, mine was stock except the 30", engine rebuild, exhaust and carby.
tim was only interested in the rocks as me and a mate asked hime to join us in the 3 car mud event and found out early that tim doesn't do mud!
anyways he was only maybe 17 and now look at him! he is a 4wd freak though
oh yeah and we did win the mud! go the high top!

ok enough rant

make up you own mind everyone is different

ashley

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

I talked to an engineer about SPOA and have read on this forum that the extra load on the suspenion and steering handling you would need to add a panard rod like in coil spring setups, for him to engineer it.

This is what I had to go through for a registration, the engineer was not happy with the movement in the front shackles when moving the steering wheel, though at the time the bushes I was running were quite flogged out which didn't help. But because of my power steering as to what Germo said it would push everything else first then move the wheels which wasn't good. Because welding on the chassis would have required more certificates and as the Panhard bar wasn't considered a major suspension component I was able to use 'U' bolts plate and a VK Commodore Panhard bar which i made adjustable and I had the bracket of the Diff cut of the VK and cut it up a bit and fitted it up to the front of my sierra. The fit is very tight and Ive had it up the RTi ramp and it all clears. Though things are really tight it being Leaf spring means there is alot less room to work with in where the springs end up on up travel. I now have a Pedders fully adjustable bar which I will be fitting up soon. It now steers and the ride is alot better and it still flex's all right as well.

Some of the first ideas


Very tight fit


Can just make it all the other bits and pieces around the diff

[Gwagensteve]

Mud-Pig - It'd be a fabrication nightmare, but the ideal situation would be to have the panhard and drag link in the same plane. This would require quite a tall bracket on the diff end of the panhard but should eliminate any bump steer.

Steve.

[zookkid]

so what wud u guys reccommend doing eg. lifts and tyes instead of doing an spoa conversion??

[weaves]

this is what i've done.

i've had my zook for almost 6 weeks now. i purchased it in its standard form like this (minus the dent down the door)


in the last three weeks i've added

Tyres - maxxis trepadors 31x10.5x15
rims - 15x8 -28 offset
springs - OME 2" lifted springs and bushes
body lift - 2" again (bought off suzukigav, worked a treat and stopped all scrubbing)
grinded bits and peices. hammered bits and peices
and it now looks like this just dirtier


i have gained a good 5-6" of lift after the springs settled. all mods are just remove and replace jobs. no fabrication work and i have spent no where near the $3200 you where quoted. i do still however need to do the shocks and bump stops.

the offroad capability of this thing now is awesome... its strong stable and best of all cops haven't noticed it.... yet

weaves

[Gwagensteve]

That's a pretty good basis for how to build a capable, simple car.

31's really are plenty on a sierra and a 2" BL pretty much clears them fine, then suspension can be modified to gain ride and travel as you wish. (suspension lift does not help clear tyres)

Your car is a WT, so it will be wider and therefore more stable than weaves NT.

I like OME suspension - they're the best springs available IMHO.

Remember to fit diff breathers before you go off road.

Steve.

[zookkid]

haha yer i recently went to dropzone with the standard breathers,not a good idea,wat if i was just to do a hilux diff swap instead of redoing the zook diffs?does that bypass engineering because the spring seats are already there? wouldnt that be alot cheaper?wat kind of offset rims would i need?

[Gwagensteve]

Stop making this a billion times more complicated than it needs to be. You're just starting out - you don't need a huge car or a complicated build. Really, you don't. There's lots of big builds around, and they're pretty much that - builds. The bigger the car, the less time it spends on the road and the more time it spends in the shed. That's just a fact.

The engineering issues of the SPOA have nothing to do with where the spring pads are (they have to be moved on hilux diffs anyway) or what axles you start with. It's all to do with lift and handling. Hilux diffs add their own series of complicated and possibly expensive problems.

Basically, It will cost more to SPOA hilux diffs than sierra diffs, (on top of the cost of the diffs) as you will have to do more work with brakes etc.

Just build a sensible balanced car and let your driving skill catch up.

steve.

[zookkid]

alright cheers.. i'll look into spring/shackle, body lifts then, the comments i hav received sound quite convincing and cheaper.. thanx for the advice boys .i need as much of it as i can get atm

[Turbo Tonka]

hey mate,i have just started building up my 2nd zook.and once again ive only gone with the 2" springs,2"bodylift and some bit longer shackles.Both have had OME springs which are alot better than mine and dads old zook with Lovells i feel.All have had 31x10's and you have a cheapo capable car that when driven right will go anywhere.Saves hassles when it all bolts up.Get a locker and enjoy

[Guy]

Things to spend $$ on if you want a capable sierra .. in no particular order ..

1. Traction .. Get lockers
2. Grip ..Get Tyres
3. clearance .. get springs and bumpstop spacers or a bodylift
4. Gears 5.x to 1 low range gears make a huge difference.



Dont be afraid to chop it off if it is in the way. One day if I build another Zuk I will want about a 33x10 tyre on almost no lift .. its only metal that you dont need .. but some of my fab work is err "booty" at best.

[zookkid]

so if i was to get a sring lift,does that mean the springs are more of a "U" shape?doesnt that affect the overall spring droop/compress? (is it the flatter the better?,sorry im still learning)an with a body lift wud i b able 2 get away with a 2 inch lift without any other modifications?but don't the body spacers put alot of strain on the metal surrounding the actual spacer causing it 2 stretch?...cheers

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, it does mean the springs have more of a "U" shape and yes, that does affect the overall spring "droop/compress" - It means that for the stock 5" of front travel, you will have more compression and less droop. 2" of lift is a happy medium, 3" of lift results in inadequate droop resulting in a choppy ride.

A flatter spring will generally ride better, but in a sierra a flat spring won't allow enough compression travel to prevent bottoming which makes the ride worse.

Have a read of this: It might help you a bit.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... 97#1147697


I have been installing body lifts in sierras for about 10 years have have never seen damage to a car caused by the body lift. The theory is that the solid block against the body will cause the body to crack. This would be the case regardless of the BL height. Like I have said though - It doesn't seem to be a problem.

Don't go over 2" for a body lift. 3" is uneccessary and causes more headaches with fitment and makes the car look spooky tall and the /BL very obvious.

Steve.

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

Yes if I was to build again it would be :

33 x10.5 tires, airlockers front back, latest lowest reduction gears, extended shock towers and mounts. Cut guards and lifted to the max. Power steering, aircon and a 1.6 motor. And then all the other little mods you do to the cabin as usual.

[cjdeane10]

i have 2" BL, 2" shackles and have 3" springs on the way (from the US) - currently have original (flat) springs, and 30" tyres.

Been 'getting there' for the last 9 months, do bit-by-bit as i find out more about my zook, but i should be able to fit a 33 x 10.5 tyre under there easily when the springs arrive(with a bit of bashing, just coz)

SPOA looks scary, is cop-bait (if not registered) and you can get everywhere you will need to go with the above.

Seriously, you will be getting past your mates stock in a sierra 4x4ing even if they have spent big money on their landy/pootrol

p.s. plans (over the next 9 mths) are lockers, and gears, and then hopefully the motor will die, and the 'war office' will let me upgrade that too.

[zookkid]

well ive just ordered 2'' shackles. i was gna get sum new 31's ,but iv bin offerd 2nd hand 32's will they fit?atleast 4 a while .ill prob do 2'' springs 2 so take that into considerstion.

cheers
jez.

[alien]

2" shackles will give 1" of lift, plus your 2" spring lift you'll need to do some body work to clear 32s...

[zookkid]

so ill jus b beta off gettin sum 31's wit the shackles an springs ay?