Discovery vs Pajero vs Cherokee vs Prado vs ???

[Andres]

The girlfriend and I are looking at a bit of a lifetsyle change, potentially buying/renting a small inner city apartment/masionette with a lot less room for our toys. Currently we have between us a '79 MGB, '74 BMW 2002, '86 60 Series and a Honda CBR250RR. We're considering consolidating down to the MGB as a sunny-Sunday driver and a later model mid-size 4WD for everything else.

While I drive the 60 series a few days a week, the GF doesn't really love driving it in town and we wouldn't have the space/time to have it off the road for a week while doing home maintenance/repairs etc as we do now. We also don't need a car that big (just the two of us + dog), and would appreciate a few more mod-cons! (i.e. coil springs, less road noise mainly)

Thinkng a sub $20,000 budget for the 4WD, preferable closer to $15,000.
It would have to be pleasant to drive/park as it would be our primary transport.
It would need to be capable of the 'tougher' touring conditions (Cape York / Simpson crossing), but would rarely/never be used for rock crawling / mudding / silly(fun) stuff.
I'd imagine it would end up with no bigger than 33" tyres, more along the lines of Cooper ST etc. (i.e. no big muddies!). Setup for touring essentially.

I guess I'm trying to convey that it would have to be very capable for throwing the swags in the back for a long weekend camping trip almost anywhere, but be very comfortable for the weekday driving.

This has led me to considering:

Post '98 S2 Discovery (favourite at the moment)
Mitsu Pajeros (not sure what they're engines are like)
Jeep Cherokee (not really keen on them)
Toyota Prado (not really a fan of the available engines <$20K, and the seem to attract the 'Toyota Tax')

It seems that these 4 cars will be quite comfortable as daily drivers (have driven a 2003 TD5 quite a few times and a mid 90s Paj, and early 90s Cherokee) and, not suprisingly, were miles ahead than the 60-series in terms of comfort and general on-road manners.

Fuel consumption is important, but not a deal-breaker. Theoretically if we are living in the city our kms travelled a week won't be that high. However Adelaide is a long way from a lot of fun places, so fuel would make a difference on a trip up North etc. I'd really prefer a diesel as well.

One concern is reliability and 'outback' parts availability though. I'd hate to be stuck in Birdsville (well not really, it's a lovely place!) for a week while some rare part gets shipped in and then the local mechanics have never worked on one before!

The other concern is off-road ability. I've always though that these cars were a bit 'soft' when compared to the Cruisers/Patrols - but how 'soft' are they? Will I be able to do a Simpsons crossing or Cape York type trip with the right tyres and a few basic 'bolt-on' accessories?

Sorry about the 'essay' but I hope if I express my reasoning I can get some really useful opinions from everyone!

PS: 80 series and GQs are obviously in the price bracket too, but they just hold their price so well that they are not really great value for what we want. I realise they will be more capable off-road, have cheaper mods, and better towing/storage capacity etc, but that isn't really important to us at the moment. I know the pros of these vehicles, so don't really need that repeated too much!

[-Scott-]

I may be biassed but I think an NL td Pajero will do all that you want. Only downside is that it's not a particularly powerful or efficient engine within that class. No significant problems, but not a stand-out in any way.

Disco is a nice vehicle as well, certainly a capable 4wd, but I don't know that much about them.

Cherokee - it's a Jeep thing I don't understand.

Prado is nice too - my father has a 2000 td, takes him everywhere he needs to go, td engine is better than the Paj. Toyota LSDs aren't particularly good, lately I've been reading about rear diff failures but I suspect that's limited to a particular batch.

The NL Paj was the culmination of 15 years of evolution, and they are very well sorted. Rear diff is comparatively large and strong, rear LSD works very well. 33" tyres fit without much trouble (use Patrol rims - or you can put 32" tyres on the factory alloys).

I've taken my Paj to Cape York, Fraser Island, across the Simpson - no dramas.

[chikoroll_]

go the prado
the standard 180L fuel tank will get you a long way
i don't know how well they are for driving though


if you are willing to consider something else- the Jackaroo is sweet, huge mirrors, heaps of head room, simple mod to give an extra 6" of leg room, good load rating, power, all the bells and whistles, excellent for comfort- for passengers also
huge rear diff,
IFS makes for excellent front clearance- the equivalent of running 33" as stock... just watch out for the ramp over, but it beats the listed vehicles
...be prepared for the fuel bill...

[Suspension Stuff]

I have a 96 Grande Cherokee myself, but there is no option for that.

Shane

[Andres]

I may be biassed but I think an NL td Pajero will do all that you want.

Just had a bit of a read and I reckon a Pajero might be a good way to go.

Looking at the SWB might be interesting. What's yours like on petrol? A mate had a mid 90s SWB and from memory it actually went pretty damn nicely on the road, never saw anything more than a farm paddock though. Seems like a pretty tidy car can be had in the mid to low $1X,XXX.

Would have to re-think out packing strategy for long trips though - everything but the kitchen sink fits on and in the 60-series!

Bit confused with the engine options in the Paj though! haha

3.5 and 3.0 V6. And some are DOHC others SOHC.
Then there's a couple of diesels as well?!

[r0ck_m0nkey]

Toyota Prado (not really a fan of the available engines <$20K, and the seem to attract the 'Toyota Tax')

Just throwing in my biased Prado opinion As i bought one to use for similar usage as you've described. Why aren't you a fan of the engine choices? For $20k should be able to find either a GXL TD 90 or Grande V6 90

Firstly, the dual tanks is a big plus in my opinion. Others can be modified to achieve the same fuel capacity but it's just one less thing to worry about. Even a V6 Petrol model is going to see you get 1200km's out of the tanks if you're not to heavily loaded and doing mostly open road type driving.

They are just a typical boring Toyota to drive. Nothing unusual or strange, just jump in and drive. Comfort is fairly comparable to anything else. Strength wise, they are just the usual 7.5" front diff, 8" rear with a dodgy LSD so as strong as any other IFS Toyota, don't abuse it and it will be fine. Unsure of the other models, but the Transfer case is mechanically operated via a lever and no fancy vacuum or electrically operated setup some later models start to suffer from which i have never trusted.

Not saying it's the right choice for you, but should be a serious option. The only issue the Prado has is the dash comes loose after constant bouncing along corrugated roads and vibrates like hell and is very annoying. It's a relatively simple process to add extra brackets to strengthen it all up and to stop it happening.

[Loanrangie]

Late model TD5 disco - the others are just pretenders.

[built4thrashing]

from ya list your gonna get more options and goodies for ya money in the jeep.

Im currently looking at the same upgrade. My current choice is the 2.7L td lerado with 5speed auto. Comes with all the luxo bits and is pretty good on fuel. 10.2L/100km average. Better value for money in my eyes and after market bits are out there . gust need to order them from the states.

as for touring my sister and brother in law are currently taking their V8 lerado up to NT via the WA coast towing a caravan. Aparently its doin it easy.

But the choice is entirely yours to make.

[-Scott-]

I may be biassed but I think an NL td Pajero will do all that you want.

Just had a bit of a read and I reckon a Pajero might be a good way to go.

Looking at the SWB might be interesting. What's yours like on petrol?

I want a diesel. With body lift, suspension lift and 33" STTs it's a thirsty beast - I typically budget 15l/100km on the highway (can do better, but that's budget) and 20l/100 offroad. Tank size isn't great either - 75l stock. I did the body lift so I could get a larger custom tank, and it's still only 120l. But I have room for an auxiliary (perhaps 50l) if I ever need to.

A mate had a mid 90s SWB and from memory it actually went pretty damn nicely on the road,

Cruises quite happily at 110km/h, although hills see me row back a gear more often with the 33s. The short wheelbase gets a little twitchy on some surfaces, but all the lift I have probably doesn't help.

Would have to re-think out packing strategy for long trips though - everything but the kitchen sink fits on and in the 60-series!

Definitely. I can pack everything needed for two to tour quite comfortably, but it's a bit of a chinese puzzle - everything in it's place, and it's got to be packed in the right order. I will be upgrading to something larger in the next year or two, and I will get a diesel.

Bit confused with the engine options in the Paj though! haha

3.5 and 3.0 V6. And some are DOHC others SOHC.
Then there's a couple of diesels as well?!

Forget the 3.0. They're getting older now, and '96 - '00 were all 3.5. Only downside is lack of rear locker for the 3.5 diff - if you think that's an issue (I don't.) But the LSDs are good, and ARB are developing a rear locker, and there's already a front locker - if you think you'll need it (I love mine, not that I need it often.) Earlier 3.5s were DOHC, apparently harder to work on, more power but less torque down low. Later 3.5s are SOHC, better torque down low, but less power up high.

If you're talking diesels, I hope you don't want an auto. Don't do the 2.5. Nothing particularly wrong with them, just slower than the 2.8, and they're in the older vehicles. The 2.8 is adequate for highway cruising, more fuel efficient than the petrols, and reasonably reliable. Some reports of cracked heads, but I don't believe they're that common. If it dies, replace it with the DiD (released in the Gen 3, and start around 30k these days.) Essentially the same block, better power and economy.

Cheers,

Scott

[amtravic1]

Absolutely no contest. If you like driving and are prepared to ignore all the clowns who say Land Rovers are unreliable then get a Disco.

[thehanko]

I dont have personal experience with them but have shied away from jeeps before due to lots of talk of regular repairs - have heard rumour that pretty much get the highest number of repairs / km of the manufacturers.

Has anyone else got thought on this? someone who can say had one and was shite or had one and never had an issue?

They do seem to be pretty cheap to buy and fuel up though.

[built4thrashing]

i think that was the case with older jeeps but the newer ones are alot better. the only repair my sister has had to do was replace the petrol tank after running over a bit of metal on the hwy and stabbing a hole in it.. nothing has broken yet and they do take it off road with the jeep owners club.

[coxy321]

I clicked "none", but "other" probably would be a better answer for me.

I'd get a GQ/Maverick SWB, 4.2 petrol on LPG. Reasonably small, cheap to run, cheap to buy, cheap to repair, easy to mod if you want. Plus you'll have enough money left over for a nice touring trip.

Coxy

[TRobbo]

The disco would have to be the most capable of the lot (provided you get one with a centre diff lock or have one fitted aftermarket) but I dont know if you will get a diesel in your price range. The v8 may prove just a bit too thirsty otherwise.
If that is the case, i would go the prado. touring range is fantastic and imo is well suited to being a tourer and d.d.

[tasar]

you should consider the WJ Jeep grand cherokee - especially if you can find the 2.7l merc crd

the v8's are a great motor - just a little thirsty 14-16 l per 100k

a 2in lift and 31 in tyres they are an ideal size very capable especially with quadradrive(front and rear lsd's)

extremely comfortable vehicle

lots of parts

very under rated vehicle

[Andres]

Coxy (and the rest) - the last option 'none' should really be 'none of the above' OR 'other'. Sorry, made it a little misleading.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions - kinda what I had thought to some extent (i.e. disco most capable etc). Still need lots more reading, but I'm actually quite interested in the Pajeros. Seem to be a nice balance between value, on road manners, off road abilty and decent reliability.

I reckon the Jeeps would be damn nice around town, and reasonably capable, but I'd hate to think how common parts for it would be at anywhere apart from the capital cities.

Prado would be great, but you really don't get a whole lot unless you spend quite a few dollars. A pajero on the other hand can be found for reasonable dollars and quite a few are already fitted with the basic - bullbar, spotties, roofracks, etc. Which can add up to a few grand if you have to buy yourself.

But with all that said, might just be easier to spend a few dollars on the 60 series, get some more 'compromising' tyres and make sure all the steering geometry is set up nicely etc which would hopefully tame the highway manners a bit.

[Duff]

i also clicked none. i just bought a GU patrol yesterday for 17K. this was for a petrol 4.5 but was the top of the range TI with sunroof, leather, power everything, factory diff lock and duel climate control. It was also converted to LPG already. For the money i dont think you can beat a car like this.

have a look at this one this would have been my choice but its too far away for me

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/pr ... ake=NISSAN

[Troopy93]

From what I've seen of the Pajeros that regularly come on our trips , you'd be hard pressed to get something more capable with only minor mods, 33's and front lockers.

Also removing the sway bars gives them great articulation especially on the rear.

Diff wise they are streets ahead of Prado's in size and strength. Get the last of the separate chassis model and you'll have a great vehicle.