Outback Challange 2008

[baytech]

Just spoke to Todd some more. Up till last night when Paul V came out to the camp Todd and Ivan were running 1st by80 points then gave them the 100 point penalty from tuesdays stage were Normy gave him his tail shaft. They did todays stages in 1st gear for they had no front brakes and only some back brakes and no clutch. Had a blow out on one of the stages at night and now have had another blow out on there way back into BH.
Dale

So what do the rules say!!! I thought you could be given a part from someone else in your group and not get a penalty against you. But if the rules state that then who else will be up for penalty's.

Todd and Ivan you have done a great job. You will always be the winners to us. You deserve it. WELL DONE BOYS. And I am sure there are many others out there that think the same as us (That news would upset anyone in your position and I am sure your driving efforts would not have been as good due to this news)

I really feel sorry for the person who really wants to win to shaft the people at the top. So to you who ever you are if you have the money to protest go for it.

Lis

[def90]

cheers maddog, hope the little monster 90 finishes in an ok position

[Ruffy]

Disclaimer:I wasn't there so this is not at all an accusation or implication.
You are allowed to borrow SPARE parts from another competitor, not take parts from there car.
Last year we were in a similar position with wanting to take a tyre and rim off another competitor but our passage controller advised we would need to take a penalty to do so.
In Todd's situation the passage controller either, didn't know it happened, made the wrong decision or wasn't informed it was going to happen. This is where the problem lies.
If the passage controller wasn't asked then unfortunately that is where the problem lies.
If the passage controller was informed and didnot advise there would be a penalty attatched then the P/C needs a wrap over the knucles.

We got ripped last year with a last minute point score alteration in the last SS of the Cliffhanger which gave Todd and Ivan the win over us so i know how he is feeling, it sucks when Beauacracy takes over.
Dan

[Matt N]

So what do the rules say!!! I thought you could be given a part from someone else in your group and not get a penalty against you. But if the rules state that then who else will be up for penalty's.

As far as I know you are allowed to resource parts within your group but organisers have clarified that these parts must be spare parts and not a part that is still in use.

RULES:
8.32. OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE
The objective of the Event is for Crews to be self-sufficient and compete and drive in a manner that preserves the vehicle and equipment in a safe and competitive condition and provides the best opportunity to complete the Event free of major breakdown and without the need for outside assistance.
The spare parts and tools carried by the Crew should recognise this objective and in particular the likely requirements of the vehicle during the Event.
Outside Assistance is assistance provided or organised by the Event Director through the Event Vehicle Support System, and attracts a 100 point penalty each time it is used.
Assistance, including the supply of spare parts or tools and consumables, by another competing Crew does not attract a penalty.
Assistance or tangible support from spectators or others is not permitted and may result in the assisted Crew being disqualified from that SS and/or the Event. DO NOT GET HELP OR PARTS FROM SPECTATORS.

The rules say nothing about the part being in use. I would fight it.

EDIT:

You are allowed to borrow SPARE parts from another competitor, not take parts from there car.

The rules are written too vaugely, (open to interpretation) they should be more specific. They do not mention anything about taking parts off another vehiche, so in theory it should be allowed.

[RUFF]

The rules say nothing about the part being in use. I would fight it.

Although it sounds like Normy's Tail shaft was not a Spare Part it was removed from his vehicle. This is what the organisers will argue.

If the Passage Controller told them there was no penalty for using the shaft from Norms car then there is nothing to argue. They should not receive the penalty.

[moose]

just spoke to Rob , where in the top 10 group 2day !!
getting ready for presentation !!

bretts car is going so well , Birdy is driving that back to Melb .........
cause....
timing chain was pulled from Greenys tow car , so thats on a trailer !

lets see who wins , in an hour or 2 !!

[Matt N]

The rules say nothing about the part being in use. I would fight it.

Although it sounds like Normy's Tail shaft was not a Spare Part it was removed from his vehicle. This is what the organisers will argue.

If the Passage Controller told them there was no penalty for using the shaft from Norms car then there is nothing to argue. They should not receive the penalty.

See my edit above.

Fair enough, But can't loaning a tailshaft be classified under just giving general "Assistance" or am I being too anal about reading the rules ?

[2dextreme]

What happened was Todd was given the tail shalf from Normy because they said that they were out. Then Normy had a go at the next stage only to by time for another competitor to repair his car.So they have demend that Normy's car was still drivable. Now this was quoted to me by someone in the same group as Todd's there were also other parts taken from other cars for other car to keep them going so why didn't they get the penalty.
The a hole who put the protest up still hasn't put up the money or shown his face. But in this case the protest should be retrieved the protest. But it has gone to the committee and they are up still going ahead with the protest the protest.It sounds like they are just making a example of this for further comps. What they really need to do is fix the ruling so it is black and white
Dale

[The Fish]

I would expect a "spare part" is just that, a SPARE part.

From past experience I was of the understanding that a repair such as Todd and Ivan's front tailshaft replacement should have been recorded by the passage controller, who I believe was watching the work being carried out, and hopefully Todd or Ivan seeked clarification from the passage controller about the chance of being penalised.

So ultimately the answer to this situation rests with what was/wasn't discussed with the passage controller or his/her lack of involvement.

The rule does need to be clearer because I wouldn't like to see a lesser competitve team compete alongside a highly competitive team and sacrifice their entire event by being a complete spare vehicle for the other team. The rule may allow this the way it is written

What ever way this turns out I hope all the facts are taken into account and the right decision is made as decisions made in the past haven't always been excepted well by the majority.

Goodluck to all competitors at presentation.

The Fish

[RUFF]

No matter how Black and White you make a set of rules people will still interpret them differently. Especially if no example has ever been made. Writing rules is a very difficult jub. Interpreting them exactly as they are written is just as hard.

Im not sure i agrea on the protester being an asshole. Most competitions are getting pretty serious these days and although we are still not compeating for sheepstations we are compeating for bragging rights and personally i think this means a lot more to most competitors world wide than any prizes.

[tom_286]

The a hole who put the protest up...

Dale

Firstly I'm not going to comment on if Todd & Ivan should get a penalty or not, I dont know all the facts of what happened.

But calling someone an arse hole before you know all the facts isn't cool. Who ever put the protest foward clerarly feels the rules have been breached, and it is their right to put in a protest! Weather the rules have been broken or not is irelevant.


But what ever happens its been an eventful week and I'm looking foward to seeing the results

[MUD EMPIRE]

calling someone an arse hole before you know all the facts isn't cool. Who ever put the protest foward clerarly feels the rules have been breached, and it is their right to put in a protest! Weather the rules have been broken or not is irelevant.

Well said...........it will be a fair outcome for all.

[2dextreme]

But calling someone an arse hole before you know all the facts isn't cool. Who ever put the protest foward clerarly feels the rules have been breached, and it is their right to put in a protest! Weather the rules have been broken or not is irelevant.


But what ever happens its been an eventful week and I'm looking foward to seeing the results

I think I know the facts more then you.
What ever the out come it was a hell of a weeks competition.

[tom_286]

I think I know the facts more then you.

I don't doubt that.

[pig 83]

someone must know something by now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HG]

Been watching for ages now ...... Details/results needed and more pics

[Ruffy]

Just got off the phone to Muppet, The presentation hasn't started yet!!
The whole tail shaft "inquisition" has dragged on and appears to be maring an otherwise good evening.
A little longer to wait kids.
Dan

It's a shame that this has came between friends. Hopefully all parties can see past it an continue to shake hands and compete as comrades in the future.

[turps]

So by Normy saying he was out. Does that make him a spectator?
Also if he says he is DNS. Why is he being let run?
And if its about taking stuff from cars temperaly out. Then there's potential for heaps more protests. As cars heading back to BH on a truck are often stripped of parts/fuel.
So many issues, not enough care factor. All this for a swag.

Now who won.

Oh and somewhere on my camera I have pics of Hoons busted arse car. Taken at night though. As I forgot during the day. Even after they fixed it it looked sad. They hit a set of triple jumps and landed on the up ramp and broke some stuff (never seen a busted swival housing before). This was friday arvo at viewmont. Was sorta fixed at 12am.

[MUD EMPIRE]

Oh and somewhere on my camera I have pics of Hoons busted arse car. Taken at night though. As I forgot during the day. Even after they fixed it it looked sad. They hit a set of triple jumps and landed on the up ramp and broke some stuff (never seen a busted swival housing before). This was friday arvo at viewmont. Was sorta fixed at 12am.

Pete will never be the type to give in..........after the damage that was done to the HOON car it's a wonder that he and Andrew could piece it back together.....
I'm told (not confirmed), that they took out a stage win this-morning in 'their busted arse car'

GO HOON....!!

I'ts gonna be one hell of a DVD

Cheers to all teams

[turps]

It actually didnt take them that long to fix. New swival hub, cv and brake line. Plus re-straigtening the tie-rod and it was as good as it was going to get. It still has a bent chassi and a bent swival ball. Rear axle looked good last night.

And knowing where they were on the track I doubt either team (the two big bingles at Viewmont) where going as fast as they say. But still they where both big hits. And proves cages, harness and helmets are a good thing. As they both bled off 80-90km/h in the space of 20-30m's.
And both teams where laughing after it.

[moose]

com'on turps ........... WHATS HAPPENING ?????

[turps]

Buggered if I know moose. I am sitting on my arse in Bendigo. Couldnt be arsed going to BH for the presentations. After 2weeks of working our arses off we where buggered. Just wanted to get home.

[moose]

ahhh !! thought you might still be up there !!!!

in that case , move ya arse & get some pics up !!!!!

[turps]

no cos your a bosy bum I aint going to.

I actually not sure how to resize on this computer.

[Big-Fella4x4]

C'mon guys, its 11.30pm and I have just got back from a meeting to read the results, so surely someone must know by now.

Or are they all still protesting the protestors.

GO TODDY AND IVAN. No matter what happens they are all winners just for the entertainment.

Good luck everyone.

Duncan

[The Fish]

Presentations are underway but they are dragging it out. Hope they have got plenty of grog

[Big-Fella4x4]

Just spoke to Todd, Muppets is the overall winner and Todd is still waiting to hear if he and Ivan will get 2nd. due to the controversy.

[james feeney]

Here are the official results.






















Sorry, bad joke. This is worse than reality TV.

I'm still rooting for a high UK finish

James

[RedlineMike]

Here are the official results.






















Sorry, bad joke. This is worse than reality TV.

I'm still rooting for a high UK finish

James

Ditto

[The Fish]

They have just announced the trophy class top 10 with the winners being..................






Peter and Jane Von pein

A well deserved win, well done guys.