Clutch arm problems!

Post by **BenDover** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:40 pm

Hi All,

About 2 years ago (on the eve of a camping trip) the bolt inside the bellhousing that connects the clutch arm shaft to the thrower bearing snapped. It sheared off completely at both ends. So I pulled the gearbox out and replaced the bolt with a new high-tensile one.

This week I am having similar symptoms as before. I am having to continually tighten the clutch cable (like every 10km!). So I have ripped out the gearbox AGAIN and inspected the bolt. It looks to me like it has started to bend but it doesnt really look like it is bending enough to warrant the amount of adjusting I have been having to do on the clutch cable.

Everything else looks ok. New HD clutch was put in not long ago by myself and replaced all the bearings while I was at it. So that stuff is ok.

Can someone help? Any ideas? Why would this bolt be breaking again? I cant see that it would be under that great a pressure. It was designed this way. Has anyone else had similar issues?

I have attached some pics so you can see what I am talking about.

Cheers
Ben

[img]c:\Pic1[/img]
[img]c:\Pic2[/img]

Post by **BenDover** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:46 pm

Ok I dont know how to put pics up. Can someone tell me?

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:10 pm

Open an account with a pic hosting site such as www.photobucket.com

Once you've uploaded the pics to photobucket, copy the "IMG Code" line and paste it into your post here.

Post by **BenDover** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:41 pm

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated. Ok here are the pics...I hope this works!

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:12 pm

Check you clutch fork. Mine was doing similar, then something snapped. I thought it was my clutch cable. Turned out to be the fork.

Check to see if there's any bending evident.

Post by **BenDover** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:11 am

I assume this is the clutch fork? Doesnt look to be bent to me. Look ok to you? Im at a loss now. I hope I havent pulled the gearbox out for no reason! Any more ideas anyone? I need to get this fixed today as I need it for work and have taken the day off to fix it...

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:37 am

No, the fork is the part that actually disengages the clutch. Have a look at the manual....downloadable from WARFS.

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:43 am

Hello my friend i believe the solution to your problem is that you have to use a GROVER (i dont know how to spell it) that is a rign that has one cut and tights the bolt i a way that want come out.

Here is somehow the ring i am telling you

Between the bolt and the branch

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:48 am

Also chech out when you press the clutch to change gears there are some bolts behind your foot chech it. Here is the page with manuals http://www.warfs.org/content/view/16/47/

Post by **BenDover** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:12 am

Ferozamaniac: The grover you are talking about is it the one that bends up at the front and prevents the bolt from undoing? If it is then it already has one and is doing its job fine. You have to somehow bend it back down in order to undo the bolt.

On closer inspection of the bolt I think it actually is the bolt bending again! Argh!

Heres another pic taken while the clutch arm is engaged so you can see the bolt clearer. What would be causing this? And how on earth do i bend that steel down to undo the bolt? It was easier last time...the head had already sheared completely off...

Post by **BenDover** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:00 pm

Ok think I found the problem...as I was undoing the bolt the bottom half of it snapped off and the top half of the bolt was about to snap. Looked at the thread inside the clutch release fork lever and the top half of it was all smooth! So the bolt was only threaded into the bottom half and therefore extra stress and pressure on it. So I phoned Daihatsu and its a 4 week wait for a new one!!! Only $55 though thats not bad. But I couldnt wait so took it down to mechanic and got him to put a new 8mm thread insert into it and now it should be fine.

So now I get to put it all back together and test it!

Will let you know if any more probs but thanks for your help and input. Might wanna keep this in mind in case someone else has a similar problem.

Cheers
Ben

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:56 pm

My friend i would like to ask you before the bolt was going to snap did the arm made some weird noise when you where pressing to change gears? Because over a year now i steal have that noise (and the DAIHATSU service where telling there is no problem) and today i went into another Daihatsu service and i was informed that is the same problem with yours? Can you please tell me step by step how you took down the transfer case? Thank you very much

Post by **MightyMouse** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:54 am

I havn't investigated this so it could be so much hot air - but is there a mechanical clutch stop somewhere in the system ( pedal box ? ).

Is it possible that instead of the pedal bottoming out on a stop you are
actually overtraveling the release arm and therefore trying to move it
too far - with obvious results ?

Perhaps the cable attachment at the transmission is over adjusted - leading to excessive movement on the fork ?

Heaps of travel is not required - once the clutch is released the extra movement does nothing.

As I said - don't know any of this for a fact, but can't hurt to look.

Post by **BenDover** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:39 am

Ferozamaniac: No there wasnt any weird noise either time it happened. The symptoms are not being able to find gears easily and it gradually (or quickly) gets worse. After tightening the cable it is fine and then goes back to being difficult. Of course the first thing you'd check is that the nut for the cable adjustment isnt undoing. But to drop it out you first need to drain the oil from the gearbox and transfer case. Undo the 4 bolts holding the rear and front drive shafts in and remove them. Then undo all the bolts holding the gearbox to the engine (Theres approx 8-10 of them). Then remove the breather hose from the top of the gearbox and also unplug the 2 electrical plugs. Then how you take the gearbox down is up to you. I found getting a friend to hold up the rear of the gearbox while you undo the eight bolts holding the cross member up the best. Easier on me!

Then slide the gearbox back until the shaft is clear of the clutch and lower down. A trolley jack can also be of use. Getting the gearbox back in can be a bit of a pain as the splines on the shaft need to match up in the clutch. The person holding the rear of the gearbox needs to rotate the shaft from the back until it slides in. Then just reverse the earlier process! Perhaps your noise could just be a dry shaft that is squeaking as it rotates through the spring? See pic to see what I mean...

MightyMouse: Yes heaps of travel is not required only just enough to engage the clutch. So when adjusting the clutch cable nut I always make sure the clutch engages in the last 15% of the pedal stroke. So no I dont think its over tightened or travelling too far. But good suggestion and thanks for the input.

I honestly think it was the thread that caused it cause where the breaks were in the bolt matched up with where the thread started and finished. But this also lines up with your theory MightyMouse because it does sound like there is too much pressure on it. But I just dont see where! I wish I had a window in the gearbox so I could see......

But its all back together now and drives great. Lets hope this doesnt happen again!

Website · Post by **murcod** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:53 pm

In the service manual there are measurements for the clutch pedal height from the floor- might be worth checking?

Post by **BenDover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:59 am

Ok folks...I'm having to resurrect this post again!

Over the past week the shifting is getting worse. First is almost impossible to get. So most time i'll turn the engine off, shift into first and then start it up.

I need help! What could be doing this??? The clutch has always engaged in the last few cm's so clutch travel shouldnt be it. The only other two possibilities are:

1: The engine and gearbox mounts need replacing and so the extra amount of movement has stressed the bolt again.

2: The clutch lever could be moving sideways in the bellhousing when the clutch is being engaged and sideways pressure is stressing the bolt.

I might go to the Daihatsu wreckers to check another gearbox and see if there is something wrong with mine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as im even thinking of just trading it in!

I really dont want to drop the gearbox out til I know what the issue is.

Cheers
Ben

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:22 am

Have you checked the wire that goes from the the clutch petal to the gearbox? Might be to tight or to loose?

Post by **BenDover** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:37 pm

Yes I replaced that the first time it started happening as I thought it was the cable stretching.

Is there any chance worn/soft gearbox and engine mounts would cause this? Im thinking outside the square here but would the movement from the engine/gearbox put undue stress on the bolt while the clutch is engaged? Then taking off, combined with the torque from the engine, would bend the bolt?

Thoughts anyone? I REALLY want to get this nutted out! Dont want to do it a fourth time!

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:25 am

You can go to a mechanic and ask him if can someone create a bolt identical with the clutch bolt but made by some tougher and harder to brake material.

Post by **BenDover** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:32 am

Thats true but still no guarantee it wont happen. Its already high tensile and shouldnt be happening. What gets me is that is seems like im the only one who has experienced this problem?

Perhaps when I pull the box out I will go to the Daihatsu wreckers and get another arm etc.

At this point this I think I will get a replacement arm, replace the engine and gearbox mounts and replace the bolt (if the wait isnt too long I will get the bolt made up in harder material too). What else can I do???

Post by **MightyMouse** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:24 pm

If your going to replace mounts, think about wrapping the passengers side and transmission mounts with seatbelt webbing whilst your at it.

Its a well tested mod that seems to do the trick.

Oh and harder means brittle what you want is tougher IMO. Perhaps consider socket head cap screws ( Unbrako ) as they are excellent quatity and toughness.

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:13 pm

Another problem that might happen is if you change the bolt with something stronger then something else than that cheap bolt might brake

try to get all parts from a wrecker that need it to fit a clutch mechanism.

Post by **BenDover** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:38 pm

Thats a very good point! As painful as it is having to redo it each time its much better than something else more important breaking. I will stick to the usual high tensile bolt and replace the mounts and arm mechanism. Hopefully Daihatsu have some mounts I can use this weekend! The bolt usually has to be ordered in so doubt i'll get it finished this weekend.

Post by **BenDover** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:56 am

Ok well i've got the engine and gearbox mounts put away for me and also a clutch fork. Can someone please point out which part this is? Apparently it is common for these to break in Roza's.

Also, why should I wrap the mounts in webbing? How many layers? And should I do all three?

Cheers
Ben

Post by **ferozamaniac** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:22 am

They wrap the mounts with one layer of belt because that way if the mount brakes the belt will hold the engine or gearbox without creating any problems until you change the mounts. Usually the mount that is on the air filter side brakes mostly and if you dont notice it quickly on the other side the engine will brake near the engine mount on the battery side. Here in Greece is very common problem the mounts but i always say LOUDLY take care of your car.

Post by **AZZA'S HJ47** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:06 pm

best to go genuine on things like this especially with clutches ensre that the fork isnt bent and replace the pivot point with the genuine thing.

Post by **MightyMouse** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:17 pm

Single layer of seat belt strap does the job.....

Get it really tight so it limits te extension of the mount and it will stop the rubber tearing off the metal.

They are VERY marginal stock - with crawler gears I could snap them at will

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