supercharged 3.5 litre

[presto]

has anyone supercharged their 3.5 litre?
at the moment im kind of tossing up whether to build the 4.4 i bought, or whack an ecotec v6 supercharger on the 3.5. its gona cost about the same either way i think and as much as id love a heap more torque from the p76 motor... i think the blown 3.5 will be pretty unique and still offer reasonable power since its recently rebuilt and iv got a haltech ecu lying around.
or i could build the 4.4 and whack a blower on that down the track.
any suggestions?
anyone supercharged the 3.5 at all?
what kind of power out of the standard 4.4?
just throwing ideas around at the moment.. any responses appreciated

presto

[Simo63]

has anyone supercharged their 3.5 litre?
at the moment im kind of tossing up whether to build the 4.4 i bought, or whack an ecotec v6 supercharger on the 3.5. its gona cost about the same either way i think and as much as id love a heap more torque from the p76 motor... i think the blown 3.5 will be pretty unique and still offer reasonable power since its recently rebuilt and iv got a haltech ecu lying around.
or i could build the 4.4 and whack a blower on that down the track.
any suggestions?
anyone supercharged the 3.5 at all?
what kind of power out of the standard 4.4?
just throwing ideas around at the moment.. any responses appreciated

presto

A mate of mine spent a fortune building a 4.0 litre for his '86 Rangie using late model 4.0 block, heavily ported heads then supercharged it and put a motec (or similar) efi system on it. Running a ZF auto behind it and whilst it's certainly faster than a stock rover motor (obviously) after driving it I was disappointed I gotta say. I expected a lot more.

I've owned plenty of 4.4 powered Rangies over the years, a couple of 5.0 holden powered ones, a 350 chev powered one and a 5.0 worked over P76 one and I've driven 6.2 and 6.5 litre turbo diesel powered ones as well and to be honest, petrol cubes rule. The 4.4 ones were always a cheap horsepower fix but it is getting harder to get good blocks as those motors are 40 years old now and were never cast that well when new so you do get really poor quality blocks that can have over heating and other problems.

I found that the cast iron V8 motors changed the way the car drove and loaded up the front end too much so alloy is definately the way to go IMHO.

If you plan to keep the car for a while, spend the coin and put in an alloy 350 chev. LS1 if you want to go efi or even an LS1 with a carby has got to be a better bet than working over the rover motor IMHO.

Interested to hear others thoughts.

[presto]

thanks heaps mate thats the kinda responses i love
i bought the 4.4 off a mates uncle with brand new pistons, rods, everything else reco'd or new etc etc basically ready to put together but the cost of getting the heads done and gaskets etc and the extra weight has put me in two minds.
was thinking about a crate motor but my rangies got no arse and theres bugger all weight over the rear axles so wasnt keen on putting a whole heap of weight over the front end full stop. dont get me wrong, if i had my way thered be a 454 or something in there throwing me around
i dont think this is going to be a gotta get it done by next year kinda mission since iv got other priorities at the moment but yeah like you said, im just interested to hear some peoples thoughts, good bad or inbetween i think its interesting so keep em comin

presto

[Simo63]

and the extra weight has put me in two minds.
presto

Mate, bugger all extra weight in a 4.4 over a 3.5. And if you've got a good one then go for it as the extra power is worth the effort and coin

Just make sure you've got your cooling setup okay (alloy AU falcon radiator with thermos or alloy GMH radiator with thermo are excellent conversions) and you will really enjoy the extra grunt.

[Hobie18]

Agree with Simo, put the P76 in - have a P76 in my old 2 door and they're sweet, mine had a bit of work done to it and from memory had about 175hp at the rear wheels on a dyno. this was with LT95 31" tyres - centre diff engaged and the front wheels lifted off the ground.

In comparison have recently had my 3.9 rebuilt and is getting similar hp on the same dyno but have the ZF not the manual.

[presto]

yeah sorry about that i didnt mean to put in that bit about extra weight, i kinda got ahead of myself thinking about the 350 chev.
already using a falcon radiator and thermos
another question about the p76, anyone put the 3.5 litre heads on them?
do they perform any better?
cheers for the replies guys, very helpful.

[bakerboy]

im 90% i could be wrong (i know jack shite bout rangies) but is the P76 the 3.5L V8? so wouldnt it have the 3.5 heads already, sorry im prob wrong but im curious, ive got my eye on a stroked 3.5L (now a 3.9) to put in my paj, just waiting on bellhousing options, should have a bit more power than my 3L V6 blown head and all lol

[Hobie18]

standard P76 is 4.4l and is an easy option for a power upgrade for the rangies. rangies from about 89/90 onwards had 3.9V8 motors and prior to that were 3.5

[bakerboy]

ok cool, yeah i did a little bit of research so when i went to see the engine i was curious why an 86 river had a 3.9L, then he told me he rebuilt it and stroked it out, is it a resonable price (1200) to offer for an unregisted rangie (86)? sorry for hijack

[presto]

doesnt bother me mate, were all here for the same thing

[Euan]

I'm looking for some longer push rods with the right ends, to put some rover heads on my 4.4. Also toying with the idea of putting a ecotech blower on.

[Loanrangie]

yeah sorry about that i didnt mean to put in that bit about extra weight, i kinda got ahead of myself thinking about the 350 chev.
already using a falcon radiator and thermos
another question about the p76, anyone put the 3.5 litre heads on them?
do they perform any better?
cheers for the replies guys, very helpful.

Most people use 3.5 heads from a post 81 model as these have larger valves than a 4.4 and early 3.5, you need to drill oil holes into the 4.4 block but i have heard from some old guys that just bolt the 3.5 heads on without the drilled holes without problems. You also need the 3.5 timing cover and water pump.

[Euan]

Any idea what pusrods they used?
Cheers

[waxen]

Any idea what pusrods they used?
Cheers

Evan why don't you use the adjustables that are available for the solid lifters? I think Real Steel sell them. Failing that you could skim the pedestals.

[Simo63]

yeah sorry about that i didnt mean to put in that bit about extra weight, i kinda got ahead of myself thinking about the 350 chev.
already using a falcon radiator and thermos
another question about the p76, anyone put the 3.5 litre heads on them?
do they perform any better?
cheers for the replies guys, very helpful.

Most people use 3.5 heads from a post 81 model as these have larger valves than a 4.4 and early 3.5, you need to drill oil holes into the 4.4 block but i have heard from some old guys that just bolt the 3.5 heads on without the drilled holes without problems. You also need the 3.5 timing cover and water pump.

From what I understand, the best heads are the buick 300 heads from the US if you can get a set. I've never used them but I believe they flow very well and produce good power. I've used both Rangie and 4.4 heads on various 4.4 engines over the years and can't remember which was better although I recall the later ones have bigger valves as Loanrangie has said.

The advantage with using Rangie heads is that they have the mounting holes in the front of the heads for the alternator, power steering and AC pumps. If you use the 4.4 heads, you will need to manufacture (or get a hold of some) brackets.

I've bolted 3.5 heads to a 4.4 without drilling the block and whilst it ran okay, it was always a rattly motor and could never figure out why until I heard about the block drilling trick. Never got around to doing anything about it and sold the car off as it was at the time. I would suspect it couldn't hurt to drill the holes.

On the timing cover swap thing, yes you can bolt your Rangie timing cover and waterpump straight to the front of the 4.4, I've seen some installations where that wasn't done and it was okay. A bit more mucking around to get the radiator hoses sorted out but it does work. I've currently got a 4.4 in a Rangie wreck that has a 3.5 timing cover with a custom made 1/2 inch alloy plate bolted to the front on which someone has bolted a 250 falcon water pump!!!! Talk about booty fab .. but it works fine though and water pumps are both cheap and plentiful.

[Loanrangie]

You have to use holden/4.4 lifters with the 4.4 hollow pushrods so that the rocker shafts are oiled properly, the waterpump idea sounds ok as long as it flows enough coolant as rover pumps are about $185 + and 4.4 pumps are rare as new. I had a 3.9 serpentine belt cover that i was going to fit to my 4.4 but it needed an extra or longer keyway/key to drive the internal oil pump.

[Simo63]

You have to use holden/4.4 lifters with the 4.4 hollow pushrods so that the rocker shafts are oiled properly,

Correct and the bonus there is the Holden ones are as cheap as to buy

[Euan]

Evan why don't you use the adjustables that are available for the solid lifters? I think Real Steel sell them. Failing that you could skim the pedestals.

The 3.5 one's are about an inch shorter and the hollow leyland ones are a much smaller diameter ball at the end than the socket on the rover rockers.
Has anyone used the hollow 4.4 one's in the rover rockers for any serious length of time and rpm. and not had a wear problems ?

[Simo63]

Evan why don't you use the adjustables that are available for the solid lifters? I think Real Steel sell them. Failing that you could skim the pedestals.

The 3.5 one's are about an inch shorter and the hollow leyland ones are a much smaller diameter ball at the end than the socket on the rover rockers.
Has anyone used the hollow 4.4 one's in the rover rockers for any serious length of time and rpm. and not had a wear problems ?

Euan this is the first time I have ever heard of, or considered, this issue and I've had plenty of 4.4's fitted with 3.5 heads over the years and never experienced any problems. Granted I have never owned any of them for massive periods of time or travelled massive kms in them as I always sell it and move on to the next "project" but these cars were fine before I purchased them, fine during ownership and fine afterwards from all accounts. So I would expect that you could easily run the 4.4 pushrods with Holden lifters and 3.5 heads and not experienced any real problems.

Again, interested to hear others thoughts.

[GRIMACE]

I say supercharger and tell us all what you think

[Loanrangie]

Evan why don't you use the adjustables that are available for the solid lifters? I think Real Steel sell them. Failing that you could skim the pedestals.

The 3.5 one's are about an inch shorter and the hollow leyland ones are a much smaller diameter ball at the end than the socket on the rover rockers.
Has anyone used the hollow 4.4 one's in the rover rockers for any serious length of time and rpm. and not had a wear problems ?

Euan this is the first time I have ever heard of, or considered, this issue and I've had plenty of 4.4's fitted with 3.5 heads over the years and never experienced any problems. Granted I have never owned any of them for massive periods of time or travelled massive kms in them as I always sell it and move on to the next "project" but these cars were fine before I purchased them, fine during ownership and fine afterwards from all accounts. So I would expect that you could easily run the 4.4 pushrods with Holden lifters and 3.5 heads and not experienced any real problems.

Again, interested to hear others thoughts.

I have talked to old speedway guys that used the 4.4 and have said that the 4.4/holden lifter/ 4.4 pushrods/3.5 heads causes no problems and they caned them.

[Euan]

OK cheers. I'll give them a go.

[presto]

really good info, thanks heaps guys. have got more information out of you than any engine builders iv called in the last year
as much as i love forced induction and the heart skips a beat when i think about boosting the rangie up a long dirt road (this is my only car thats n/a) i'll probably go with the 4.4 and 3.5 litre heads since its sitting out there anyway, maybe add a blower down the track. wont be a while until i start to play with it and start building since im keen to get the suspension set up first. this gives more time for further suggestions

really appreciate the input everyone, thanks heaps.