TOPERI CHALLENGE (comp to replace woodpecker)

[Toperi]

We may consider having a second class just for buggies, spectators would love it.

The problem may be insurance, we still want to keep our entry fee at $150 per car. Im sure insurance for un-regoed buggies will be much higher, we dont want to have to put up everyones entry fee just to cover higher insurance costs for the buggies. But we are looking into it, the main comp would still be the team event.

[65Mog]

I think that the organisers should get in contact with the people who run superior all terrain in qld. they seem to run three classes

- modified
- super modified (which both need rego )

- outlaw ( no rego )

It is the only way people dont whinge! I competed last year in a hilux and this year would love to compete in my buggy. But if they don`t allow us to i will weldd some suzuki rails to the side of mine put on a bonnet and grill then i will compete like everyone else does with a mask on my buggy ! A lot of people are doing it so why not? There is a heap of us that have spent $60,000 plus on our rigs which is a huge investment into this sport to make it grow, hoping we can make it more professional so we can pick up sponsors etc. With slap happy rules and regs it`s not equal playing fields for all so lets p/u our act and make the real competive spirit alive again. May the best driver win !

Lukey....

If people with buggy's want a class for them, start organising some proper rules and guidelines for their construction, and look into what it will take to get insurance.
At Least then you can say to the guys that run events or own properties, here you go these are our rules and classes, and here's the guidelines that we use for the construction of the vehicles. This has all been accepted by Acme insurance and they will cover us.
You say you want the events more professional, well I think that's the starting point.
You can't expect the guys that volunteer their time to host events to do it all for you.
I'm not having a go at you or anyone else that owns a buggy, I just think you guys need to get organised among yourselves.

[turbo gu]

Again not having a go at buggy owners BUT if they were that popular why did both WEROCK and OZ ROCK stop?? They aren't as popular as the people who own them think they are.

Start running your on events before trying to turn all comps into buggy friendly events as that will ruin the comps or as 65 MOG said sit down and make up a set of rules then sit down with the clubs running the events and say can we run an event at your event .
For the clubs that run events generally its only a handfull of guys that front up for many working bees to build the tracks so to build tracks to stop the buggies on to top of all the other tracks is fairly hard work.

Also why would you want to drive a buggy drive tracks like Willowglen,Toperi etc, there won't be much of a challange

[lukes4x4]

I must say thanks to 65MOG for having a more professional approach or idea to the problem. thanks for not flaming us all.

I think this would be a good idea, but to make up rules i`m sure if we could get hold of them off the organisers of OZROCK or WEROCK , or the like they are already somewhat in place.

At superior all terrain challenge in qld , they charge $50 per vehicle inc. buggies to compete. It would be something the organisers would have to look into as far as what it covers etc, but thankyou to TOPERI for having an open mind to this idea.

We can sit here and critisize people and whinge , but the problem will never resolve because most people push the boundaries on the rules more and more every year.

once we setup a comp. where most people get a fair go it will help grow the sport. If pete OPW never pushed the limits years ago with rear steer for example , the majority would probally not have had rear steer today.

People like myself get more of a kick out of building trucks and coming up with some innovative concepts, some which work , and some that don`t.

Anyhow i think people get the idea..........Lukey....

[65Mog]

At superior all terrain challenge in qld , they charge $50 per vehicle inc. buggies to compete. It would be something the organisers would have to look into as far as what it covers etc, but thankyou to TOPERI for having an open mind to this idea.

Is that $50 for the whole weekend or do you have to pay to enter the park then pay $50 to enter the event?

[turbo gu]

I must say thanks to 65MOG for having a more professional approach or idea to the problem. thanks for not flaming us all.

I think this would be a good idea, but to make up rules i`m sure if we could get hold of them off the organisers of OZROCK or WEROCK , or the like they are already somewhat in place.

At superior all terrain challenge in qld , they charge $50 per vehicle inc. buggies to compete. It would be something the organisers would have to look into as far as what it covers etc, but thankyou to TOPERI for having an open mind to this idea.

We can sit here and critisize people and whinge , but the problem will never resolve because most people push the boundaries on the rules more and more every year.

once we setup a comp. where most people get a fair go it will help grow the sport. If pete OPW never pushed the limits years ago with rear steer for example , the majority would probally not have had rear steer today.

People like myself get more of a kick out of building trucks and coming up with some innovative concepts, some which work , and some that don`t.

Anyhow i think people get the idea..........Lukey....

I think you will find that most events in QLD probably have different insurance costs due to the fact they are run at 4wd parks which would have a massive insurances allready and the comps insurance costs wouldn't as large as comps not at parks. I would say you would have to pay to enter the park on top of the $50.

Also terrain comes into this. To run buggies at Toperi as an example there is nothing there that would challange a buggy. The effort to make buggy tracks would be huge to make it worth the effort. No point running buggies if there is nothing interesting for you to drive.

I am all for pushing the boundries to make the sport better as it gives everyone some thing to work towards to beat the guy pushing the boundries.

Also what are people calling buggies? Are you calling pete's or bandage bear buggies or are we talking we rock/ozrock type cars

[lukes4x4]

It is $50 just to enter the event. We could have working bees if required to build tracks. i agree it is not the hardest evnt at toperi but it would help boost the sport. even do it up there as a display not comp.

I think anything with less than 50% of it`s original chassis would be classed as a buggy in my eyes , but people may differ. chuck 4 wheel steer in and rear disconnects etc and i think your on the money.

[MrsForby]

It is $50 just to enter the event. We could have working bees if required to build tracks. i agree it is not the hardest evnt at toperi but it would help boost the sport. even do it up there as a display not comp.
I think anything with less than 50% of it`s original chassis would be classed as a buggy in my eyes , but people may differ. chuck 4 wheel steer in and rear disconnects etc and i think your on the money.

Not having a go at you, so please don't take this personally.. I also have no nice way of saying this, so please excuse my bluntess..

Yellow highlight: How would it help boost the sport? Dedicated "buggies" had their own event. In NSW alone buggy owners has WEROCK. I attended TWO Werock events (3 if you include Eastern Creek) and I've got to say, crowd numbers were low. This tells me people don't totally want to see buggies.

Good work on acknowleging the "masked up buggies" though. At least someone who owns a buggy can see the difference.

[Tuff Events]

It is $50 just to enter the event. We could have working bees if required to build tracks. i agree it is not the hardest evnt at toperi but it would help boost the sport. even do it up there as a display not comp.
I think anything with less than 50% of it`s original chassis would be classed as a buggy in my eyes , but people may differ. chuck 4 wheel steer in and rear disconnects etc and i think your on the money.

Not having a go at you, so please don't take this personally.. I also have no nice way of saying this, so please excuse my bluntess..

Yellow highlight: How would it help boost the sport? Dedicated "buggies" had their own event. In NSW alone buggy owners has WEROCK. I attended TWO Werock events (3 if you include Eastern Creek) and I've got to say, crowd numbers were low. This tells me people don't totally want to see buggies.

Good work on acknowleging the "masked up buggies" though. At least someone who owns a buggy can see the difference.

Apart from Tuff Truck. name one other 4x4 event that gets a large spectator basis other than competitors & families of competitors!!
-maybe mud bulls?? not sure..

We-rock & Oz-rock have never been promoted on the scale that eg, Tuff Truck has been!!
The majority of people dont even know that the buggies exist!!
That is why we never have a large crowd!! you want the crowd, you've gotta get them in the door with $$$$$$ in promotion which hasn't been spent. hence why TTC got a great crowd this year. they spent more money promotiing!

[STIKA]

It is $50 just to enter the event. We could have working bees if required to build tracks. i agree it is not the hardest evnt at toperi but it would help boost the sport. even do it up there as a display not comp.

I think anything with less than 50% of it`s original chassis would be classed as a buggy in my eyes , but people may differ. chuck 4 wheel steer in and rear disconnects etc and i think your on the money.

I think you will find its park entry + event entry. event entry is more than $50 . Tough Track is around $100 event entry for non club members and it's for registered vehicles only.

[Strange Rover]

Yellow highlight: How would it help boost the sport? Dedicated "buggies" had their own event. In NSW alone buggy owners has WEROCK. I attended TWO Werock events (3 if you include Eastern Creek) and I've got to say, crowd numbers were low. This tells me people don't totally want to see buggies.

I wouldnt say that...In the 3 years I ran WE Rock we did about 15 events, all covered in a major magazine. We gave away a complete turn key buggy. We sent 5 vehicles to the US and back again plus airfairs for 11 people. At each of our final events we had over 1000 people attend.

We really did put on one hell of a show...but after the world finals in Aust fell through I sort of gave up on the motivation...thats what I was really working towards for 3 years...

Sam

[Strange Rover]

In saying that I do fully agree that people dont associate well with buggies cause they are too far removed from real world modified 4wds.

Thats OK for what we were doing...cause we put on a "show"....thats why the Brisbane 4x4 Show keeps getting us back...cause we put on a "show" even if people dont relate...the people still love the show.

Now whats interesting with the current 4wd competition scene is that we have seen an explosion in the sorts of vehicles that could be labled as a "buggy"...no chassis of any worth..non standard axles...non standard engines/gearboxes/transfers...coilovers or airshocks...very little body with no guards and narrowed grills.

I think this would fairly well describe top 10 in tuff truck...(maybe with the exception of 1 or possibly 2)

So where is all this heading???

These events will be won by buggies and the followers of these events wont like it. As an example...have a look back through this thread and see if you can find any pictures or footage of the winning vehicle from last year...

So if there was a "buggy" class the "buggies" could be kept away from the "real trucks" and, yes, I believe it "would it help boost the sport"

Imagine how good it would be if the winning vehicle of this event this year was indead a real truck.

In a few years (or is it now already) winch challenge events will be the only competitions with real trucks competiting and winning. And funnily enough they will be the only events that get covered in the major magazines.

Sam

[lukes4x4]

Thanks OPW and STRANGEROVER. There has not been enough promo on the buggies yet. Critisism seems to take place every time you mention the word buggy. the reason is because they have no support to make a comp for them so we enter ones we can eg. TUFFTRUCK etc and get flamed for it . if people didn`t push the limits we`d still be competing with wwii willy`s jeeps . Lets get positive people ......

Lukey....

[Toperi]

Im taking all this in.

[DUDELUX]

personally, id rather watch 4wds that actually look like what came out of the factory, so much more appeal to every1 that own a dailydriven offroader. just imagine, a comp with only zooks, luxs, gq wagons and 80ser wagons, been a few years since that happened
bring on toperi!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

The comp as it stands isnt broken so i think you are dead right. dont fix it.
and the entry fee is quite reasonable too which all helps.
its tops watching a bunch of fairly stock trucks work their way along the tracks.
keeping it regod+(engineered) is the goods.

[napsta]

so you will be running 33's on your engineered rig?

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

actually its engineered for 37s.
but negative. 42s only.

people buy or build dedicated buggies. they know they have a very limited use when they build or purchase one.
i dont think they should pressure organisers of non buggy events to include them. i went to a couple of werocks, it was ok. not my cup of tea though. the general public didnt seem to embrace it. perhaps it should be let die and people should remove the goodies from their buggys and stick them on a GQ?

[A1]

actually its engineered for 37s.
but negative. 42s only.

FOR F>RKS sake DRS ...go to the RTA and ask are 37"s road legal becasue my engineer says so .....

[nissan_onroids]

We have rego but as yet have not been engineered as we want to get everything done in one go.That didn't stop us getting a run in toperi last year or nissan trials the year before & it wasn't required in tuff truck.If the RTA gets their way it wont matter anyway.We have to start planning ahead to keep all the comps we have at the moment active & encourage new comps to join in even if it means we have to trailer to comps.It wont matter how well engineered your truck is,the RTA have the final say on rego & like i said before if they get their way all the gear on our truck & a good deal of the other trucks now competing becomes as useful as tits on a bull.My two cents worth anyway.Regards Ken.

[turbo gu]

We have rego but as yet have not been engineered as we want to get everything done in one go.That didn't stop us getting a run in toperi last year or nissan trials the year before & it wasn't required in tuff truck.If the RTA gets their way it wont matter anyway.We have to start planning ahead to keep all the comps we have at the moment active & encourage new comps to join in even if it means we have to trailer to comps.It wont matter how well engineered your truck is,the RTA have the final say on rego & like i said before if they get their way all the gear on our truck & a good deal of the other trucks now competing becomes as useful as tits on a bull.My two cents worth anyway.Regards Ken.

If it like most rule changes with the RTA i'm sure they can't back date them. If a car was built legally then they change the rules it can't be illegal I have seen on a few peoples cars clauses saying if it falls out of rego it won't be regoed again.
Otherwise class action against the RTA and NSW government for costs incurred to make your car legal again as i'm sure these rules would also affect hot rods etc so there would be a fair degree of angry people

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

actually its engineered for 37s.
but negative. 42s only.

FOR F>RKS sake DRS ...go to the RTA and ask are 37"s road legal becasue my engineer says so .....

maybe not but with a glass if half full attitude surely this helps comp organisers and the like when someone can turn up with papers and say look here is my paperwork, this bloke says its safe/legal by his certification.
it certainly cant hurt a competition organiser to know that mods have been engineered.

[albey]

Hi guys, i don't want to upset anyone so please don't take anything i say to heart, but as far as i go and i'm pretty sure alot of people would agree with me. I wanna see carnage i'm not interested in a vechile that can drive a 90' wall with no hassles, although watchin pete have a go at the frame twister bonus line backwards was pretty awesome. My example is the big white fridge at Tuff truck on the frame twister he made it to the bonus line and the whole crowd stopped to see him have a go at it! Nobody gave a stuff that he only got 25 points on that stage, they just wanted to see the truck get totalled. Now thats what brings in the crowds, and although some of them may not be the most pleasent bunch to be around, they bring in $$$$ and nobody is gonna run a comp if they don't make enough $$$$ to cover costs.

Thanks as i said don't take this to heart, but i believe people wanna see the hilux or patrol thats the same as theirs in the driveway have a go!

[XTREME MMM]

Hi guys, i don't want to upset anyone so please don't take anything i say to heart, but as far as i go and i'm pretty sure alot of people would agree with me. I wanna see carnage i'm not interested in a vechile that can drive a 90' wall with no hassles, although watchin pete have a go at the frame twister bonus line backwards was pretty awesome. My example is the big white fridge at Tuff truck on the frame twister he made it to the bonus line and the whole crowd stopped to see him have a go at it! Nobody gave a stuff that he only got 25 points on that stage, they just wanted to see the truck get totalled. Now thats what brings in the crowds, and although some of them may not be the most pleasent bunch to be around, they bring in $$$$ and nobody is gonna run a comp if they don't make enough $$$$ to cover costs.

Thanks as i said don't take this to heart, but i believe people wanna see the hilux or patrol thats the same as theirs in the driveway have a go!

This one I had to answer.

As an event organiser I do not set up my tracks to destroy vehicles but to give a driver a chance to do his best without damage. I do not expect them to destroy their vehicles, which some are worth the cost of a house and a lot of hard work.

If that is the main reason that people go, just to watch competitors wreck all that hard work and dollars put in to their vehicles just to keep you happy, I then think it is only fair that the competitors then get the chance to do the same to your vehicle, even if it is in the carpark; fairs fair!!!!!

If you are just a spectator why not go out and give it a go and see how you feel when it all goes wrong.

But if you do not want to do this then go and watch an event an enjoy the drives where no damage is done and cheer them on and when something goes wrong think of how many dollars this has cost the competitor and it is not coming out of your pocket.

Cheers
David

[Shady]

How about we talk about Toperi & how it is shaping up to be one of , if not the best comp in NSW .
Lets stop talking about all this other shit on this thread .
If we need to discuss the merits of rego vs no rego or buggys vs full bodied 4wds maybe we should start another thread & stop filling this one up with all this bickering.

[albey]

This one I had to answer.

As an event organiser I do not set up my tracks to destroy vehicles but to give a driver a chance to do his best without damage. I do not expect them to destroy their vehicles, which some are worth the cost of a house and a lot of hard work.

If that is the main reason that people go, just to watch competitors wreck all that hard work and dollars put in to their vehicles just to keep you happy, I then think it is only fair that the competitors then get the chance to do the same to your vehicle, even if it is in the carpark; fairs fair!!!!!

If you are just a spectator why not go out and give it a go and see how you feel when it all goes wrong.

But if you do not want to do this then go and watch an event an enjoy the drives where no damage is done and cheer them on and when something goes wrong think of how many dollars this has cost the competitor and it is not coming out of your pocket.

Cheers
David[/quote]






Hey David, what you say is true i don't want to see people destroy their rigs, i want to see them live to fight another day! Hey i compete as well i was in Toperi, Nissan Trials, Woodpecker and Willowglen for the past 3 years, and i know what breaking your vechile feels like. But the point i am trying to get across is that people want to see excitment, when the underdog or the full body truck struggles but finally makes it across the line. All i'm saying is that buggies aren't as crowd pleasing as the more standard vechiles and i think thats why they don't have as big a following!

[albey]

How about we talk about Toperi & how it is shaping up to be one of , if not the best comp in NSW .
Lets stop talking about all this other shit on this thread .
If we need to discuss the merits of rego vs no rego or buggys vs full bodied 4wds maybe we should start another thread & stop filling this one up with all this bickering.

Hey Shady i agree toperi rocks hopefully this year i'll do better than 50 points on all 3 stages, but this year me and my partner will have winches,so we can both do better!

[Shady]

I loved Toperi last year . It was the first event I have driven my truck to the 100 point marker at any event & I managed to do it twice once with help by a winch & once with no assistance and the best thing was it was the first time I didn,t break anything . I think the Bronco is now strong enough , I just need to learn how to drive it .

[Tuff Events]

This one I had to answer.

As an event organiser I do not set up my tracks to destroy vehicles but to give a driver a chance to do his best without damage. I do not expect them to destroy their vehicles, which some are worth the cost of a house and a lot of hard work.

If that is the main reason that people go, just to watch competitors wreck all that hard work and dollars put in to their vehicles just to keep you happy, I then think it is only fair that the competitors then get the chance to do the same to your vehicle, even if it is in the carpark; fairs fair!!!!!

If you are just a spectator why not go out and give it a go and see how you feel when it all goes wrong.

But if you do not want to do this then go and watch an event an enjoy the drives where no damage is done and cheer them on and when something goes wrong think of how many dollars this has cost the competitor and it is not coming out of your pocket.

Cheers
David






Hey David, what you say is true i don't want to see people destroy their rigs, i want to see them live to fight another day! Hey i compete as well i was in Toperi, Nissan Trials, Woodpecker and Willowglen for the past 3 years, and i know what breaking your vechile feels like. But the point i am trying to get across is that people want to see excitment, when the underdog or the full body truck struggles but finally makes it across the line. All i'm saying is that buggies aren't as crowd pleasing as the more standard vechiles and i think thats why they don't have as big a following!

If you don't think buggies are exciting, then maybe you should attend a buggy comp. ( if there is another one ) If the course design is difficult, then you really see some awesome action. Its when the courses aren't hard enough is when it is very boring!!

[STIKA]

I agree fully Pete,

So why have buggies at an event that isn't designed for them.