hilux diffs under a vitara

Post by **preecy** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:04 pm

hey
i just brought some hilux diff for my suzuki vitara and was wondering if anyone has any ideas on the link set up, what sort of coils 2 use and do the tail shafts line up with the vitara transfer, and would i need to get a high steer kit ?? Any pictures would be great or any info on someone who has done the conversion. will be driven on the road to go 4wding so a hour tops on road and mainly going to be doing comps money willing to spend 6K on the diff conversion will be running 35's maybe step up 2 a 37's later on

cheers

Post by **11_evl** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:46 pm

your doing a diff sas and you dont no if your centers will line up

Post by **atari4x4** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:58 pm

they will fit in the back of a LWB but I think you might have trouble getting them in a SWB?

Post by **preecy** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:18 pm

i no the back will umm yeah swb

Post by **preecy** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:19 pm

11_evl wrote:your doing a diff sas and you dont no if your centers will line up

thats y im asking so i no what i have 2 do

Post by **Jock** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:32 pm

preecy wrote:
11_evl wrote:your doing a diff sas and you dont no if your centers will line up
thats y im asking so i no what i have 2 do

completly fabricate all new suspension for the front to take it form an independent suspenion to a live axle, doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

completly fabricate all new steering for the front to take it from an independent suspenion to a live axle, changing the rack and pinion to a drag link set up doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

completly fabricate all new suspension mounts for the rear diff doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

Modify the braking sytem doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

so basically its a big job

Post by **preecy** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:19 am

Jock wrote:
preecy wrote:
11_evl wrote:your doing a diff sas and you dont no if your centers will line up
thats y im asking so i no what i have 2 do
completly fabricate all new suspension for the front to take it form an independent suspenion to a live axle, doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

completly fabricate all new steering for the front to take it from an independent suspenion to a live axle, changing the rack and pinion to a drag link set up doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

completly fabricate all new suspension mounts for the rear diff doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

Modify the braking sytem doing this safely and with all relevant australian standards complied too,

so basically its a big job

thanx for the advice jock

Post by **grimbo** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:18 pm

do you have any experience at all at fabricating stuff at this level of skill?
Do you have lots of money to pay someone else to do this?
Why didn't you just but a Hilux and be done with it?

This is a big job and if you are asking basic stuff like this at this stage are you really sure you should be doing this?

Post by **preecy** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:14 pm

grimbo wrote:do you have any experience at all at fabricating stuff at this level of skill?
Do you have lots of money to pay someone else to do this?
Why didn't you just but a Hilux and be done with it?

This is a big job and if you are asking basic stuff like this at this stage are you really sure you should be doing this?

i just asking for advice and all I'm getting is bitching and criticism
cuz i didn't want a hilux everyone has one
and i am a diesel mechanic and i have fairly good fabrication skills i just haven't done a conversion like this before and i JUST WANTED ADVICE

Post by **NIK** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:19 pm

Do a search for for stuff by overkill engineering I think they did a vit and im sure they did a x90 (basically the same)
They may possiblly??? do a conversion kit???
Nik

Post by **VR Rodeo** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:53 pm

Do a search on Pirate as well...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... oyota+swap

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=737136

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... did=116013

Post by **MART** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:20 pm

Mate , consult a engineer , he will guide you in the right way , you will need one that specialises in 4wd's , a lot of the engineers do 4wd's as a side line and are a bit hesitent at radical mods and therefore will say no. This is a big job and if you drive it daily it would be off the road for at least 6 months. A few things to consider :

New brake booster , master cylinder , brake pedal linkage modification.

New and relocation of brake lines , longer flexible connections , brake bias valve for F/R adjustment.

New steering box , chassis mounting , new steering linkages and positioning of steering box , what else is in the way to achieve this , new power steering lines , and power steering pump , will this fit in engine bay and what items this affects , such as radiator and shroud , in regard to drive belts.

New drag link and the angle this will move through , will the tie rod ends bind during suspension travel , new panhard rod to locate diff and stop sideways movement.

Front diff location and tyre size will determine position of diff housing to avoid tyre rubbing on body parts , this will also affect sump position , if it requires moving a pickup modification to suit.

New link mounts to suit , links to suit , bush type and selection , adjustable or non adjustable , and the hard one , positioning of the links so the roll centre is correct and the links correctly and don't bind.

New shock mounts , top and bottom , lengths to be check after ramping it and making sure the steering misses the link mounts on full travel and full lock.

New front and rear bump stops , these limit the up travel and help the suspension articulate properly.

Limiting straps to avoid full extesion of shock absorbers.

Correct castor angle to avoid the dreaded steering shimmy on the front diff housing.

Tailshaft angles and type of joint to be used , tailshaft length and balancing , and making sure the tailshaft misses all other components while the suspension is moving.

Rear brake type disc or drum , hand brake connection.

Fuel tank location , the rear diff pumpkin could interfere with the tank , or shock location , maybe a new rear crossmember to remount your top shock mounts.

Exhaust modifications for the new diff housings and at full articulation.

Rear tailshaft angles and joint selection , also length of rear tailshaft to avoid binding of the joints , the tailshaft needs to be a certain length to work correctly while the suspension moves , links need to control this so you get a smooth roll centre. The centre might need to be angled to suit this.

Suspension or spring choice , you might need firmer springs to avoid body roll with a wider wheel base , more height , possibly sway bars to aid with this.

All this must be done with compliant materials and be engineered to suit.

Gross vehicle Mass might need to be raised to suit. Each passenger weighs 75 kilo's , so 4 people equals 300 kg plus luggage 150 kgs , plus a full size spare , up to 35 kg for 35 inch tyres , plus new diff and suspension weight , this all adds up and you will be surprised too how much more. Then the added weight and tyre size affect performance on and off road. What diff ratio did you get , this will also affect final drive line ratios.

Then you look for performance mods to get more power.

All in all , good luck with the build , can be done , some food for thought , probably need $6 - 8 grand to complete , Cheers Paul.

Post by **grimbo** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:23 pm

preecy wrote:
grimbo wrote:do you have any experience at all at fabricating stuff at this level of skill?
Do you have lots of money to pay someone else to do this?
Why didn't you just but a Hilux and be done with it?

This is a big job and if you are asking basic stuff like this at this stage are you really sure you should be doing this?
i just asking for advice and all I'm getting is bitching and criticism
cuz i didn't want a hilux everyone has one
and i am a diesel mechanic and i have fairly good fabrication skills i just haven't done a conversion like this before and i JUST WANTED ADVICE

um no you aren't, You're getting questions asking for more info about you and how you are doing this. Whether you will be doing the fab work or paying someone. If you are doing it the info you will get will be different if you are just wanting someone to fab it up for you.

The more info about your plans you give the better the answers.

Why can't people just read what is written instead of trying to turn it into something else?

Post by **lay80n** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:01 am

Have a read through A1's members thread. That is how to do a VERY neat SAS swap using 60 series diffs.

Layto....

Post by **Toecutta** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:45 am

preecy wrote:hey
i just brought some hilux diff for my suzuki vitara and was woundering if anyone has any ideas on the link set up, what sort of coils 2 use and do the tailshafts line up with the vitara transfer, and would i need to get a high steer kit ?? Any picturse would be great or any info on sumone who has done the conversion.

cheers

Lucky he asked the question

I guess none of your mothers ever told you "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all"

Lets not turn Outers in to Pirate

It can be done, it has been done.

We used the rear arms of a Pajero in the front (makes it like a Patrol), custom made a 3 link in the rear.
Used Std Jeep coils
Shafts line up but you will need to get creative with the yokes to the t-case
Use a high steer kit.

and good luck but talk to an engineer

Post by **grimbo** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:15 am

again who said any nasty words. Seriously people grow a couple and realise that questions or negative comments are not personal attacks. They are either feedback or efforts to garner more relevant info.

Post by **v840** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:44 am

Meh, I'm with Grimbo. I don't think he was rude or even critical. He's just looking for more info from the OP. I mean he was pretty vague and as MART pointed out, it's not just a case of unbolting something and bolting something else on. Also, no offence but there does seem to be an increase in these threads when school holidays are on, I hope I'm wrong but I would not be surprised if we didn't hear from you again until the next holidays. Anyway.......

Preecy, if I was you I'd be looking at going 60 series diffs dude. Lux diffs are pretty narrow under a vit.

woundering if anyone has any ideas on the link set up

3 link + phard or double triangulated 4 link on the rear and 3 link +phard front are the usual options but there really are any amount of setups to run from 1 links to 5 links to radius arm setups.

what sort of coils 2 use

What lift do you want? What weights are you planning on carrying? Whats your budget? What tyres are you planning on running? Offroad only or dual purpose? Starting to understand why we need more info?

and do the tailshafts line up with the vitara transfer

I'm fairly sure that vit rear diffs have a centred pumpkin as do luxes so I imagine they would line up yes. Perhaps GQ diffs would be a better option?

and would i need to get a high steer kit ??

Hi-steer or crossover steer yes, anything else is ghetto (excluding hydro).

As said, have a search and look at A1's build. Also check out zukikrawlers, pirate, and zuwharrie. The yanks call vits "Trackers" or "Sidekicks" so if you look for threads with those words in them you will find enough info to make your head explode.

here are a couple of great links to link suspensions: (pay attention to Strange Rover's posts in the first one)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168577

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... suspension

http://www.muddtanks.com/4LinkSuspArticle.htm

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... =anti+dive

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/cog/

Now, please don't start another thread until you have researched and read and read and read. If you do start another thread and people ask for more info, as Grimbo did, or are generally non responsive, don't get butthurt about it. It makes you seem like a petulant little bitch and is unlikely to get you any info. How about just giving them the info they want, they are trying to help you. Best of luck with your build and start a members page so we can watch your progress.

If you want to call me names, PM me.

Post by **preecy** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:30 pm

v840 wrote:Meh, I'm with Grimbo. I don't think he was rude or even critical. He's just looking for more info from the OP. I mean he was pretty vague and as MART pointed out, it's not just a case of unbolting something and bolting something else on. Also, no offence but there does seem to be an increase in these threads when school holidays are on, I hope I'm wrong but I would not be surprised if we didn't hear from you again until the next holidays. Anyway.......

Preecy, if I was you I'd be looking at going 60 series diffs dude. Lux diffs are pretty narrow under a vit.

woundering if anyone has any ideas on the link set up
3 link + phard or double triangulated 4 link on the rear and 3 link +phard front are the usual options but there really are any amount of setups to run from 1 links to 5 links to radius arm setups.

what sort of coils 2 use
What lift do you want? What weights are you planning on carrying? Whats your budget? What tyres are you planning on running? Offroad only or dual purpose? Starting to understand why we need more info?

and do the tailshafts line up with the vitara transfer
I'm fairly sure that vit rear diffs have a centred pumpkin as do luxes so I imagine they would line up yes. Perhaps GQ diffs would be a better option?

and would i need to get a high steer kit ??
Hi-steer or crossover steer yes, anything else is ghetto (excluding hydro).

As said, have a search and look at A1's build. Also check out zukikrawlers, pirate, and zuwharrie. The yanks call vits "Trackers" or "Sidekicks" so if you look for threads with those words in them you will find enough info to make your head explode.

here are a couple of great links to link suspensions: (pay attention to Strange Rover's posts in the first one)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168577

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... suspension

http://www.muddtanks.com/4LinkSuspArticle.htm

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... =anti+dive

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/cog/

Now, please don't start another thread until you have researched and read and read and read. If you do start another thread and people ask for more info, as Grimbo did, or are generally non responsive, don't get butthurt about it. It makes you seem like a petulant little bitch and is unlikely to get you any info. How about just giving them the info they want, they are trying to help you. Best of luck with your build and start a members page so we can watch your progress.

If you want to call me names, PM me.

umm yes u r wrong I'm a diesel mechanic and i have the diffs and not they arnt to narrow i hav measured them up 2 compared to my vitara width they r 3 inches wider and i no its not just a bolt in job I'm not an
idiot but yeah thanx for advice guys helps alot

Post by **v840** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:02 am

I know that they are not too narrow, it's just that to go to all that effort for 1.5" of extra width each side seems a waste when for the same amount of time and effort you could go 60s with stronger CVs, stronger centres and more width again albeit at the cost of pumpkin clearance.

That's why I was recommending 60s diffs. Its your ride however and whatever path you choose, I hope it works out. Seriously, start a members thread too, a bunch of people on here would love to see it come together. It sounds like an interesting project.

Post by **redzook** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:24 pm

v840 wrote:I know that they are not too narrow, it's just that to go to all that effort for 1.5" of extra width each side seems a waste when for the same amount of time and effort you could go 60s with stronger CVs, stronger centres and more width again albeit at the cost of pumpkin clearance.

That's why I was recommending 60s diffs. Its your ride however and whatever path you choose, I hope it works out. Seriously, start a members thread too, a bunch of people on here would love to see it come together. It sounds like an interesting project.

60's have the same cv's as hilux

Post by **redzook** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:27 pm

preecy wrote:hey
i just brought some hilux diff for my suzuki vitara and was wondering if the tail shafts line up with the vitara transfer

if you cant figure that out for yourself you have no idea

and you should not even be thinking about doin this your self

Post by **redzook** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:29 pm

preecy wrote:
umm yes u r wrong I'm a diesel mechanic and i have the diffs and not they arnt to narrow i hav measured them up 2 compared to my vitara width they r 3 inches wider and i no its not just a bolt in job I'm not an
idiot but yeah thanx for advice guys helps alot

what did you measure?

i am almost certain vitara WMS-WMS is wider then hilux (solid axles)

Post by cj » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:32 pm

redzook wrote:
preecy wrote:
umm yes u r wrong I'm a diesel mechanic and i have the diffs and not they arnt to narrow i hav measured them up 2 compared to my vitara width they r 3 inches wider and i no its not just a bolt in job I'm not an
idiot but yeah thanx for advice guys helps alot
what did you measure?

i am almost certain vitara WMS-WMS is wider then hilux (solid axles)

You and me both but not by much. The later stuff was wider but then so were the later Vits.

Post by **Zook_Fan** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:37 pm

for 1.5 inch on each side just get your rims cut and flipped or just a big offset. that would be loads cheaper even if you did kill your wheel bearings once a month

Post by **Highway-Star** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:22 pm

preecy wrote: umm yes u r wrong I'm a diesel mechanic and i have the diffs and not they arnt to narrow i hav measured them up 2 compared to my vitara width they r 3 inches wider and i no its not just a bolt in job I'm not an
idiot but yeah thanx for advice guys helps alot

Well I think the same as some of the other posts, that the Vit diffs are wider. However Im prepared to be proved wrong. Could you post up your measurements of your diffs for everyone then?
(prefer measurements from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (WMS)).

Post by **Highway-Star** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:25 pm

preecy wrote: umm yes u r wrong I'm a diesel mechanic and i have the diffs and not they arnt to narrow i hav measured them up 2 compared to my vitara width they r 3 inches wider and i no its not just a bolt in job I'm not an
idiot but yeah thanx for advice guys helps alot

Well I think the same as some of the other posts, that the Vit diffs are wider. However Im prepared to be proved wrong. Could you post up your measurements of your diffs for everyone then?
(prefer measurements from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (WMS)).

Post by **Guy** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:22 pm

Zook_Fan wrote:for 1.5 inch on each side just get your rims cut and flipped or just a big offset. that would be loads cheaper even if you did kill your wheel bearings once a month

The wheel bearings hold up supprisingly well, the car on top just isnt that heavy

Post by **v840** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:59 pm

redzook wrote:
60's have the same cv's as hilux

No shit? I have it in my head that 60s have larger CVs.

I stand corrected. Learn something new every day eh.

Post by **preecy** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:45 am

thanks everyone for Ur advice helps heaps the only thing i am unsure of now is what sort of power assist steering box to run on the hilux high steer kit ,dunno weather to run a IFS hilux steering box or a vitara power assist one, any ideas would be great.

thanx again guys

Post by **DeWsE** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:54 am

preecy wrote:thanks everyone for Ur advice helps heaps the only thing i am unsure of now is what sort of power assist steering box to run on the hilux high steer kit ,dunno weather to run a IFS hilux steering box or a vitara power assist one, any ideas would be great.

thanx again guys

Depending on what size tyres you are running. You are best off upgrading to an IFS lux system.

Edit, just reread what you plan to run. Definately go the bigger system from the lux.

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