Rear diff seal leaking [update] Need new diff :-(

Post by **cocacola-light** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:36 pm

Hi guys,
I'm in the Grampians right now and saw today that there is oil leaking out of my rear diff (Landcrusier 60). In Horshom at ARB they told me that this is a problem with the seal. They refieled it and said I could travel with it. We are going to the Big Desert NP tomorrow and will go to Adalaide thereafter.

Is there anybody out there who can change the seal? We would shoot you some beer.

Cheers,
the German traveler

Post by **trains** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:24 am

Was it out of the middle of the diff, ie the pinion seal, or one of the side axle seals??

Where will you be staying when in Adelaide.
north, south etc??

Trains

Post by **cocacola-light** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:07 am

Hi Trains,

it should be the pinion seal. We are still looking for accomondation (couchsurfing) in Adelaide. But we can meet you anywhere.

Cheers

Post by **cocacola-light** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:14 pm

We should arrive on Friday in Adelaide.

Post by **trains** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:25 pm

Hi mate, got your pm.

Should be able to help you out, as per the pm. It will be good experience for you to know how its done.

There is a caravan park not far from here too.

Will wait to hear from you

Trains

Post by **bazzle** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:15 pm

Check breather not stuck. If it still has the cap remove it , valve and spring and push an open hose on it. Pressure build up forces oil out seals.

Bazzle

Post by **trains** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:43 pm

Hi Bazzle.

Problem was that the pinion bearing had freeplay, thus flogging around, and leaking out the seal.
They will check the breather today when they have clean hands, it was a tube up from the diff, and into the body somewhere.

Old seal was quite hard, and brittle anyway.

Tightened up the nut to no freeplay on the pinion nut, and restaked it and used locktite too.
Looks like the crush spacer has been crushed a bit more in the rigours of driving around, and thus the bearings lost their preload etc.

They should be fine for the rest of their travels.

Any of you up in Alice, look out for them, there good blokes.

Trains

Post by **cocacola-light** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:02 pm

Thanks to Trains again. Did an awesome job! The car drives better now and we have no more oil loses.

We checked the breather and cleaned it today. There is some metal breather with a spring on it. Is this the original one or already modified?

Post by **trains** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:31 am

I assume that s the metal cap you found on the end of the breather tube.
Its got a spring loaded cover/ cap inside the external cover.
Just wash it out with petrol to remove any dirt grit etc. and make sure it opens when blown thru, as its a light spring.
The put it back away, and enjoy your trip.

You will love the oodnadatta track, coober, breakaways, painted desert, pink roadhouse, dalhousie, ruins near mt dare etc.

Wish we were coming with you guys.

Trains

Post by **cocacola-light** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:36 pm

I just did the Kakadu NP and now I'm in Katherine. A few minutes ago I realised that the rear diff is leaking again! I have done around 10.000km since we replaced the seal.

I'll check the breather tomorrow morning. Can the seal be broken after that short time?

Post by **hulsty** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:12 pm

You'll probably find that the diff is dying, it will keep flogging out seals and getting noiser as it wears. I did the same with mine, replaced seal, tightened the nut up. Tightening the nut up changes the gear mesh and wears things. My diff last another year like this with lots of freeplay and was very noisey on overrun. I replaced it and all fine!!

Post by **danny40** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:59 pm

hulsty wrote:You'll probably find that the diff is dying, it will keep flogging out seals and getting noiser as it wears. I did the same with mine, replaced seal, tightened the nut up. Tightening the nut up changes the gear mesh and wears things. My diff last another year like this with lots of freeplay and was very noisey on overrun. I replaced it and all fine!!

on the money,
same happend to my 60 series it was the main bearing behind the seal that was buggered because it had play in it kept rooting the seal, changed the seal twice then the bearing decided to disintgrated and game over.

Post by **cocacola-light** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:47 pm

Fu**! I just hope they have a seal here in Katherine and can replace it tomorrow. When it last the next 15.000k's I would be happy. How much is a new diff? Is there any sence in buying a used one?

Post by **cocacola-light** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:22 am

The mechanic told me today, that my diff is dead. Have to believe him. He said a used diff is $1.000 but of course no guarantee that this will work long

A new one should be around $4.000.

For labour, seals,... he'll take around $700.

Is this again one of this "we rip off a German" or are those prices ok?

And the used one will be a front diff. Is thaat really ok?

Post by **Tiny** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:43 am

cocacola-light wrote:The mechanic told me today, that my diff is dead. Have to believe him. He said a used diff is $1.000 but of course no guarantee that this will work long A new one should be around $4.000.

For labour, seals,... he'll take around $700.

Is this again one of this "we rip off a German" or are those prices ok?

And the used one will be a front diff. Is thaat really ok?

wont need the whole diff mate, just the centre, should be able to get a new cente a lot cheaper than $1000 even up there.

Changing out the centre is easy as.

remove the bolts on the axle both sides and slide the axles out a little (need to clear the centre) you could replace the axle seals at this stage if you wanted to as well.

when the axles are out, take the drive shaft off the centre and undo the nuts on the centre. Once this is done the centre come out of the housing. It is VERY heavy, may need to get someone under there with you to pull it out (btw I am presuming you have seen and helped with this proccess when trains assisted you with the last one?)

with that done, you throw the new (used) centre in and do everything up and axles back in etc. you can use a new seal for the centre, but I just use RTV silicon, just make sure the surfaces are clean and smear some on both sides.

good luck. but yeah, that sounds VERY pricey and unnessisary for what the problem is, all up with the new centre to swap it should not take much longer than 2 to 3 hours to dop the job

Post by **Jacked** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:46 am

used 60 diff's are about $400 from a wrecker in melb. Fitting should only be about $200.

You are in the middle of the country so it is going to be more expensive!

Post by **Tiny** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:46 am

here is alink for a bunch or wreckers etc in the region, try a ring around for the 60s centre, check what ration the diff is first thogh, will make life easier, not sure on where this info is on 60s, someone here may pipe up, or ask in the toyo section. you may know what ratio it is anyway, also the mechenic should be able to tell you

http://www.yellowbook.com.au/Category53 ... YCLERS.htm

Post by **hulsty** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:57 pm

If you really get stuck you could swap the diffs front to rear, they are the same The rooted rear one might be ok for intermittant use in the front.

Post by **chimpboy** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:06 pm

hulsty wrote:If you really get stuck you could swap the diffs front to rear, they are the same The rooted rear one might be ok for intermittant use in the front.

I reckon that is a pretty good idea as a worst case scenario, I bet the front one is pretty good as it has had a lot less use and 99% of the driving here will be in 2WD mode anyway.

Even if you have to hang around in Alice for a few days while a centre gets shipped there it shouldn't be too bad, I mean you can do bus tours etc out of Alice for your amusement in the meantime and it is not such a remote spot that it will be hard to get a replacement diff centre shipped to you.

$700 for fitting and $1000 for a used diff is definitely too much.

Post by **ferrit** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:16 pm

I paid $750 to get a diff for a hilux fully rebuilt- that was with new Gears, new bearings and seals, re-machined a heap of shit, solid preload spacer, custom built Air locker piston, Re-Machine the seal surfaces to take bigger O-rings etc.

Dropped the centre in, picked it up.

And $1000 for a 2nd hand diff is way too much- i paid $1100 for a PAIR of diffs, WITH air lockers and compressor!

Post by **cocacola-light** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:07 pm

I just bought a 32mm socket and will try to retighten everything myself. I'm in Katherine and it pretty boaring here. Hope the diff will last to Cairns and than I'll get a new center. But I'm to afraid to change that one myself. Maybe there is someone who can give me a helping hand. I like to learn and do it myself but I also need a "supervisor"

Thanks for the idea and the help. You guys rock! I have such great experiences with you and your held here in Australia. It's just amazing!

Post by **Zeyphly** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:05 pm

I would say your pionor bearings haved failed. It would be worth getting it fixed before you head off to cairns.

Post by **lay80n** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:25 pm

If you can find a local board member that can help you, just swap them front to rear as suggested. That way you should make it Cairns and someone can sort you out with a replacement centre.

Best of luck.

Layto....

Post by **Tiny** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:14 pm

mate, if you decide to keep heading Cairns, make sure you have the correct spanners to remove the rear drive shaft. If the rear centre fails, you can always remove the shaft and engage 4wd and it will drive in 2wd only, that should at least get you out of trouble until you get to a town.

bear in mind if the rear centre does go it could bind up, in which case you will need to remove the rear axles as well, so make sure you have the tools and some rags to shove in the axle tube as well to stop to much dust getting in

good old bush mechenics

Post by **dumbdunce** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:47 pm

I think the $1000 is fair, drive in/drive out. it's a lot less work than swapping centres front to rear, only to have to pull the whole front axle apart again because you put a broken centre in. a lot less to spend on oil, grease, gaskets, a lot less time off the road.

look at it like this:

a second hand centre with warranty from a wrecker in melbourne/sydney/perth/brisbane is $400, freight to NT will run $50 at least. The mechanic has to put his margin on the parts, say 10% if he's feeling generous, so the diff is conservatively $500, on the floor of the workshop in Darwin. He's looking at working on a 20 - 25 year old vehicle, so his estimate includes an allowance for stuck cone washers, broken studs, having to cut off and replace at least one of the companion flange bolts because a previous numpty rounded the head off. The he needs to supply a diff flange gasket, the drive flange gaskets, he'll possibly put a new pinion seal in it, and there are consumables to consider - oil, rags, oil disposal, all the little things add up - say $150 for incidentals. Then the actual labour to swap the centre is a fair 3 hours, and $88/hour is not unreasonable. I'm not so bright at maths but that looks like over $900 worth to me, and sure there might be a 10% German Tourist tax, but it's cheap insurance.

I know you can get a decent centre for $200 in/near a city and it's an afternoon's work with some mates to swap it, but we're talking about a loaded touring vehicle that needs to drive significant distance in potentially difficult terrain, it's had to put a price on peace of mind.

cheers

DD

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:59 pm

dumbdunce wrote:I think the $1000 is fair, drive in/drive out. it's a lot less work than swapping centres front to rear, only to have to pull the whole front axle apart again because you put a broken centre in. a lot less to spend on oil, grease, gaskets, a lot less time off the road.

look at it like this:

a second hand centre with warranty from a wrecker in melbourne/sydney/perth/brisbane is $400, freight to NT will run $50 at least. The mechanic has to put his margin on the parts, say 10% if he's feeling generous, so the diff is conservatively $500, on the floor of the workshop in Darwin. He's looking at working on a 20 - 25 year old vehicle, so his estimate includes an allowance for stuck cone washers, broken studs, having to cut off and replace at least one of the companion flange bolts because a previous numpty rounded the head off. The he needs to supply a diff flange gasket, the drive flange gaskets, he'll possibly put a new pinion seal in it, and there are consumables to consider - oil, rags, oil disposal, all the little things add up - say $150 for incidentals. Then the actual labour to swap the centre is a fair 3 hours, and $88/hour is not unreasonable. I'm not so bright at maths but that looks like over $900 worth to me, and sure there might be a 10% German Tourist tax, but it's cheap insurance.

I know you can get a decent centre for $200 in/near a city and it's an afternoon's work with some mates to swap it, but we're talking about a loaded touring vehicle that needs to drive significant distance in potentially difficult terrain, it's had to put a price on peace of mind.

cheers

DD

Quite true. Plus when you sell the vehicle at the end of the trip you will have a receipt for fitting a "new" rear diff.

Post by **midi73** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:43 pm

ISUZUROVER wrote:
dumbdunce wrote:I think the $1000 is fair, drive in/drive out. it's a lot less work than swapping centres front to rear, only to have to pull the whole front axle apart again because you put a broken centre in. a lot less to spend on oil, grease, gaskets, a lot less time off the road.

look at it like this:

a second hand centre with warranty from a wrecker in melbourne/sydney/perth/brisbane is $400, freight to NT will run $50 at least. The mechanic has to put his margin on the parts, say 10% if he's feeling generous, so the diff is conservatively $500, on the floor of the workshop in Darwin. He's looking at working on a 20 - 25 year old vehicle, so his estimate includes an allowance for stuck cone washers, broken studs, having to cut off and replace at least one of the companion flange bolts because a previous numpty rounded the head off. The he needs to supply a diff flange gasket, the drive flange gaskets, he'll possibly put a new pinion seal in it, and there are consumables to consider - oil, rags, oil disposal, all the little things add up - say $150 for incidentals. Then the actual labour to swap the centre is a fair 3 hours, and $88/hour is not unreasonable. I'm not so bright at maths but that looks like over $900 worth to me, and sure there might be a 10% German Tourist tax, but it's cheap insurance.

I know you can get a decent centre for $200 in/near a city and it's an afternoon's work with some mates to swap it, but we're talking about a loaded touring vehicle that needs to drive significant distance in potentially difficult terrain, it's had to put a price on peace of mind.

cheers

DD
Quite true. Plus when you sell the vehicle at the end of the trip you will have a receipt for fitting a "new" rear diff.

$1000 would be fair drive in drive out. But in his case it is $1000 for a 2nd hand diff and $700 for labour. I dont think that is a good price anywhere in OZ.
And also he wont be able to say that he fitted a new diff, because it was for a second hand diff with no warranty.
I live in the north west pilbarah district at present. This would have to be the dearest place in oz to freight to, and even here I dont think a diff centre would be that expensive freight wise. So I would say by a centre, Even from someone here on OL, and freight it there. Then either fit it yourself (not really that hard) someone here could give you a step by step proscess. or pay someone to bolt it in.
My 2c

Post by **Shadow** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:10 pm

can get your diff fully rebuilt for about the 650 mark in brisbane.

Ftting would be about $100-200 max.

That would be with machined gears all new bearings and seals.

If its going to cost $900 to put a second hand one in, just get yours rebuilt!

Post by **dumbdunce** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:29 pm

midi73 wrote:
ISUZUROVER wrote:
dumbdunce wrote:I think the $1000 is fair, drive in/drive out. it's a lot less work than swapping centres front to rear, only to have to pull the whole front axle apart again because you put a broken centre in. a lot less to spend on oil, grease, gaskets, a lot less time off the road.

look at it like this:

a second hand centre with warranty from a wrecker in melbourne/sydney/perth/brisbane is $400, freight to NT will run $50 at least. The mechanic has to put his margin on the parts, say 10% if he's feeling generous, so the diff is conservatively $500, on the floor of the workshop in Darwin. He's looking at working on a 20 - 25 year old vehicle, so his estimate includes an allowance for stuck cone washers, broken studs, having to cut off and replace at least one of the companion flange bolts because a previous numpty rounded the head off. The he needs to supply a diff flange gasket, the drive flange gaskets, he'll possibly put a new pinion seal in it, and there are consumables to consider - oil, rags, oil disposal, all the little things add up - say $150 for incidentals. Then the actual labour to swap the centre is a fair 3 hours, and $88/hour is not unreasonable. I'm not so bright at maths but that looks like over $900 worth to me, and sure there might be a 10% German Tourist tax, but it's cheap insurance.

I know you can get a decent centre for $200 in/near a city and it's an afternoon's work with some mates to swap it, but we're talking about a loaded touring vehicle that needs to drive significant distance in potentially difficult terrain, it's had to put a price on peace of mind.

cheers

DD
Quite true. Plus when you sell the vehicle at the end of the trip you will have a receipt for fitting a "new" rear diff.
$1000 would be fair drive in drive out. But in his case it is $1000 for a 2nd hand diff and $700 for labour. I dont think that is a good price anywhere in OZ.
And also he wont be able to say that he fitted a new diff, because it was for a second hand diff with no warranty.
I live in the north west pilbarah district at present. This would have to be the dearest place in oz to freight to, and even here I dont think a diff centre would be that expensive freight wise. So I would say by a centre, Even from someone here on OL, and freight it there. Then either fit it yourself (not really that hard) someone here could give you a step by step proscess. or pay someone to bolt it in.
My 2c

true, that is outrageous.

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:41 pm

midi73 wrote: $1000 would be fair drive in drive out. But in his case it is $1000 for a 2nd hand diff and $700 for labour. I dont think that is a good price anywhere in OZ.

x3 indeed. Must be the "backpackers who have no idea about cars and are stuck here tax"

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Rear diff seal leaking [update] Need new diff :-(

Rear diff seal leaking [update] Need new diff :-(

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