help with 3rz conversion

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:30 pm

im nearly finished my 3rz conversion, just got a few things i want to clarify. My 3rz came from a 2000 model 4x2 hilux, am i meant to have a oxygen sensor? do i need the vehicle speed sensor?
Cheers for any help

Post by **johno88** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:43 pm

Having just finshed the same conversion recently i dont think they run an oxygen sensor. If they do im not running one any way. There was a thread recently about this posted by smaddock i think. By the speed sensor do you mean the speedo?

Post by **Alan 4Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:47 pm

You may need an oxy sensor, the ECU uses it to determine fuel mixtures. Not familiar with the 3RZ..

I'm going to be doing a 7MGE conversion in the future and I've been told that most people don't bother connecting the speed sensor. Apparently the ECU will issue a fault code above 100km/h but that's about it..

Hope that helps

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:47 pm

reading the wiring instructions all it says is:

C9 Green & Orange Vehicle Speed Sensor - input

it is listed under non essential but i have done alot of reading and alot of US sites are saying it is required.

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:50 pm

Alan 4Runner wrote:Yeah you will need an oxy sensor, the ECU uses it to determine fuel mixtures.

Not 100% sure about the speed sensor though, I'm going to be doing a 7MGE conversion in the future and I've been told that most people don't bother connecting the speed sensor. Apparently the ECU will issue a fault code above 100km/h but that's about it..

Hope that helps

where is the oxy sensor located? in the exhaust manifold? i have the stock exhaust manifold that came on the motor and there is no allowance for a oxy sensor

Post by **Alan 4Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:58 pm

If there is one it may be on the manifold or just after it but it will be before the cat.. otherwise it doesn't need one
Do you have the pinouts for the 3RZ ECU? Would show up there..
I'm not positive there will be one but I know they are beneficial for fuel efficiency.

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:07 pm

got another couple of Q's. do i need some sort of one way valve on the break booster vac line? At the moment i have it plumbed straight from manifold to booster.

The other thing worrying me is in the wiring instructions it says:
> C11 Pink & Black +ve Starter motor trigger ie. ign switch - input

but c11 on my ecu is purple with yellow trace, there is no pink/black

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:10 pm

Alan 4Runner wrote:If there is one it may be on the manifold or just after it but it will be before the cat.. otherwise it doesn't need one
Do you have the pinouts for the 3RZ ECU? Would show up there..
I'm not positive there will be one but I know they are beneficial for fuel efficiency.

no i have nothing in regards to documentation/diagrams on the 3rz, but i did notice i have an unidentified plug in the engine loom, maybe for an oxy sensor???

Post by **Alan 4Runner** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:18 pm

If it's a heated style sensor the it will have 4 wires, 2 for heating it and 2 for the signal, otherwise it will only have 2 wires..
2 wires may be the same colour, they would be the heating wires..

Post by **johno88** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:19 pm

We plumped in the brake booster as you have with out any one way value and it works fine. The unidentified plug may be a air temp sensor? Thats some thing that im missing currently.

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:33 pm

johno88 wrote:We plumped in the brake booster as you have with out any one way value and it works fine. The unidentified plug may be a air temp sensor? Thats some thing that im missing currently.

Whereabouts in the stock intake piping is the air temp sensor? is it really needed

also can anyone clarify my wiring query?

in the wiring instructions it says:
> C11 Pink & Black +ve Starter motor trigger ie. ign switch - input

but c11 on my ecu is purple with yellow trace, there is no pink/black

Post by **johno88** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:54 pm

Im pretty sure they were plumbed into the air box. The car will run with out it as does mine. But on cold mornings it runs pretty shit until optimal temp is reached. Went to toyota and they have given me the wrong one so ill have to take that back. They said that it may improve fuel economy ect having one. Cant help you with the wiring as my brother did it all, ill find out tomorrow and get back to you.

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:24 pm

ok cheers. i went out and had a look at the unidentified plug, it turns out i have two unidentified plugs, one runs with the a/f meter wiring and is a 3 wire plug so i rekon that will the the air temp sensor and the other comes from behind the motor and is a two wire plug, so im thinking that may be for an oxy sensor

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:32 pm

I've not done an 3RZ swap but I can tell you if the factory puts a sensor on the motor you need it.

I'm not aware of any factory, australian delivered EFI petrol engine without an oxygen sensor. It is used by the ECU to monitor A/F ratio on light throttle and cruise. Without it, best case is the car will use BUCKETLOADS of fuel. how do I know? I have a JDM 660cc EFI suzuki motor that doesn't run an 02 sensor from the factory. I've had a wideband 02 sensor on the motor and they run "safe" which means very rich. As a result, my economy is terrible.

In relation to IAT (intake air temperature) it's mandatory. With out it, the computer can't work out how much fuel to inject because it doesn't know how dense the air is. (3RZ's don't run an air flow meter that I recall, so they use the pressure in the manifold and the temperature of the air to work out fuel mapping)

I'd run a VSS if you can, even if there's no "obvious" problem without one. It will have an effect on closed throttle fuelling - if the cars moving, the engine will be fuelled a bit richer so throttle response is better, as an example.

Just some thoughts. I general, manufacturers don't add sensors for fun - they all help the engine run better.

Steve.

Post by **Willy Hilux** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:39 pm

Pink with black stripe is the starter trigger. Is yours a manual ECU or Auto ECU ????

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:42 pm

Gwagensteve wrote:I've not done an 3RZ swap but I can tell you if the factory puts a sensor on the motor you need it.

I'm not aware of any factory, australian delivered EFI petrol engine without an oxygen sensor. It is used by the ECU to monitor A/F ratio on light throttle and cruise. Without it, best case is the car will use BUCKETLOADS of fuel. how do I know? I have a JDM 660cc EFI suzuki motor that doesn't run an 02 sensor from the factory. I've had a wideband 02 sensor on the motor and they run "safe" which means very rich. As a result, my economy is terrible.

In relation to IAT (intake air temperature) it's mandatory. With out it, the computer can't work out how much fuel to inject because it doesn't know how dense the air is. (3RZ's don't run an air flow meter that I recall, so they use the pressure in the manifold and the temperature of the air to work out fuel mapping)

I'd run a VSS if you can, even if there's no "obvious" problem without one. It will have an effect on closed throttle fuelling - if the cars moving, the engine will be fuelled a bit richer so throttle response is better, as an example.

Just some thoughts. I general, manufacturers don't add sensors for fun - they all help the engine run better.

Steve.

Cheers for the input, the 3rz does run an A/F meter. I do plan on running all the sensors that came stock but as yet i cant be sure what sensors i need. I might ring toyota tomorrow and find out

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:47 pm

just googled the subject and found this:

There are two different style MAF sensors for the 2rz / 3rz engines. one is a 3 wire sensor, and the other is a 5 wire sensor. I believe that the newer MAF sensors (which are 5-wire) have the intake air temp sensor built into the MAF, whereas the older 3 wire sensors dont (hence there is a separate IAT sensor plugged into the air box)

I have a 5 wire a/f meter so this now leaves an unidentified plug

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:13 pm

Willy Hilux wrote:Pink with black stripe is the starter trigger. Is yours a manual ECU or Auto ECU ????

mine is definitely manual ecu. It is from a 2wd if that makes any difference?? There is definately no pink/black stripe, on my plug c11 is purple yellow. What does the ecu use the start trigger for?

Post by **dillza_69** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:17 pm

ok im adding to this thread as i find more info, the unidentified plug near the A/F meter has been identified... i Found the following in another forum:

Some later 2wd hilux's fitted with the 3RZ had O2 sensors all the others had a dial under the bonnet near the air cleaner for mixture adjustments

so this means the air intake temp sensor is built into the A/F meter and according to the above i dont need an oxy sensor becasue i have the above.

now im back to having one unidentified plug!

Post by **johno88** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:01 pm

dillza_69 wrote:ok im adding to this thread as i find more info, the unidentified plug near the A/F meter has been identified... i Found the following in another forum:

Some later 2wd hilux's fitted with the 3RZ had O2 sensors all the others had a dial under the bonnet near the air cleaner for mixture adjustments

so this means the air intake temp sensor is built into the A/F meter and according to the above i dont need an oxy sensor becasue i have the above.

now im back to having one unidentified plug!

Yep your absolutly correct about the dial up mixture adjustment. I was at toyota today and they dont have that item listed on the computer, but the machanic came out and said thats thats exactly what it is. Is the unidentified plug on the passager side?

Post by **dillza_69** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:30 pm

Thanks for confirming that...

as for the other plug it is kinda hard to tell, it comes out of the engine loom at the back of the motor, because i have the loom running through firewall on the passenger side that is where the unidentified plug is. It is in its own black split conduit which separates from the main loom at the back of the motor. Any ideas?

Also what does the ecu need the start trig for? i have it hooked up but dont know why it needs it??

Post by **johno88** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:43 pm

I have a spare plug in the same place which my brother (who did all the electrical work on my car) said was ment to plug onto the gear box. maybe some thing simlar?

Post by **dillza_69** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:27 pm

sounds good to me.

I got it started tonight, it wont idle but will run constantly above idle. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Yes i have a/f connected, it seems to be a bit dusty though

Post by **dillza_69** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:52 pm

i might have just answered my own question, i had the IAC valve plumbed pre A/F meter. It needs to be plumbed after the A/F. I will try this tomorrow fingers crossed.

Three more questions:
1. I have also read that alot of people have trouble with the stock fuel reg. Has anyone here had probs with the fuel reg?

2. what have people done for the coolant temp signal? it is not in the wiring instructions

3. I have fitted a power steer box, which hole is pressure side and which hole is return?

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