Need help with getting Desiel to the injectors =(

Post by **ethann** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:13 pm

Hello guys,

In need of help.
I have a GQ, 4.2 Desiel turbo.
Last Sunday I went 4bin' came home with the tank just over empty.
The next day my dad went to run my sister to school (It was parked on a slight lean but it shouldn't of effected it I thought) and it went to fire then just didn't and would not fire. Didn't know what was up so we kept trying to turn it over, And flattened the battery trying to turn it over.
So we put that on charge and tried again with clutching it at the same time.
Still no go, Not knowing what was up we checked all the fuses, everything okay.
Checked the fuel pump, The pump wasn't working, No fuel coming out.
So we got the boat pump and a tiny bit come out but you could feel the air in the line.
We got $20 of desiel and got it up to flat ground and fuel came through the pump easy but now it doesn't really come out the injector pump, We've got it slightly coming out the injector with them loosened off a little bit.
But we keep flattening batteries, trying to get the fuel up.

It's just not coming out really strong.
We tried getting the air out by loosening the top bleeder on the injector pump but we didn't want to loose a heap of desiel on the ground.

Could it possibly be that my pickup in the tank has moved and i gota have a lot more fuel in there for it to pick up?
As in, At the moment cause theres still a little bit of air coming through the top bleeder on the injector pump it's going to work very good?

Cheers,
Hope for a reply soon as I want to wheel this weekend =(

Post by **Taff** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:30 pm

are you using the primer pump to get diesel up to the injectors or are you just cranking it?

checked the fuel filter? could be full of sludge from the bottom of your tank.

Post by **ethann** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:34 pm

We've used the pump to pump it up, it pumps up out the bleeder on top of the injector pump though.
It was a reco'd injector pump also.

Haven't checked the fuel filter that I know of.

Post by **bogged** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:43 pm

I'd chuck another jerry can of diesel in there.

Blow the fuel line back to the tank, incase it picked up any shit.. Change fuel filter..

Prime it then... If you are gettin fuel up priming it, then the pickup is gettin fuel out of tank, so that doesnt sound like an issue.

You cracked the line on top of the pump, and diesel came out, so theres diesel there too, or am I reading it wrong?

Post by **ethann** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:49 pm

bogged wrote:I'd chuck another jerry can of diesel in there.

Blow the fuel line back to the tank, incase it picked up any shit.. Change fuel filter..

Prime it then... If you are gettin fuel up priming it, then the pickup is gettin fuel out of tank, so that doesnt sound like an issue.

You cracked the line on top of the pump, and diesel came out, so theres diesel there too, or am I reading it wrong?

yep in the morning going to chuck another $20 in, And with a few replies off other forums and this one between me and the old boy it should be right.

Theres diesel coming out from the fuel pump down to the injector pump but with the bleeder on top of the injector pump let off, Heaps of air still comes out, We just didn't think there would of been as much as what was coming out, So with this diesel tomorrow where jsut not going to stop until the air stops.
It's exactly what the manual said to do, But we just didn't think that so much air would come out.

There is diesel coming out of the injectors but only a tiny bit.
So there must still be plenty of air in the lines?

Post by **SIMMO84** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:24 pm

have you cracked all the injector lines at the injectors and then wound the engine until the fuel comes out of them all? if you havent it will never start. Also run a wire from the pos terminal on the battery to the fuel solenoid on your injector pump just to rule out electrical problems.

Post by **pongo** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:38 am

SIMMO84 wrote:have you cracked all the injector lines at the injectors and then wound the engine until the fuel comes out of them all? if you havent it will never start. Also run a wire from the pos terminal on the battery to the fuel solenoid on your injector pump just to rule out electrical problems.

Welcome to owning a diesel. Dont run em low/out of fuel. Some can self prime and bleed but most of them need to be fully bled.

Once its running on a few cylinders keep bleeding the lines at the injectors one by one till they all fire.

even $5 of diesel is cheaper than rooting a battery in the process

Post by **Reddo** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:43 pm

crack all injectors open and get pumping, once you start getting fuel to the injectors close them off one buy as the fuel comes out of them, once you get about 5 down, close off all injectors, then throw some aero start into the air intake and try to get it going, if it starts to run, open up one of the injectors to try and bleed the rest of the air out. Its gonna take time, but thats how i did it on the 2H i had.

Post by **ethann** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:51 pm

It's still not working.

Could the injector pump be stuffed? Even though when you pump the primer it comes out the top of the injector pump bleeder?
Diesel does get up to the injectors but it's not a strong flow.

I'm so pissed off.
I can't beleive its doing this, everything that everyone knows about diesel that I know has done everything they no.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:22 pm

Did you run a wire to the pump?

Post by **ethann** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:37 pm

Dad said he could here it working.
It clicked when turning on.

So we didn't try that.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:42 pm

Fair enough, i had the same sort of problem had fuel coming out of the lines at the injectiors but no go, ended up being blowen fuse for the engine run a wire and away she went.

Post by **ethann** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:47 pm

It fired off aerostart.

I'm getting number 6, 4, 3, 5 drissling fuel out of the injector, not a strong current.

I am just so pissed off!

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:53 pm

Try the wire, cant hurt. or pull the solenoid out and you should be able to remove the pin inside and then refit the solenoid sounds like there is not enough fuel so start.

Post by **chunks** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:58 pm

Have you tried cranking it while pumping the primer?

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:59 pm

And another thing hold it flat while your starting it dont pump the accelerator just hold it flat until it fires up, cant believe i missed the most crutial part.
ps. im a diesel fitter

Post by **ethann** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:21 pm

Yeah tried pumping the pump while turning it over.

Haven't tried holding the throttle flat, It does seem like theres not enough fuel.

I really just hope that the injector pumps fine, I don't wanna have to pay for a new one =(.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:26 pm

ethann wrote:Yeah tried pumping the pump while turning it over.

Haven't tried holding the throttle flat, It does seem like theres not enough fuel.

I really just hope that the injector pumps fine, I don't wanna have to pay for a new one =(.

Try it ill bet it fires first go....
i doubt the pump is stuffed theres no reason it would be from running out of fuel.

Post by **Dingo** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:16 am

This is the procedure I have used for years and it has never failed unless there is another problem.

1/ Make sure there is plenty of fuel in tank to pick up.

2/ Take the filter off and make sure it is not blocked up and that it is full of fuel before replacing it. (contrary to belief you can get an air lock in the filter even after using the primer pump to fill it, so make sure it is full before replacing)

3/ loosen the bleed on top of the injection pump and use the primer pump to pump the injection pump full of fuel and lock it off whilst still pumping the primer pump.

4/ crack all the injector line open on top of the injectors.

5/ have some crank the engine and hold the accelerator full open (do not pump it) until fuel pours out of the furthest injector from the pump then stop cranking and lock it off.

6/ repeat step 5 for all lines. Even if it starts before all lines are bled.

If you worried about spilling diesel on the ground put something down to catch it i.e old cardboard box flat on the ground to soak up any spillage. don't worry about the engine bay it can be cleaned later.

Post by **ethann** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:06 am

Cheers mate,
I'll give that a crack tomorrow, I'm having a break from it today and going 4bin in a mates truck with him.

I've tried all that except holding the throttlw flat while crankin'.

I'll give that a go. Cheers again mate!

Post by **ethann** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:12 pm

Another thought, Could it be a split in a fuel line?
I didn't do anything today cause I want 4bín with some fellas in a mates 4b.

Cause theres always air in the line virtually.

BUT, Could it of ran with a split in the line somewhere?

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:09 pm

Defenetly but, you would have had trouble before now with starting unless it has just started Follow dingos procedure and you will be right, hopefully............

Post by **Harb** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:24 pm

sounds like air definitely.

Holding it flat wont make any difference as the throttle controls the governor's and they will be wide open until it starts then it will govern back to the throttle position..... throttles set the governor limit so thats not it.
I would say fill it up more just to be really sure there is enough fuel, and then pump the lift pump like crazy until it picks up the fuel its self....
you will not see huge amounts of fuel come out of the injector lines, as it is a very small measured amount....will seem like a small spirt at best.
Are the glow plugs active?
the fact you say it fires on aero start makes me think the cut off solenoid is in the shut down position......

Post by **ethann** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:32 pm

Is there an easy way of checking the lines for splits?
I haven't noticed fuel leaking.

On monday when the old boy when to start it it fired a little bit then just didn't.

It doesnt really squirt its more of a tiny little tinchy bit coming out of a couple of the injectors.

A couple times we have taken the glow plugs out just to lessen to compresion because its on;ly got about 70k on it so its still got a fair amount of compresion.

This cut off solenoid you speak of, Is that the solenoid on the injector pump? Should I just trying a wire from the battery straight to it like simmo suggested earlier?

I just want it to work

Post by **lay80n** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:40 pm

The actual amount of diesel that will come out for each firing stroke is only a drop or two. That is normal.

Where are you in Newcastle, if you really stuck i may be able to give you a hand, or someone else local may be able to drop in and give you a hand

Layto....

Post by **ethann** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:50 pm

I'm actually like 20 minutes north of Raymond Terrace.
@ Clarence Town.

I'm going to try these few ideas but if it doesn't work I'm going to go crazy!

Post by **ethann** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:26 pm

So after a week of pain, Aggeny, A broken heart, Blood, Sweat and beers.

The aggeny has ended, We bi-passed the kidneys and went straight for the heart, We connected the old girl up to a drip.

With that in place, Glow plugs out, Doctor Dad said 'Son, It's time to turn it over.' So I did that, 5-7 second intervals like the manual suggested, The old gal started to spit diesel out her injectors like there was no tomorrow, Doctor dad having to cover his eyes and mouth as it was squirting everywhere.
'Put those glow plugs back in' Demanded Doctor Dad.
The glow plugs were back in within' 3 minutes.

With not much Battery power left we crossed our fingers and hoped, Turned the key, The glow light went out, she fired, then stopped, Went again, Fired again this time tickled the throttle, Away she went, Bled the rest of the air out of the system, and there she was, Back to life.

Kept her running for abit, took out the old primer pump filter thingo, Replaced it with one out of a lux we had in the back yard, connected it up, Fired up again with out hesitation. She was back wanting to rumble.

Took her for a 50km run and didn't miss a beat.

Just like to thank every one for there help.
It's awesome to have such nice guys out there that don't mind lending some knowledge.
Cheers.

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Need help with getting Desiel to the injectors =(

Need help with getting Desiel to the injectors =(

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