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2010 & Beyond Update of XWC, EFS XI & EFS TEAMS
Moderator: evanstaniland
hi all, I do think dave is on the right track as far as restricting engine size, although I think it would best to be at the same size as manufacture, ie to match complince plate. 2009 nissan ute 3 liter, 2009 toyota 4.5liter just a thought!. this would compete make and driver or may be restrict intakes to limit engine performance? Winches is another thing as already said is it going to be unlimited or is ther plans to restrict this to? do we keep developing things or are they going to change also. i'm with you on the changes but where is it going to stop.
..
Well this might change my mind about the $6500 i was just about to spend on a pwr supercharger for my ls1 :(
www.teamecr.com.au
Let me get this straight...
With the new rules and penalties, will all current (and future developed) vehicles still be able to compete indefinitely, albiet with penalties? Or will they cease to be able to compete at all eventually?
I have had the opportunity to spectate at many of your events Dave, probably was at one of the first ones at LCMP back in the day. How vehicles have evolved. I think I may have some VHS footage of the event somewhere.
The question at the top of my post is most important, and my views here on in maybe irrelevant pending the outcome of the above...
The sport does need to evolve, and from time to time, so do the rules. With all the rules and regs babying our day to day life, motorsport needs as much exposure as it can get. You (Dave) said that if we (i am not a competitor yet unfortunately) dont like your rules, then run your own race. I understand your point, however, there can be a point where there will be too many events. As much as we would love to race every weekend, its just not viable in any racers schedule. We may be able to take on 1 or 2 more series of offroad racing....but until that happens, we need to maximise the ones we have. Vehicles need to be able to cross compete in as many events as possible to keep the exposure up, sponsors happy, us happy, and most importantly, the sport growing. It would be a shame to know that tens of millions of dollars in R&D, blood, sweat and tears have to be locked away in garages around the country because they dont comply to rules they once did.
There are ways around rules, they are meant to be bent. you will never be able to stay away from $$$ racing, it will find its way into production class.
If you dont create a class for the $$$ guys (which undoubtedly draw spectators) then consider allowing them to race indefinitely, albiet with penalties. As a spectator I love seeing the trucks evolve from year to year as they can afford to improve a little more, making the most of the rules they have.
All in all, most guys will only have one race truck, and chances are it owes them a small fortune (in some cases, a big fortune). They dont want to be restricted to racing 3 times a year when they have the potential to be at 15 or more events (winch based).
The trucks/competitors draw the crowds. At some point they need to be looked after too, they bring the spectator dollar.
I will still spectate your events no matter what happens, as 4x4 racing is better than no racing.
cheers
PAUL
With the new rules and penalties, will all current (and future developed) vehicles still be able to compete indefinitely, albiet with penalties? Or will they cease to be able to compete at all eventually?
I have had the opportunity to spectate at many of your events Dave, probably was at one of the first ones at LCMP back in the day. How vehicles have evolved. I think I may have some VHS footage of the event somewhere.
The question at the top of my post is most important, and my views here on in maybe irrelevant pending the outcome of the above...
The sport does need to evolve, and from time to time, so do the rules. With all the rules and regs babying our day to day life, motorsport needs as much exposure as it can get. You (Dave) said that if we (i am not a competitor yet unfortunately) dont like your rules, then run your own race. I understand your point, however, there can be a point where there will be too many events. As much as we would love to race every weekend, its just not viable in any racers schedule. We may be able to take on 1 or 2 more series of offroad racing....but until that happens, we need to maximise the ones we have. Vehicles need to be able to cross compete in as many events as possible to keep the exposure up, sponsors happy, us happy, and most importantly, the sport growing. It would be a shame to know that tens of millions of dollars in R&D, blood, sweat and tears have to be locked away in garages around the country because they dont comply to rules they once did.
There are ways around rules, they are meant to be bent. you will never be able to stay away from $$$ racing, it will find its way into production class.
If you dont create a class for the $$$ guys (which undoubtedly draw spectators) then consider allowing them to race indefinitely, albiet with penalties. As a spectator I love seeing the trucks evolve from year to year as they can afford to improve a little more, making the most of the rules they have.
All in all, most guys will only have one race truck, and chances are it owes them a small fortune (in some cases, a big fortune). They dont want to be restricted to racing 3 times a year when they have the potential to be at 15 or more events (winch based).
The trucks/competitors draw the crowds. At some point they need to be looked after too, they bring the spectator dollar.
I will still spectate your events no matter what happens, as 4x4 racing is better than no racing.
cheers
PAUL
vanbox wrote:Let me get this straight...
With the new rules and penalties, will all current (and future developed) vehicles still be able to compete indefinitely, albiet with penalties? Or will they cease to be able to compete at all eventually?
I have had the opportunity to spectate at many of your events Dave, probably was at one of the first ones at LCMP back in the day. How vehicles have evolved. I think I may have some VHS footage of the event somewhere.
The question at the top of my post is most important, and my views here on in maybe irrelevant pending the outcome of the above...
cheers
PAUL
Hi Paul, I have never stated that current competitors could not compete from 2011 or for that mater indefinitely. But as time goes on I can see that in years ahead changes will be made and current competitors may look at changing what they had planed so they will comply with the rules.
Xtreme Rules are my rules, please do not get the idea that if you don't comply all you get will be a penalty. We are only talking about forced induction on motors at the moment. You will have to comply with all other Xtreme 4x4 Sport rules to compete.
I have given those Teams 18 months notice of change, which I think is fair warning of what is going to happen. Not like the NSW Goverment that have given about 3weeks notice of upcoming changes to modificiations.
All I am trying to do is to make it fair & not cheque book racing.
Which in the long run will encourage people like yourself to compete and not be left at the bottom run of the ladder with no hope in sight of climbing those steps in the future without $$$$$.
If people chose to build a vehicle now under 2009 rules more fool them.
I have not had one phone call regards what Xtreme 4x4 Sport is going to do in the future.
In saying that I must say that the competitors that are racing in the ARBXWC are good regardless of what the vehicle is worth.
But I am looking at the sport to grow and over the last 9 plus years I think I have done that with a lot of input from myself assisted by my officials, competitors & a great spectator base.
Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Dave,
I think you are on the right track, after running Superior Pro Truck for a few years I understand the logistics and co-ordination that goes into these events.
Being a sponsor to over 11 comp trucks and seeing them evolve over the years i can see the sport becoming more and more CHQ book racing.
That is fine for the guys with endless money and the sponsors who keep pumping money into these trucks to keep them going, but eventually it will create a gap that future competitors will not want to come into.
It seems okay for the guys to say just have more classes but i dont see these guys taking a minute of their time to setup the courses and do the logistics to run the extra classes yet put a cent towards the events or sponsorship.
As these trucks become faster and faster it is only time until someone dies in one of these events which will bring huge implications to the sport,
we all love the sound of a turbo / supercharger or v8 but we dont need to be creating 10 second drag cars out of winch challenge trucks.
For the guys who have supercharged and excessive horsepower then maybe Dave's winch challenge is not the right choice for you. More speed orientated events like Coopers Rally X is a better choice.
I am sure the unfortunate person who may lose his life by hitting a tree at full noise will have a family that will sue the insurance company and / or event organiser, ending these comps quick smart!
For the wallet racers who have the money to keep burning go to the drag racing scene or high speed events, winch challenge trucks should just need a good navi, good winch and good driving skill.
At the end of the day the guys who spend lesser amounts on their trucks have the same smile on their face to the guys who spent endless amount of money on their trucks.
My opinion only.
I think you are on the right track, after running Superior Pro Truck for a few years I understand the logistics and co-ordination that goes into these events.
Being a sponsor to over 11 comp trucks and seeing them evolve over the years i can see the sport becoming more and more CHQ book racing.
That is fine for the guys with endless money and the sponsors who keep pumping money into these trucks to keep them going, but eventually it will create a gap that future competitors will not want to come into.
It seems okay for the guys to say just have more classes but i dont see these guys taking a minute of their time to setup the courses and do the logistics to run the extra classes yet put a cent towards the events or sponsorship.
As these trucks become faster and faster it is only time until someone dies in one of these events which will bring huge implications to the sport,
we all love the sound of a turbo / supercharger or v8 but we dont need to be creating 10 second drag cars out of winch challenge trucks.
For the guys who have supercharged and excessive horsepower then maybe Dave's winch challenge is not the right choice for you. More speed orientated events like Coopers Rally X is a better choice.
I am sure the unfortunate person who may lose his life by hitting a tree at full noise will have a family that will sue the insurance company and / or event organiser, ending these comps quick smart!
For the wallet racers who have the money to keep burning go to the drag racing scene or high speed events, winch challenge trucks should just need a good navi, good winch and good driving skill.
At the end of the day the guys who spend lesser amounts on their trucks have the same smile on their face to the guys who spent endless amount of money on their trucks.
My opinion only.
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SPONSOR OF TOUGH TRACKS
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Re: 2010 & Beyond Update of XWC, EFS XI & EFS TEAMS
XTREME MMM wrote:
1:- Turbo's and Superchargers can only be fitted to the original engine (if under 4350cc) of that model of vehicle used.
so under that size its turbo the original engine only, or fit some other naturally aspirated engine that there doesnt appear to be any restrictions on?
I can see what you are trying to achieve and think its a great idea but once again youve only thought of how it could effect GQ's. I am trying hard to build something fun to your rules that suits me and my lack of budget and might maybe not be too much of a laughing stock but once again your rules make for a severe disadvantage.
www.auszookers.com
I say good luck to you dave, i mean how well is your production class going so far. round 1 been postponed twice is it. Well it seems the people you are trying to please dont actually exist so maybe you should look into pleasing the people that are out there racing now.
It seems that you are the only person with the problem, creating all the hassles. You are trying to prevent the inevitable. Cars are changing with new better ideas. And if you not gonna let people race some1 else will steep up and take you place who will let us race.
So ill sign out saying good luck to the future and i hope you have a good retirment fund....
Bowie.
It seems that you are the only person with the problem, creating all the hassles. You are trying to prevent the inevitable. Cars are changing with new better ideas. And if you not gonna let people race some1 else will steep up and take you place who will let us race.
So ill sign out saying good luck to the future and i hope you have a good retirment fund....
Bowie.
It seems okay for the guys to say just have more classes but i dont see these guys taking a minute of their time to setup the courses and do the logistics to run the extra classes yet put a cent towards the events or sponsorship.
As these trucks become faster and faster it is only time until someone dies in one of these events which will bring huge implications to the sport,
we all love the sound of a turbo / supercharger or v8 but we dont need to be creating 10 second drag cars out of winch challenge trucks.
For the guys who have supercharged and excessive horsepower then maybe Dave's winch challenge is not the right choice for you. More speed orientated events like Coopers Rally X is a better choice.
I am sure the unfortunate person who may lose his life by hitting a tree at full noise will have a family that will sue the insurance company and / or event organiser, ending these comps quick smart!
For the wallet racers who have the money to keep burning go to the drag racing scene or high speed events, winch challenge trucks should just need a good navi, good winch and good driving skill.
At the end of the day the guys who spend lesser amounts on their trucks have the same smile on their face to the guys who spent endless amount of money on their trucks.
as for no one offering to make tracks or help dave set up, he doesnt do this for free, he is making money. no one has ever said anything about entry fee's, and if us guys who want a bigger class and endless supplies of money charge us more...
and as for someone dying in a truck because its got lots of power, make safety rules more stringent,,,, someone could actully start checking rollcages at the start of a event, i think safety is a big issue at these events already, window nets attached to doors is one of the most unsafe thing i have seen, in a big rollover the doors will come straight open, the only reason mine stayed shut is cause the roof bars bent down over them, and if you roll down a big winch hill your going to go over just as many times as a high speed roll over.(lets face it, if you can reach 110kph on daves tracks your doing really well)
what do you class as excessive horsepower, maybe alot of as like driving hills and winching but want power to do it, 550hp isnt $73271728790 like everyone seams to think, ls2 with a bolt on blower or head and cam package will do it no drama, is that excessive.
as for the wallet racer comment, name me one wallet racer in out sport. name me one guy who has a bad navi and bad driving skiils who makes up for it with his wallet..................................... thqats right no one, i can think of one big dollar car, but has one of if not the best navi in the sport, he is probably the second best driver too(behind me:finger:)
and if the guys who spend lesser amounts are just as happy as us endless money pits whats the problem
I say good luck to you dave, i mean how well is your production class going so far. round 1 been postponed twice is it. Well it seems the people you are trying to please dont actually exist so maybe you should look into pleasing the people that are out there racing now.
It seems that you are the only person with the problem, creating all the hassles. You are trying to prevent the inevitable. Cars are changing with new better ideas. And if you not gonna let people race some1 else will steep up and take you place who will let us race.
So ill sign out saying good luck to the future and i hope you have a good retirment fund....
in the famous words of meatloaf,,,YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH
It seems that you are the only person with the problem, creating all the hassles. You are trying to prevent the inevitable. Cars are changing with new better ideas. And if you not gonna let people race some1 else will steep up and take you place who will let us race.
So ill sign out saying good luck to the future and i hope you have a good retirment fund....
in the famous words of meatloaf,,,YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTHwe do alot of things we dont need to do, but we do them cause we wanna,we all love the sound of a turbo / supercharger or v8 but we dont need to be creating 10 second drag cars out of winch challenge trucks
if we wanna start restricting winch challenge trucks i dont think motors are the way to do it, restrict winches, they are by far the biggest advantage, lets face it, i could build a 700hp 6litre N/A if i wanna and that would be ok within the rules, we need to make the cars safer and actully start checking the safety equipment,
oh yea i already got a 10 sec street car so im not trying to make my truck do the same thing
yes i agree 100 % that the safety needs to be looked at more, thats the biggest priority of all! after all the trucks are faster, winch hills more extreme, not to mention how close the spectators are to the events.
I was looking more to the future of the sport not just in the next year or right now.
Yes your correct in saying the winches are more advantage in many cases but not all, this comes down to the stage.
It may be the case that if you do not start limiting it in some respect within the next few years it will be out of the average guys budget to even start competing.
I dont have the answer on a solution but this is why we are on this forum posting opinions and suggestions.
I was looking more to the future of the sport not just in the next year or right now.
Yes your correct in saying the winches are more advantage in many cases but not all, this comes down to the stage.
It may be the case that if you do not start limiting it in some respect within the next few years it will be out of the average guys budget to even start competing.
I dont have the answer on a solution but this is why we are on this forum posting opinions and suggestions.
+++++NOW ON FACEBOOK++++++
www.superiorengineering.com.au
Largest 4x4 online superstore
SPONSOR OF TOUGH TRACKS
DGR RACE TEAM
JOOMBIE RACING
AMADA XTREME RACE TEAM
MAYBELINE RACING
MMM RACING
www.superiorengineering.com.au
Largest 4x4 online superstore
SPONSOR OF TOUGH TRACKS
DGR RACE TEAM
JOOMBIE RACING
AMADA XTREME RACE TEAM
MAYBELINE RACING
MMM RACING
Good luck finding someone that can handle running these events for more than a couple of years. Many have tried and failed. Dave has been here longer than most. And i think he will be here for a lot longer yet.ashnbowiev8 wrote:I say good luck to you dave, i mean how well is your production class going so far. round 1 been postponed twice is it. Well it seems the people you are trying to please dont actually exist so maybe you should look into pleasing the people that are out there racing now.
It seems that you are the only person with the problem, creating all the hassles. You are trying to prevent the inevitable. Cars are changing with new better ideas. And if you not gonna let people race some1 else will steep up and take you place who will let us race.
So ill sign out saying good luck to the future and i hope you have a good retirment fund....
Bowie.
Too right.... he has lasted longer than any of the competitors in his events have.RUFF wrote:Good luck finding someone that can handle running these events for more than a couple of years. Many have tried and failed. Dave has been here longer than most. And i think he will be here for a lot longer yet.ashnbowiev8 wrote:I say good luck to you dave, i mean how well is your production class going so far. round 1 been postponed twice is it. Well it seems the people you are trying to please dont actually exist so maybe you should look into pleasing the people that are out there racing now.
It seems that you are the only person with the problem, creating all the hassles. You are trying to prevent the inevitable. Cars are changing with new better ideas. And if you not gonna let people race some1 else will steep up and take you place who will let us race.
So ill sign out saying good luck to the future and i hope you have a good retirment fund....
Bowie.
Keep up the good work Dave
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Hey dave.
I'm not here to pick on you or call you names... but just an opinion from a spectator.
I think it is great that you are thinking ahead to the future and trying to protect our sport... after all if were not out there competing we all wish we were!
You mention the cost of the sport which I take is a very valid point... more motor means more suspension to take the speed and more more more more.... but that is what the spectators LOVE!
I mean if your trying to get money into the sport thus competitors why not go about it a little different.
As a spectator it is the big loud trucks that we love to watch.
The Masons', MADICA and the Swaffies... the noise those cars make and the way they perform is exciting and you know that many of these guys are there for the Win and therefore they have crowds following them.
I also know that your event is based on self recovery and it is an important part of the competition. However I honestly believe as a spectator that there should be, for the most part, an honest chance that someone can drive your winch hills. In fact I reckon about 20% of the field should be able to give the hills a real crack to make it an exciting spectator event... this is where the money is for future competitors.
Getting companys involved with your sport. Making it the must watch event.
I don't think it would be a crying shame for a single spectator if a competitor drove well and only had to winch once or twice the whole event... I'd say they'd have the crowds.
Even to the point where you could provide wash down facilitys for competitors wishing to keep their cars neat between stages.
Pre and post event display of vehicles where kids can get their photo taken with their heros and fav comp trucks.........
The Americans do such a good job of marketing themselves and this directly turns into sponsership dollars....
Wow that turned into a little rant so my appologies... but I really think that if we honestly want the sport to grow you need to feed it with recognition in the mainstream community... which will be done with spectators and sponsership...
Thus.... leave the monsters alone.... it's where everyone aspires to be.... and they don't really win EVERY time anyway...
Posters.... did I mention posters........... MADICA on kids bedroom walls.....
I'm not here to pick on you or call you names... but just an opinion from a spectator.
I think it is great that you are thinking ahead to the future and trying to protect our sport... after all if were not out there competing we all wish we were!
You mention the cost of the sport which I take is a very valid point... more motor means more suspension to take the speed and more more more more.... but that is what the spectators LOVE!
I mean if your trying to get money into the sport thus competitors why not go about it a little different.
As a spectator it is the big loud trucks that we love to watch.
The Masons', MADICA and the Swaffies... the noise those cars make and the way they perform is exciting and you know that many of these guys are there for the Win and therefore they have crowds following them.
I also know that your event is based on self recovery and it is an important part of the competition. However I honestly believe as a spectator that there should be, for the most part, an honest chance that someone can drive your winch hills. In fact I reckon about 20% of the field should be able to give the hills a real crack to make it an exciting spectator event... this is where the money is for future competitors.
Getting companys involved with your sport. Making it the must watch event.
I don't think it would be a crying shame for a single spectator if a competitor drove well and only had to winch once or twice the whole event... I'd say they'd have the crowds.
Even to the point where you could provide wash down facilitys for competitors wishing to keep their cars neat between stages.
Pre and post event display of vehicles where kids can get their photo taken with their heros and fav comp trucks.........
The Americans do such a good job of marketing themselves and this directly turns into sponsership dollars....
Wow that turned into a little rant so my appologies... but I really think that if we honestly want the sport to grow you need to feed it with recognition in the mainstream community... which will be done with spectators and sponsership...
Thus.... leave the monsters alone.... it's where everyone aspires to be.... and they don't really win EVERY time anyway...
Posters.... did I mention posters........... MADICA on kids bedroom walls.....
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i have a poster of MADICA on my wall ha ha ha, i heard greg and griffo have posters of the NORTRANS truck purging gas on their wall,
alot of daves event comes down to luck, i dont care how well you prep a truck when it comes down to it anything can happen on the day,
a winch challenge where anyone can work on it when ever, and cars could be washed and stuff like that would be unreal, because it would come down to the best winch team, not luck,
the crowd love action and carnage, you dont have to wreck you truck to drive a hill and the crowd love it, and you dont need a expencive car to do it,(i remember a qld winch challenge H@MMER was the only one to drive a hill)which was a basic truck with a good driver,
alot of daves event comes down to luck, i dont care how well you prep a truck when it comes down to it anything can happen on the day,
a winch challenge where anyone can work on it when ever, and cars could be washed and stuff like that would be unreal, because it would come down to the best winch team, not luck,
the crowd love action and carnage, you dont have to wreck you truck to drive a hill and the crowd love it, and you dont need a expencive car to do it,(i remember a qld winch challenge H@MMER was the only one to drive a hill)which was a basic truck with a good driver,
Wanker is about the only word I could understand in the whole paragraph as well. Have another shot at writing your paragraph ratbagpatrol. Everyone is entitled to share their opinion/ideas, but do it in an adult fashion and in english with grammer!!!!Kirby wrote:Gee calling him a wankers a bit harsh. Its his comp he runs it , he makes the rules. Its not as if he is saying you cant compete at all.
Digsy, Agree 100%, I was trying to make a similar point in my post, but i think yours says it better. As an organiser of an event, Dave has to protect his income, which directly means pleasing spectators, who bring $$$, sponsorship, and awareness.
Keep the development of the vehicles ongoing, that is what i lkove most about spectating, just update the safety rules as vehicles become quicker etc
PAUL
Digsy, you have some very valid ideas there, and ones that I know have been discussed by organisers and sponsors for many years.
But if you look at it from a company/industry sponsorship point of view, our sport does not really offer alot of value for advertising dollars which would enable us to produce posters and promo gear etc.
The 4wd industry in Oz, especially the competition industry is very very small compared to the likes of the US, our population difference alone doesn't help. To attract major company sponsorship in Oz competitors would have to be using what is commonly sold to the general public, shocks, springs, winches etc. I don't deny that coilovers and by-pass shocks are brilliant bits of equipment, but they are not what the industry in general sells. (I am lucky to even sell a set of Simex tires here in Tamworth). Warn lost interest in sponsorship when we developed our winches way beyond what they make on mass. Even though our trucks have taken huge leaps in development over the last few years, our sponsorship and exposure (such as in 4wd mags) has actually gone backwards.
Keep in mind the most successful form of motorsport in Oz is V8 touring cars, and this catagory is one of the most highly regulated level playing fields there is. Sure its an EXPENSIVE level playing field, but it attracts crowds and sponsorship and thats what its all about if you want to increase our profile. If Ford or Holden is suddenly seen to have an edge, they are very quickly handicapped to keep that level playing field.
Phil
But if you look at it from a company/industry sponsorship point of view, our sport does not really offer alot of value for advertising dollars which would enable us to produce posters and promo gear etc.
The 4wd industry in Oz, especially the competition industry is very very small compared to the likes of the US, our population difference alone doesn't help. To attract major company sponsorship in Oz competitors would have to be using what is commonly sold to the general public, shocks, springs, winches etc. I don't deny that coilovers and by-pass shocks are brilliant bits of equipment, but they are not what the industry in general sells. (I am lucky to even sell a set of Simex tires here in Tamworth). Warn lost interest in sponsorship when we developed our winches way beyond what they make on mass. Even though our trucks have taken huge leaps in development over the last few years, our sponsorship and exposure (such as in 4wd mags) has actually gone backwards.
Keep in mind the most successful form of motorsport in Oz is V8 touring cars, and this catagory is one of the most highly regulated level playing fields there is. Sure its an EXPENSIVE level playing field, but it attracts crowds and sponsorship and thats what its all about if you want to increase our profile. If Ford or Holden is suddenly seen to have an edge, they are very quickly handicapped to keep that level playing field.
Phil
Just Get Out and Do it!
Hi Phil
I understand what you are saying and do agree about current forms of media coverage going almost backwards in recent years with event exposure.
But I really wonder why... These events get spectators... For particular brands like BFG and Toyo etc they could be a great way to advertise their new products and would make great video ad's jammed into 4wd TV and ONE HD.
My opinion is that the event organiser, competitors and patrons sell themselves short...
Look at the motorsport you are talking about... would they turn up to race in King G shirts covered in oil? Would there vehicles have a bunch of sponsers stickers slapped ontop of their ratty paintwork? Most XWC trucks don't even get a wash between events... Which competitors stayed back after XWC rocky and shook hands with spectators and let kids sit in their trucks? Offered photographs.... criky even signitures on their shirts?
I honestly believe that although people say that they've tried to market the sport.... it's only been a mild attempt...
What about adverts in magazines for our sport..... we have to look at the 4wd mags first... Boring bland photos of a either a car photoshopped onto a blank page with writing... or just a couple of photos of parts....
Take a look at motocross, surfing, or almost any other Lifestyle mag for inspiration... you got the likes of Travis Pastrana, Mick Fanning and Robby Gordon that are almost household names... in australia and usa. This is smart marketing on their behalf!
I think 4wding as a whole is long due for a market shake up! and things like ONE HD, 4wd Custom/Extreme Action is going to be the places where things get moving.
Maybe I'm totally wrong and talking crap.
But looking at the way companies like Unit (aussie company) and Rip Curl have attracted the world stage I think that 4wd competiton can reach the imagination and wallets (lets be realistic everything is about selling something) of the young generation that are looking for something to spend it on now that new P plate rules mean no Imports/High HP.
Phil I understand this kind of marketing probably won't affect the sales for a ARB store or the likes... But is companies like ANGER MANAGMENT, etc are throwing money at guys in Motocross, Car racing, StreetBike racing WHY NOT XWC?
I think that we are selling ourselves short.... and I say all of us because as competitiors if we present ourselves better there will be more sponser money... and as spectators the more sponser money the better the event excitement!
Believe me I don't actually know the answers how to get this to happen.... but I honestly believe that with a clear market stratigy and some smart exciting advertising someone like Rob Marshall, MADICA or most of the top 10, could easily be a household name and doing adverts for tires/clothes/helmets on ONE HD (sorry about the one HD plug, just I think it's the only free to air sports only channel at the moment?)
Anyway... I think it'll take a smart innovative company to make the first move and then others will follow....
Keep an eye out for exciting new ad's in 4wd mags in aus and then hopefully we can all watch the landslide...
I understand what you are saying and do agree about current forms of media coverage going almost backwards in recent years with event exposure.
But I really wonder why... These events get spectators... For particular brands like BFG and Toyo etc they could be a great way to advertise their new products and would make great video ad's jammed into 4wd TV and ONE HD.
My opinion is that the event organiser, competitors and patrons sell themselves short...
Look at the motorsport you are talking about... would they turn up to race in King G shirts covered in oil? Would there vehicles have a bunch of sponsers stickers slapped ontop of their ratty paintwork? Most XWC trucks don't even get a wash between events... Which competitors stayed back after XWC rocky and shook hands with spectators and let kids sit in their trucks? Offered photographs.... criky even signitures on their shirts?
I honestly believe that although people say that they've tried to market the sport.... it's only been a mild attempt...
What about adverts in magazines for our sport..... we have to look at the 4wd mags first... Boring bland photos of a either a car photoshopped onto a blank page with writing... or just a couple of photos of parts....
Take a look at motocross, surfing, or almost any other Lifestyle mag for inspiration... you got the likes of Travis Pastrana, Mick Fanning and Robby Gordon that are almost household names... in australia and usa. This is smart marketing on their behalf!
I think 4wding as a whole is long due for a market shake up! and things like ONE HD, 4wd Custom/Extreme Action is going to be the places where things get moving.
Maybe I'm totally wrong and talking crap.
But looking at the way companies like Unit (aussie company) and Rip Curl have attracted the world stage I think that 4wd competiton can reach the imagination and wallets (lets be realistic everything is about selling something) of the young generation that are looking for something to spend it on now that new P plate rules mean no Imports/High HP.
Phil I understand this kind of marketing probably won't affect the sales for a ARB store or the likes... But is companies like ANGER MANAGMENT, etc are throwing money at guys in Motocross, Car racing, StreetBike racing WHY NOT XWC?
I think that we are selling ourselves short.... and I say all of us because as competitiors if we present ourselves better there will be more sponser money... and as spectators the more sponser money the better the event excitement!
Believe me I don't actually know the answers how to get this to happen.... but I honestly believe that with a clear market stratigy and some smart exciting advertising someone like Rob Marshall, MADICA or most of the top 10, could easily be a household name and doing adverts for tires/clothes/helmets on ONE HD (sorry about the one HD plug, just I think it's the only free to air sports only channel at the moment?)
Anyway... I think it'll take a smart innovative company to make the first move and then others will follow....
Keep an eye out for exciting new ad's in 4wd mags in aus and then hopefully we can all watch the landslide...
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digsy you are %100 correct, after being to a recent speedway event in sydney i got shirts posters and keyrings for my truck and team nortrans made, which unfortunately werent ready for rocky, but were going to be handed out for spectators,
i wont go back to another XWC event but will have all these things at finke where the crown and media is huge
i wont go back to another XWC event but will have all these things at finke where the crown and media is huge
Digsy ...You hit the nail right on the head the sport needs better exposure and better marketing . How can a buisness want to sponsor any of the vehicles that are in the comps if there is stuff all exposure , no dvd , and when you do well in an event you hardly even get a mention , these things are the things that should be addressed to keep the sport alive . Phill your a very knowlageable man and a sucsessfull businessman but you must admit if the sport had the right exposure as a sponsors point of view you would get better bang for your buck so to speak.But in saying that if you were to say sponsor someone with off the shelf new OME Nitrochargers which are a good product and you can do well competing on them, as we have in the past , Would you rather give them to someone with a supercharged V8 eye catching dirt throwing comp rig or would you give them to the plain jane Near Stock Quiet Lada Niva, You yourself know the likes of everyone knows dave in the old farm truck because its a bloody cool truck and Sound Great Too . I understand all marketing comes at a cost but i think these things are the critical things that we need to keep this sport alive.
x2sswaffie wrote:Digsy ...You hit the nail right on the head the sport needs better exposure and better marketing . How can a buisness want to sponsor any of the vehicles that are in the comps if there is stuff all exposure , no dvd , and when you do well in an event you hardly even get a mention , these things are the things that should be addressed to keep the sport alive . Phill your a very knowlageable man and a sucsessfull businessman but you must admit if the sport had the right exposure as a sponsors point of view you would get better bang for your buck so to speak.But in saying that if you were to say sponsor someone with off the shelf new OME Nitrochargers which are a good product and you can do well competing on them, as we have in the past , Would you rather give them to someone with a supercharged V8 eye catching dirt throwing comp rig or would you give them to the plain jane Near Stock Quiet Lada Niva, You yourself know the likes of everyone knows dave in the old farm truck because its a bloody cool truck and Sound Great Too . I understand all marketing comes at a cost but i think these things are the critical things that we need to keep this sport alive.
if it aint forced it wont go
Digsy, you are certainly right, we are all guilty of not presenting our trucks in the best of light. In years gone by, love or hate him, I would have to say Manni Kafantaris probably came the closest to achieving what you are saying. But keeping our trucks in top top condition between events is a huge cost unless you own a panel shop.
And this sort of steers us once again in the direction of the whole arguement. Perhaps we are spending our hard earned cash in the wrong areas. Instead of spending $20,000 on an engine and $10,000 on a winch, perhaps a big chunk of that should be spent on truck maintenance and presentation and promotion with the public (ask the Off Road Racing Boys about this one). The more we did this then perhaps the more sponsorship and public following we might achieve. There is not enough money to be made in an event for an organiser to do this alone, its up to each competitor.
Remember Digsy we are still a small minority sport. We even struggle to have a regular 4x4 and camping show in Sydney. But you are certainly on the right track. All the more reason to change our focus perhaps on how we go about this sport.
Phil
And this sort of steers us once again in the direction of the whole arguement. Perhaps we are spending our hard earned cash in the wrong areas. Instead of spending $20,000 on an engine and $10,000 on a winch, perhaps a big chunk of that should be spent on truck maintenance and presentation and promotion with the public (ask the Off Road Racing Boys about this one). The more we did this then perhaps the more sponsorship and public following we might achieve. There is not enough money to be made in an event for an organiser to do this alone, its up to each competitor.
Remember Digsy we are still a small minority sport. We even struggle to have a regular 4x4 and camping show in Sydney. But you are certainly on the right track. All the more reason to change our focus perhaps on how we go about this sport.
Phil
Just Get Out and Do it!
Unfortunately for the competitors, making the truck clean and look good doesnt nett race wins.PSwindale wrote:
Instead of spending $20,000 on an engine and $10,000 on a winch, perhaps a big chunk of that should be spent on truck maintenance and presentation and promotion with the public (ask the Off Road Racing Boys about this one).
Phil
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