2010 & Beyond Update of XWC, EFS XI & EFS TEAMS

[biggsy]

I want to compete in the future in winch challenge... And a few changes make it more appealing for me. But I still like watching the number 1 guy's and girl's going for it with there custom trucks

[XTREME MMM]

I want to compete in the future in winch challenge... And a few changes make it more appealing for me. But I still like watching the number 1 guy's and girl's going for it with there custom trucks

They can still compete but as of 2011 some could have a handicap.


Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport

[biggsy]

I want to compete in the future in winch challenge... And a few changes make it more appealing for me. But I still like watching the number 1 guy's and girl's going for it with there custom trucks

They can still compete but as of 2011 some could have a handicap.


Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport

Yeah I understand that, I know of a 3lt hilux (now V8) with only a live axle swap and leaf in the back and non giggled pin winch that has had alot of success.. It comes down to the driver.. Unfortunately people don't like change but change can be a good. Im looking forward to the day I can compete.. At the end of the day I feel it come down to who is behind the wheel of the car who win.

[HeathGQ]

I've removed the attempted post by Ratbagpatrol from page 2, in case anyone is wondering whats going on.

[swb_ute]

I've removed the attempted post by Ratbagpatrol from page 2, in case anyone is wondering whats going on.

Thank god for that I thought I had lost the ability to read.

[pigletracing]

I want to compete in the future in winch challenge... And a few changes make it more appealing for me. But I still like watching the number 1 guy's and girl's going for it with there custom trucks

They can still compete but as of 2011 some could have a handicap.


Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport

Yeah I understand that, I know of a 3lt hilux (now V8) with only a live axle swap and leaf in the back and non giggled pin winch that has had alot of success.. It comes down to the driver.. Unfortunately people don't like change but change can be a good. Im looking forward to the day I can compete.. At the end of the day I feel it come down to who is behind the wheel of the car who win.

the way POPPY drove that 3lt the only mod he really needed to do was to get a really good sterio & a recording of a V8.... as his position was always at pointy end even with the 3lt

[big willy]

I agree with a lot of coments being made and have also competed in many events succesfully[tufftracks. superior allterrain. qld winch challenge, xwc and eightday, cliffhanger, coopers, sss gps and winch challenge] I myself run supercharged nissan 5.7l i chose this package as it was cheap bang for buck combo costing all up about 15000$ compare that to a high powered diesel. At cliffhanger i was dusted by naturally asperated v8s and turbo 4.2 nissans the simple thing is you can get anything to go like a shower of shit if you put enough money into it . i agree that everyone has to start somewhere but all those people you tried to give a start this year so far havent turned up so why penalise some of our spectators favourite competitors I have never agreed with daves rules on spare parts and people helping becouse i have found that teams with big budgets and lots of spares are always only to happy to share parts,knowledge, and help lower budget teams . everyone seems to keep talking about spectators and sponsors at the end of day 95% of them are friends and family of competitors . i have just returnd from rnd two of sss winchchallenge wich is a great event allround, i don,t always agree with sterlo but he is very approachable and tries to make the event fair for everyone and does so not do so by penalties but by track set up as lance has done in the past with QLD winch challenge so all those poeple out there that are worried thier car isnt as fast enough or is going to be penalised for being to fast open your eyes the entry fee is cheaper and there is prize money for each stage win.so all those poeple that are concerned why not try one of sterlo,s events.

[1MadEngineer]

make the event fair for everyone and does so not do so by penalties but by track set up as lance has done in the past with QLD winch challenge .

MMM is a master at making HARD technical tracks AND to be honest he has gone soft on the current group of winch challenge trucks. Its sad to say but more than half the field are VERY ordinary, and would struggle like $hit in anything even remotely difficult (if you couldn't use a winch and drag there sorry arses over stuff!) MMM needs to give the all a big cup of harden the F##K up and get back to making courses like the good old days! where maybe 1 or 2 out of a 15 car field would actually complete the course. ATM half the cars are DRIVING the complete course, and some rarely have to winch.....


C'MON DAVE (MMM) get mean! Some nice hard tracks! that are almost undriveable, plenty of pucker factor and some battery bursting vertical winching. Then if you don't like actual 4WD'ing then you can go class8 racing with your mate kent!

[tufenuf]

MMM is a master at making HARD technical tracks AND to be honest he has gone soft on the current group of winch challenge trucks. Its sad to say but more than half the field are VERY ordinary, and would struggle like $hit in anything even remotely difficult (if you couldn't use a winch and drag there sorry arses over stuff!) MMM needs to give the all a big cup of harden the F##K up and get back to making courses like the good old days! where maybe 1 or 2 out of a 15 car field would actually complete the course. ATM half the cars are DRIVING the complete course, and some rarely have to winch.....

yea that would be awsome, then we could restrict motors cause the sport is costing so much, but happily destroy winches and panels and cars so 2 people could finsh like the good old days, you should post up a picture of the truck you compete in, to show the very ordinary half of the field what a real winch challenge team looks like

[1MadEngineer]

but happily destroy winches and panels and cars so 2 people could finsh like the good old days,

why would you destroy everything? unless you drive like a twit and don't use your brain.....

Its way more enjoyable to watch a 'basic' rig driven well and be competitive than an idiot behind the wheel thats rolls and breaks his $hit and can't even finish the event. I have much more respect for competitiors that drive smart and are consistantly competitive. ATM there are a few drivers/teams that are exceptionally good and could just about win regardless of any vehicle they competed in, so restricting performance in one area would mean little to there results.

[tufenuf]

Its way more enjoyable to watch a 'basic' rig driven well and be competitive than an idiot behind the wheel thats rolls and breaks his $hit and can't even finish the event. I have much more respect for competitiors that drive smart and are consistantly competitive. ATM there are a few drivers/teams that are exceptionally good and could just about win regardless of any vehicle they competed in, so restricting performance in one area would mean little to there results.

why would only 2 cars finish out of a field of 15 if they werent breaking stuff, there is no team out there that could win regardless of what car they drive, you would know that if you did more than sat behind a computer, and because someone rolls or braks his car he is a idiot?????? i have been in about a dozen of daves events and others and have only rolled once, does that make me a idiot that cant drive,

[XTREME MMM]

Its way more enjoyable to watch a 'basic' rig driven well and be competitive than an idiot behind the wheel thats rolls and breaks his $hit and can't even finish the event. I have much more respect for competitiors that drive smart and are consistantly competitive. ATM there are a few drivers/teams that are exceptionally good and could just about win regardless of any vehicle they competed in, so restricting performance in one area would mean little to there results.

why would only 2 cars finish out of a field of 15 if they werent breaking stuff, there is no team out there that could win regardless of what car they drive, you would know that if you did more than sat behind a computer, and because someone rolls or braks his car he is a idiot?????? i have been in about a dozen of daves events and others and have only rolled once, does that make me a idiot that cant drive,

Kent can I say that you would be one of the better drivers out there that will have a go at anything and are a crowd pleaser who will not back off (even when he should) when the need be there.

You will also do anything to keep going during an event when most would have sat back and called it a day.

All the best in your new venture and it would be great to see you back again at an Xtreme event.

Cheers
David

[1MadEngineer]

you would know that if you did more than sat behind a computer

thats funny!

i have been in about a dozen of daves events

which ones? I can't seem to find your name in any of the podium results!

[tufenuf]

which ones? I can't seem to find your name in any of the podium results!

how many did i say i had won??? none, but what your saying is wrong plain and simple, there isnt one team out there who could win regardless of what car they were in,

oh yea i pretty sure i drove a allterrain challenge that you navi'd in a while ago, so i been racing for a little while now, even for a young fella who cant drive

[tufenuf]

Kent can I say that you would be one of the better drivers out there that will have a go at anything and are a crowd pleaser who will not back off (even when he should) when the need be there.

You will also do anything to keep going during an event when most would have sat back and called it a day.

All the best in your new venture and it would be great to see you back again at an Xtreme event.

Cheers
David

i still have feelings for you dave but i cant keep doing this, you keep tearing my heart out over and over, all i want is to be happy,

i have met someone else her name is FINKE DESERT RACE she is unbelievable, its something i have to do i hope you understand, its nothing personal i just think that we werent working, something just clicked inside me when i first saw her, i hope you understand,

CLASS 8 BITCHES HA HAHA

[big willy]

to one mad engineer your missing the point big long winch hills are boring as shit for everyone and verticle hills you only need to be unlucky once with a cut rope or damaged brake shaft and its goodbye to your truck and for a small budget race teams that would be hard to recover from

[1MadEngineer]

you only need to be unlucky once with a cut rope or damaged brake shaft and its goodbye to your truck and for a small budget race teams that would be hard to recover from

But a dinted truck is better than someone dead from hitting a tree or even a group of spectators in a 3ton nissan at 100+kph. why are guys so scared of flopping a comp vehicle on its side at low speed (and god forbid - scratching a panel ) compared to losing control and slamming a tree at light speed. Sooner or later someone is going to hit something immoveable at warp speed and will seriously injure the driver/navvy.

I never said you can't get a bit of pace up in short course style events, but purely stated the difficulty of the obstacles needs to be increased. There is nothing more spectacular IMO then someone up it for the rent, launching through BIG logs and rocks then crawling a seemingly impossible offcamber, then to be faced with a twisted-up uphill turn and short sharp steep climb/winch.

Years ago, the winch challenge trucks were considered "cutting edge" now they are almost a joke (sorry to say). Especially when compared strength wise to the other disciplines eg: less than half the field have aftermarket CV's and axles, and most of them still think a GU diff is unbrakeable! sure there are a few guys starting to run top shelf stuff, but you could count them on 1 hand. Most of the field are still running factory suspension geometry? (as kent will attest) the top offroad race guys are ALL about well engineered suspension dynamics. Winch challenge will head that way, but slowly.

[ashnbowiev8]

hey dave,

as for the problem with spectators and sponsors. well as said before the sponsors want to get somthing out of the deal or they wouldnt sign up for it. well i think it would be a good idea to remove the rule of a compound were compeditors cant see the track and spectators cant see the vehicles. We usually take a crowd with us but dont get to see them unless they come out of the way to the compound. Aswell as being a competition it is also a family weekend away, It would be nice to actually see them.... so be it that its an advantage to see the track before the race but if it was even on everyone it wouldnt matter.

Also sponsors would get more time on show if the trucks are with the crowd. spectators would be able to ask us questions etc. just a bit of food for thaught as u are looking to the future of the sport....

[NICK]

[ 1 or 2 out of a 15 car field would actually complete the course.

so based on your statics the winch challenge consists of 2 drivers and 13 idiots?


NICK

[NICK]

But a dinted truck is better than someone dead from hitting a tree or even a group of spectators in a 3ton nissan at 100+kph.

Your talking about 2 different types of motor sport, the coarse are designed to be fast and driveable at speed. I went to a drift comp on the weekend, and am 100% certain i did'nt see inky talic there in his racing truck, i know the truck could drift and have seen it sliding but it clearly is'nt built for that kind of motorsport competition. Yes someone maybe hurt, yes the bunting maybe to close to spectators, yes a driver could be killed but you need to look at the style of 4x4ing and not all of it is about driver skill and finesse. Some off it, like you said is about the idiot behind the wheel wiling to go that bit further than the last bloke, that bit faster but also know the limitations of the truck. I dont think you can comment on driver's style when this is what separates the field makes winners or losers.

NICK

[zooki]

you only need to be unlucky once with a cut rope or damaged brake shaft and its goodbye to your truck and for a small budget race teams that would be hard to recover from

But a dinted truck is better than someone dead from hitting a tree or even a group of spectators in a 3ton nissan at 100+kph. why are guys so scared of flopping a comp vehicle on its side at low speed (and god forbid - scratching a panel ) compared to losing control and slamming a tree at light speed. Sooner or later someone is going to hit something immoveable at warp speed and will seriously injure the driver/navvy.

I never said you can't get a bit of pace up in short course style events, but purely stated the difficulty of the obstacles needs to be increased. There is nothing more spectacular IMO then someone up it for the rent, launching through BIG logs and rocks then crawling a seemingly impossible offcamber, then to be faced with a twisted-up uphill turn and short sharp steep climb/winch.

Years ago, the winch challenge trucks were considered "cutting edge" now they are almost a joke (sorry to say). Especially when compared strength wise to the other disciplines eg: less than half the field have aftermarket CV's and axles, and most of them still think a GU diff is unbrakeable! sure there are a few guys starting to run top shelf stuff, but you could count them on 1 hand. Most of the field are still running factory suspension geometry? (as kent will attest) the top offroad race guys are ALL about well engineered suspension dynamics. Winch challenge will head that way, but slowly. We are currently building a new truck specifically aimed at this, loosely based around a US PRO4 come trophy truck.

Even the development in winch's has slowed. I have just about got all the parts for our new one, and I am looking forward to using some real hydraulic power! The pump alone can draw upto 40kw from the crank and has to be direct coupled to the 'tweaked' 2JZGTE. I cant wait to come play winch challenge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cant remember seeing you at any winch events in the last 2 Years Greg, and everyone is right, you are missing the point of the event, its nothing like the 4wd Lawn Bowls you get into

[bru21]

Kent can I say that you would be one of the better drivers out there that will have a go at anything and are a crowd pleaser who will not back off (even when he should) when the need be there.

You will also do anything to keep going during an event when most would have sat back and called it a day.

All the best in your new venture and it would be great to see you back again at an Xtreme event.

Cheers
David

i still have feelings for you dave but i cant keep doing this, you keep tearing my heart out over and over, all i want is to be happy,

i have met someone else her name is FINKE DESERT RACE she is unbelievable, its something i have to do i hope you understand, its nothing personal i just think that we werent working, something just clicked inside me when i first saw her, i hope you understand,

CLASS 8 BITCHES HA HAHA

CLASS 1 BITCHES.

see you at finke!

[pig 83]

hey 1 mad engineer your are an idiot wake up to yourself you input is useless and un informative and nothing to do with this post so go build your flash truck and leave your useless comments to yourself cheers

[big willy]

one mad engineer im sure i read last year that you would be doing winch challenge this year but i spose due to unforseen cicumstances you couldn,t make it so i look forward to next year once agian to see some real talent and how it should be done i hope for your sake you are as good as you think you are becouse there is one thing you have yet to learn and that is respect for your fellow competitors i also wonder if the people at the bottom of your posts are happy with how they are being represented

[SuperiorEngineering]

hey dave,

as for the problem with spectators and sponsors. well as said before the sponsors want to get somthing out of the deal or they wouldnt sign up for it. well i think it would be a good idea to remove the rule of a compound were compeditors cant see the track and spectators cant see the vehicles. We usually take a crowd with us but dont get to see them unless they come out of the way to the compound. Aswell as being a competition it is also a family weekend away, It would be nice to actually see them.... so be it that its an advantage to see the track before the race but if it was even on everyone it wouldnt matter.

Also sponsors would get more time on show if the trucks are with the crowd. spectators would be able to ask us questions etc. just a bit of food for thaught as u are looking to the future of the sport....

I think ashbowie has a good idea here, from a sponsors point of veiw it would be a great advantage to have the general public to be able to veiw the trucks close and ask questions to the driver and navies of why they use a specific part or why a specific shock or radius arm or what ever is used..
I am sure many kids and adults have been to winch challenges and been dissapointed in the way they could not see or spend a little more time veiwing a comp truck and meeting the team..
After all you cant see much when a truck goes past at reasonable pace covered in mud etc.
It would be a good idea for consideration even though we are off topic a bit..

[NICK]

hey dave,

as for the problem with spectators and sponsors. well as said before the sponsors want to get somthing out of the deal or they wouldnt sign up for it. well i think it would be a good idea to remove the rule of a compound were compeditors cant see the track and spectators cant see the vehicles. We usually take a crowd with us but dont get to see them unless they come out of the way to the compound. Aswell as being a competition it is also a family weekend away, It would be nice to actually see them.... so be it that its an advantage to see the track before the race but if it was even on everyone it wouldnt matter.

Also sponsors would get more time on show if the trucks are with the crowd. spectators would be able to ask us questions etc. just a bit of food for thaught as u are looking to the future of the sport....

I think ashbowie has a good idea here, from a sponsors point of veiw it would be a great advantage to have the general public to be able to veiw the trucks close and ask questions to the driver and navies of why they use a specific part or why a specific shock or radius arm or what ever is used..
I am sure many kids and adults have been to winch challenges and been dissapointed in the way they could not see or spend a little more time veiwing a comp truck and meeting the team..
After all you cant see much when a truck goes past at reasonable pace covered in mud etc.
It would be a good idea for consideration even though we are off topic a bit..

i think this is a good idea, although some drivers seem to be alittle arrogant when it comes to passing out information. Fair enough though, they put alot of time and effort into building there truck and the one thing they have that someone else doesnt may give them the upper edge.

I know personally, i learnt alot from looking at photos on the internet and thinking it through in my head as to why something may or may not work, i use to have discussions with Mick and Brian at superior some years ago and learn't some from them as im sure they learn't stuff from me, useless stuff, but still stuff. anyone..... you could make it optional for the drivers, i know i would opt in, even just for the networking.

NICK

[Breaker Brother]

hey dave,

as for the problem with spectators and sponsors. well as said before the sponsors want to get somthing out of the deal or they wouldnt sign up for it. well i think it would be a good idea to remove the rule of a compound were compeditors cant see the track and spectators cant see the vehicles. We usually take a crowd with us but dont get to see them unless they come out of the way to the compound. Aswell as being a competition it is also a family weekend away, It would be nice to actually see them.... so be it that its an advantage to see the track before the race but if it was even on everyone it wouldnt matter.

Also sponsors would get more time on show if the trucks are with the crowd. spectators would be able to ask us questions etc. just a bit of food for thaught as u are looking to the future of the sport....

I think ashbowie has a good idea here, from a sponsors point of veiw it would be a great advantage to have the general public to be able to veiw the trucks close and ask questions to the driver and navies of why they use a specific part or why a specific shock or radius arm or what ever is used..
I am sure many kids and adults have been to winch challenges and been dissapointed in the way they could not see or spend a little more time veiwing a comp truck and meeting the team..
After all you cant see much when a truck goes past at reasonable pace covered in mud etc.
It would be a good idea for consideration even though we are off topic a bit..

I've been around the fringes of 4WD type events of various natures for a while and have recently been to my first Cliffhanger, Hobzee and Rudi have it just right, mixed camping with noise rules, and designated spectator positions on each stage (if applicable). I found pretty much everyone to be perfectly willing to talk about thier trucks within reason, by far the best format of any event I've been to. Unlike TTC which I won't attend again

But in regards to The rules, I agree that something needs to be done in reagrds to limiting these trucks, hell there was a 8/71 blown 502 in a GU this year @ cliffhanger!!
But I think the blanket banning of certain engine combinations is not the way to go, as a few guys have said, a blower on an LS1, or Holden 5.0l is an easy and heap way of making good power.
If you have enough money you will always be able to build bullshit engines, this years Summernats results are a prime example

BEST 6 CYLINDER - FORCED INDUCTION
3rd 714hp 2006 FORD TYPHOON F6 FPV SEDAN
2nd 1014hp 1989 NISSAN SKYLINE GTR COUPE
Winner 1114hp 1992 NISSAN SKYLINE COUPE

BEST V6 - FORCED INDUCTION
Winner 1117hp 1972 HOLDEN TORANA COUPE

BEST SMALL BLOCK V8 - NATURALLY ASPIRATED
2nd 1191hp 1987 FORD XE SEDAN
Winner 1246 hp HOLDEN COMMODORE SS UTE

Now Dave, all those engine combinations are and will be legal under production class rules, hell some of the GQ's even had RB engines in them from factory!!

Myself I've got a Lux which I was planning on competing with next year and after having rides in a few of the "built" turbo diesels over the last year, there's a distinct disadvantage in not being able to put a little blower on it, I don't have 30+ grand to spend on a Diesel, I don't have 30+ grand to spend on a hypo NA LS1, but I can afford a few k extra to put a small whipple on my 5.0l.

Should I be thinking?
dump the lux body, & Chassis. buy a zook chassis and keep my running gear and dump a Turbo SR20 in it, 400hp, 1/3 the weight of a GU and bullshit fast....

Don't even really need to spend much cash on the SR20, import engines are cheap, bolt on Mods are cheap. Just put a new one in each comp, still cheaper than building a decent engine

Now how is that a "restriction" ?

I think you (Dave) should get together with some of the other Major organisers like SSS and NavRun and hash these rules out together, If you really want our sport to grow there needs to be a Uniform approach across the boards, not the fractured structure we currently have.

[unlimited 1]

He has never said you can not run these motors. he is saying that there will be some kind of handy cap. Why don't people read things properly.

[Breaker Brother]

He has never said you can not run these motors. he is saying that there will be some kind of handy cap. Why don't people read things properly.

I Never said we couldn't run them, my whole point was that if you have the dollars, you can beat the rules, all he's doing in penalising those of us trying to build cheap power & Race on a budget

On another note, I was at a recent club meeting and the topic of excessive/dangerous speeds came up in Cams based off road races, these guys already run tighter engine restrictions then what you are proposing dave.

One of the best and simplest solutions of the problem was to cater the tracks to reduce speeds, F1 did it, Supercars did it at Bathurst with the Chicane on the main straight,

If you make the tracks so that it's useless having huge amounts of horsepower, eventually people will spend money elsewhere. it's simple economics.

[swb_ute]

He has never said you can not run these motors. he is saying that there will be some kind of handy cap. Why don't people read things properly.

I Never said we couldn't run them, my whole point was that if you have the dollars, you can beat the rules, all he's doing in penalising those of us trying to build cheap power & Race on a budget

now who wasn't reading ?

x2 That is the reason i am going with a blower on my ls1 no mods to the motor 10psi = good HP low budget.