2010 Ironman Cliffhanger .. New property, 25 teams already

[Hobzee]

OK everyone, we had a fabulous 2009 year thanks to a hugely competitive field, stacks of preparation and lots of great sponsors and helpers. 2010 promises to be even more exciting.

Ironman 4x4 are yet again the naming rights sponsor - and why not .. this is THE BEST open country 4WD event in Australia, if not THE WORLD.

First of all we are relocating after 5 great years at White Cliffs. We are going to have a Sea Change with a new property just 30 mins out of Cobar, central NSW. This is 3 hours closer to Sydney and the Qld'ers and 1.5 hours closer for the Victorians and bitumen all the way. But despite being closer the region is still outback and the new pad is even larger than what we have had in the past. The terrain is rougher and hillier and covered with heavier trees and wait for it - it has grass. They say it doesn't often have grass but there was plenty of green stuff when we visited the property last week and it looked like a parkland setting. Being rougher terrain it might not lend itself to the speed stages we are used to. No doubt we shall return to Cootawundi in White Cliffs down the track as it is truly unique in its offerings too.

We are going to place more emphasis on the family unit by permitting competitors to sit with family and friend spectators and watch the fun while they wait their turn.

Once again CCDA sanctioned we require every vehicle to comply with "Challenge Class" per CCDA which involves being road registered and has some parameters about extreme mods (but essentially most people comply already).

In 2010 we aren't offering catering so you need to BYO food and cooking. We will however have porta loos throughout camp and showers.

Prize money remains at $30,000.00 cash same as 2009.

And wait for it we are DROPPING the price to $2100 per team, assuming you pay in full on time. Otherwise it's once again $2500. And because we will be asked we shall get it out there now .. the deposit of $500 is not refundable. After the 31st March, the entry fee needs to be paid in full and that may be transferred to another team but it is NOT refundable. This is simply becuase we are going turn people away very soon and your spot could have been filled by someone else.

Now as it stands, we have already received 25 entries from previous entrants and we are only taking 50. So we are half full already. If you have competed in this event before you only have until end of Aug for your exclusive chance to enter. In Sep we open the doors to the public and accept new entrants. So dont stuff about or you will miss out!

Checkout our web site ... www.ironmancliffhanger.com.au

And dont forget to pre-order your 2009 DVD, soon to be released.

[Harb]

whhhhooooooo hhoooooooo

[BARBIE (SNATCH)]

just wondering from a spectators prospective...why is it so expensive.... no catering..... what do we get for our money?????... i am very interested in what other people have to say on this matter....

[Dynamic GQ]

I think the new property sounds amazing, tougher tracks will make for great spectating. How good would it be to have a show & shine in the middle of Cobar? What a great way to give back to the local community & the sponsors.
I have an idea that I would like to hear people's thoughts on.
For the past couple of Years I have been traveling up to Broken Hill for the beginning of the OBC. Due to work commitments I am unable to stay for the entire week, but to be able to see the Show & Shine, the Saturday night creek run & Sunday Prologue is fantastic.
How good would it be it something similar was done with Cliffhanger? That way spectators who may not be able to stay for the entire week could still come up for the weekend.

If vehicles need to be registered for next year where does that leave the crowd pleasing Buggy of "The Bastard Child"?

As for the spectator pricing, personally I think $390 per person is a lot of money to watch a 4wd event. I don't see why it is possible to reduce the competitors entry but not the spectators. There were 18 stages this year of those 18 there were 5 or 6 that had no spectating. So on those figures that's $32.50 per adult per stage, just to camp & spectate. If these prices can't be reduced then they should at least make U16 FREE. After all most of the spectators are competitors families.

[maccasMQ]

bugger, not sure if i will compete in this one then.....

[Britswed]

bugger, not sure if i will compete in this one then.....

WHY???

[maccasMQ]

well the reason why i wanted to compete was because it had the fast creek runs and open paddock stages where u could open it up a bit. Which the victorian based winch challenges dont offer. If this one has rougher terrain u wont be able to do that. What i like about the previous 2 cliffhangers i went to was they were like a safari in a way. Which is wat i would like to do also.

I'll see how it goes tho, may be at CH still next year.

[beretta]

Interesting, change is always good when it comes to the stages and the property etc, but I think you're crazy not offering the catering, that was a big bonus from my point of view, very convenient and a good selling point to try to get family and friends along.

As a competitor I could go back to Cootawundi every year for the next ten years and still have a ball, the fast creek and the walls are my favourite stages. Will you have these at the new property?

[moose]

IMHO ..its set the event back 5 - 10 years !!!!
still same entry fee ... no catering
still same spectator fee ... no catering
dropping the buggy class !! closer to civilisation ..more chance of actually getting other buggy boys to enter !!!


also to come out now & say "we,ve moved sites"
do those that have payed there deposit ,
& dont want the more technical events ,
rather than a speed/tech combination ,
get the opertunity of a refund ???


just my $0.02 worth !!

(i,ll still be there !!)

[Breaker Brother]

IMHO ..its set the event back 5 - 10 years !!!!
still same entry fee ... no catering
still same spectator fee ... no catering
dropping the buggy class !! closer to civilisation ..more chance of actually getting other buggy boys to enter !!!


also to come out now & say "we,ve moved sites"
do those that have payed there deposit ,
& dont want the more technical events ,
rather than a speed/tech combination ,
get the opertunity of a refund ???


just my $0.02 worth !!

Way I see it we were lucky to have Cotawundi this year, and forgive me if I'm wrong but the catered tickets were extra on top, a total of $425 or similar if I remember rightly for Spectators. either way, I'm looking forward to another well run event, Challenging tracks and terrain, hopefully there'll be a spot left for me to enter!

[RangieRacing]

From an South Australian perspective somewhat disappointed, in the change of location, and the need to travel further to the event (yes it will be easier for the Qld, NSW, and Victorias to travel to the event and we in SA are few in numbers).

South Aussies have always preferred the OBC and Cliffhanger as it is cost effective to compete, or attend as a spectator, to events held in Broken Hill.

I understand there may be other reasons we cannot use the current property (due to the owners health and who will be managing the property) but thought there may be other similar sites in the Broken Hill region, especially catering for the creek runs (speed - now don't respond with the comment that the Rangie is a turtle so speed is not important etc.)

Yes, somewhat confused that the spectator package pricing has not changed downward, given the catering is no longer being provided - understand catering may not be possible with the new property due to logistics etc.

This change of location may open up an opportunity for the OBC or for the establishment/creation of another event within the Broken Hill region, incorporating all the features of the OBC and Cliffhanger. An event for fun and the family.

We need to bare in mind the enormous planning and time invested in establishing and running these events and to each of the organisers we thank them for their time and effort. But the event promoters need to listen to the competitors, spectators, and the market to ensure their product is what the market wants. The Cliffhanger was almost there.

Anyway that is my opinion and I wish Rudi and Hobzee all the best as they are great guys and deserve the success of a great event.

Prefer the Cliffhanger but now the OBC is more attactive to South Aussies with the only thing holding us back - price - come on Paul - drop your price, and put your event back on the map, and incorporate more of the Cliffhanger features - such as:

Less transport - look for a property with rocks/winch near Deinien
Support - allow support teams for the competitors
Camping - one camping spot near Viewmont, camp together
Price - drop price to $2500
Days - Bring back to five days or at most six

Cheers

Gary
Rangie Racing [/list]

[Hobzee]

What a pack of sooks ... If you want to bitch why not ring me .. 03 5975 5533.

We have listened to those that talk to us and have implemented many of those ideas or explained why we wont.. Can't get better than that.

Straight up we even thought of cutting spectators right out. But we understand there are die hard family followers and with out them the hand brake is applied along wth "passion rations" and some dudes cant even build trucks. So then we planned on a big rise in spactator entry fee just to thin it right down to the die hards. But we did listen to you guys and left it as it was and are going to bring another swag of paid transport marshals in to manage convoys and punctual start times better etc.

In 2010 I am putting more effort into running an even better and smoother event with even greater effort into the racing itself with longer harder and more exciting stages with more emphasis on the rules and scoring and I wont have the distractions of catering and the trimmings that go along with it. This year that aspect took up about 50% of my event preparations and behind the scene headaches. (But dont get the wrong idea - Kevvy did a fabulous job and the food was terrific thanks to these efforts) Last year it was closer to 80% headaches with camp/catering issues. This mix is all wrong and we need 80% on racing.

Those who entered before the announcement were asked if they wanted out and they all stayed.

Re the buggies - we have had a buggy class for 2 years with heaps of promissed entries but just Rob every year. He's great and we love the buggy but in the end we have to ask is it worth a class along with exceptions to CCDA class rules for just 1 entry. I have had new interest from a group of buggies (local and overseas) and I said if they get me 5 entries in before entries are full (got to be quick) then we shall re-introduce the class. Let's see the colour of their money or just shut up. Simple!

Since the announcement we received another 10 entries so it is filling fast. Only about 15 to 20 spots left before we go to standby lists.

[Hobzee]

This change of location may open up an opportunity for the OBC or for the establishment/creation of another event within the Broken Hill region, incorporating all the features of the OBC and Cliffhanger. An event for fun and the family.

[/list]

How cool would that be - let me be the first to enter. I've been saying for ages we need more open country events. I have a car with just one open country event I can race in, being OBC.

Maybe one day I will get Rudes to run Cliffhanger on his own so I can enter it.

[maccasMQ]

with info comes more understanding so with that clarification hobzee, i am pleased to what you are doing. More concentration on the scoring will be better, and also the no catering will make things a bit easier for the orginisers.

I just want to see what the property is like, any pics of it? Also is there any sort of similar speed stages going into next years event?

[Britswed]

Hey Guys do you need a top up ??????



Yours glasses seem to be Half empty





There much better when there half Full



Sounds Great Hoobze


Mal

[RED24]

What a pack of sooks ... If you want to bitch why not ring me .. 03 5975 5533.

We have listened to those that talk to us and have implemented many of those ideas or explained why we wont.. Can't get better than that.

Straight up we even thought of cutting spectators right out. But we understand there are die hard family followers and with out them the hand brake is applied along wth "passion rations" and some dudes cant even build trucks. So then we planned on a big rise in spactator entry fee just to thin it right down to the die hards. But we did listen to you guys and left it as it was and are going to bring another swag of paid transport marshals in to manage convoys and punctual start times better etc.

In 2010 I am putting more effort into running an even better and smoother event with even greater effort into the racing itself with longer harder and more exciting stages with more emphasis on the rules and scoring and I wont have the distractions of catering and the trimmings that go along with it. This year that aspect took up about 50% of my event preparations and behind the scene headaches. (But dont get the wrong idea - Kevvy did a fabulous job and the food was terrific thanks to these efforts) Last year it was closer to 80% headaches with camp/catering issues. This mix is all wrong and we need 80% on racing.

Those who entered before the announcement were asked if they wanted out and they all stayed.

Re the buggies - we have had a buggy class for 2 years with heaps of promissed entries but just Rob every year. He's great and we love the buggy but in the end we have to ask is it worth a class along with exceptions to CCDA class rules for just 1 entry. I have had new interest from a group of buggies (local and overseas) and I said if they get me 5 entries in before entries are full (got to be quick) then we shall re-introduce the class. Let's see the colour of their money or just shut up. Simple!

Since the announcement we received another 10 entries so it is filling fast. Only about 15 to 20 spots left before we go to standby lists.

if you were thinking of cutting out spectators then obviously it can be afforded y not cut spectator pricing?

[Hobzee]

if you were thinking of cutting out spectators then obviously it can be afforded y not cut spectator pricing?

Because dropping spectator prices would mean we have even more spectators and although we would love to have heaps - that means more bums needing toilets, more convoy leaders, more showers, more traffic on farmers tracks past his house, more people we need medic forms from, more people saying "dont start the stage until we get there", etc. We have had risk assessors work with us and would you believe the greatest risk of injury comes from within the spectator fleet. So it's not all about helmets and roll bars, but nurses and medics who can handle heart attacks, sprains and illnesses too.

It's a tough one for us - the sport needs spectators. We love spectators and I know almost all past spectators by name, what state they are from and what car they have. But when we have to look after a large number of them for a week it becomes a big challenge and takes away from effort we apply to the real reason we are there - to race.

OK - time for compromise - I shall make sure that spectators get a better deal, more bang for their buck, something special. And I have 11 months to come up with what that is. But it's my promise.

By the way we are also already working on 2011 (like the year after next) for those who think running events is light work.

My though for the day ... Hmm I have a stubby here that is still half FULL... Or was the stubby bigger than it needed to be. I think not! Maybe I dont have enough of them... better get more.

[beretta]

What a pack of sooks ... If you want to bitch why not ring me .. 03 5975 5533.

No, this is a forum, for public comment and constructive critiscm. Can't you handle it?

I have been a big fan of Cliffhanger from day one as you boys know, just giving you some feedback on the change from my point of view.

I sincerely hope that Cliffhanger 2010 is a cracker and I will hopefully be there, I just fuggin hate cooking at the best of times, particularly when I can have a roast meal in the middle of nowhere! I would be happy to pay more to have catering, as long as it is of the standard of this years, I was a happy well fed competitior.

[NavRun]

Bring your wife to cook for you Paul.....

I've tee'd up my old man to cook for me....

[mickyd555]

I reckon it sounds great, i just payed my deposit tonight for next year. Driving to Cobar we will do in one day so it means two less days off work so suits me fine.

[RangieRacing]

What a pack of sooks ... If you want to bitch why not ring me .. 03 5975 5533.

Hobzee this is a public forum for discussion, healthy debate, exchange of opinions, whether we agree with each other or not. It is only through debate that new ideas surface or old ones are improved. It is only through debate that we understand each others point of view and more importantly respect the other person's point of view. I do not apprecite the implication that my comments were being made behind your back, and I don't have the courage to speak to you directly by stating "why not ring me....03 59755533. My comments were my personal feelings made in a public forum.

Hobzee you posted your annoucement on a public forum, which by it's very nature will attract comment, positive and negative.

Note that I said I was disappointed that the event location had been changed in my comments, it was a personal expression not a judgement of you, Rudi, or the organisers "(especially the time and effort required) of such a great event in the Cliffhanger.

My understanding that in 2005 you established the Cliffhanger as an alternative event to the OBC, taking all that you percieved to be missing in a fine event and incorporating them into the Cliffhanger. One of those was providing for spectators, but I understand with the growth of the event, this segement should not take over the main concept, that is racing. Your initial annoucement did not fully give the reasons as your later postings.

Happy to express my opinion, which I expect should be respected without ridcule, which is the same that I would extend to you and others.

More that willing to sit down with you Hobzee and develop another event for Broken Hill, as Rudi knows we had this discussion last year.

Keep the good work going, along with the healthy debate. And now that we have all expressed our views, let's get on and make The 2010 Cliffhanger a great Success.

Cheers

Gary

[NKS auto]

Its a pitty that neither jeff or neil were actually informed about any of these new developments for the event. Have tried to ring but cant get an answer

[beretta]

Bring your wife to cook for you Paul.....

I've tee'd up my old man to cook for me....

My wife wouldn't come out there to cook for me even if I held a gun to her head! She'd give me the standard answer....."get stuffed"!

Is Roasted Wild Pig on the menu? Haha

[NavRun]

as I recall Paul, you always hanging around my dads spit anyway, depriving me of my rations... so I gather I will have to put bunting around my campfire....

[beretta]

Bunting wont stop me!

[pigletracing]

yep it would be worth the penalty for breaking the bunting
mmmmmmm foooooood mmmmmmmm beeeeeeeeer

[Breaker Brother]

Bring your wife to cook for you Paul.....

I've tee'd up my old man to cook for me....

Just make sure he doesn't season everything with his "Lolly Water"

[Ruffy]

Very interesting looking from the outside in. Having been on both sides of the event i can see valid points from everyone. However, I think the thing that MOST competitors don't realise is how much time, effort and MONEY events like this cost to organise and run.
Spectators: The require crowd control, like it not. The rquire marshals to bunt off areas for them. They requires showers and toilets. Every per head cost of the event is increased with every spectator, first aid requirements, insurances and the list goes on.
Competitors: You are lucky in today's day and age to have some guys who are dedicating the time and effort to finding these properties full stop, let alone trying to find something suitable. You have options, you can stay at home and sook how it will never be the same, you can appreciate the efforts and have a crack at the event or you can whinge to your mates that there's no events anymore cos no-one went
If it's cobar or nowhere then where would you prefer?
I say put up or shut up, constructive critiscism is healthy, so once you've experienced the event at Cobar then fire away. By all means ask questions to see if the event is suitable for you, but negativity at this point is meaningless to all parties involved.
Lets go Racing

[Ruffy]

Bring your wife to cook for you Paul.....

I've tee'd up my old man to cook for me....

My wife wouldn't come out there to cook for me even if I held a gun to her head! She'd give me the standard answer....."get stuffed"!

Is Roasted Wild Pig on the menu? Haha

Tis ok Paul... Leave your wife at home... we'll organise a pig on a spit for her..

[Britswed]

Competitors: You are lucky in today's day and age to have some guys who are dedicating the time and effort to finding these properties full stop, let alone trying to find something suitable. You have options, you can stay at home and sook how it will never be the same, you can appreciate the efforts and have a crack at the event or you can whinge to your mates that there's no events anymore cos no-one went
If it's cobar or nowhere then where would you prefer?
I say put up or shut up, constructive critiscism is healthy, so once you've experienced the event at Cobar then fire away. By all means ask questions to see if the event is suitable for you, but negativity at this point is meaningless to all parties involved.
Lets go Racing

Well Said for a Mexican