Learning to TIG weld alloy intercoler pipes

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

I need to plumb up the intercooler and have a heap of alloy 2mm wall 2" pipe from the WRX kit I have. It has bends etc.

I can Stick and Mig weld reasonably (depending on difficulty - overhead stick on thin dirty steel - not so good. Clean 5mm on a bench - easy) and own a 210A mig and very solid (ancient) stick welder

If I buy a suitable TIG, what's the chance of me learning to weld 1mm and 2mm alloy in a reasonable space of time?

Assuming I can't afford an expensive one, I'll be looking on fleabay for one of these AC/DC Tig / Plasma cutter combo jobs I think. I may get a seperate plasma cutter instead later, it just depends on the deal. Is there anything I should look out for?

Thanx
Paul

[Nuckingfuts]

its completely different to mig and arc, as in the difficulty and the way you should go about it. If you have no idea how to weld alloy, get someone who does to show you the basics and teach yourself from there. there is a few important things you prob wont work out for yourself. you will have no end of troubles trying to learn from scratch otherwise. its not that easy at the best of times(especially to do it neatly) and on such thin tube. but give it go, ya never know

[Mudzuki]

Why do you need to tig?

You should be able to do it with your mig.

[jessie928]

Why do you need to tig?

You should be able to do it with your mig.

yeah get a teflon liner and a small spool of alloy and go from there.

Jes

[Struth]

You will need a hi frequency welder to weld Ali with TIG, a cheap unit will do it but Ali is a bit of an aquired skill.

Give yourself at least 5 to 10 hours practice begore touching anything you don't want thumb size holes in

[Patroler]

I was already pretty good with stainless, so when i tried alu, it only took a few goes to get it right.
My only advice would be to get a heap of aluminium plate 3mm or so, and practice on the bench in a comfortable spot, elbows supported etc, read what you can about it, although once you can tig steel, the technique is very similar.
Keep practicing till you get it right before you make the final welds, good if you can get someone who knows to show you, but i pretty much taught myself via books and practice so it can be done.
And you'll need AC HF(different from HF start) on your welder, zirconated electrodes(white end - don't bother balling the ends up, electrodes 2.4mm or less will be fine if you use them with square (brand new) ends)
Certainly don't sharpen them like you would for s/s,
Clean everything before you weld, i wipe the bench down with a rag soaked in acetone, clean rag in acetone to wipe the filler rod over, and all the bits to be welded, clean hands also.
After welding i give the weld a wire brush (once again clean - normally new stainless brush) do it by hand, i.e. don't use a wire wheel on the grinder - or it will look pretty rough.
After that i wash with soapy water, dry and polish with autosol, comes up like chrome!

[bogged]

what was that URL to them trainin vids tha Bru posted while back??

[shakes]

I can weld stick/mig fine, i can also oxy weld extremely well I've only spent a couple of hours max messing around on a mate's machine after he's set it up to weld what ever I have in front of me and TIG is an art compared to everything else. It took me a couple of hours of practice to start getting consistant peno... it is easily going to take me several more to get penetration for a "complete" weld. let alone have it even and neat.

it's not impossible but you will work extremely hard to get there. another vote for the ali wire for the MIG

[matthewK]

I can weld stick/mig fine, i can also oxy weld extremely well I've only spent a couple of hours max messing around on a mate's machine after he's set it up to weld what ever I have in front of me and TIG is an art compared to everything else. It took me a couple of hours of practice to start getting consistant peno... it is easily going to take me several more to get penetration for a "complete" weld. let alone have it even and neat.

it's not impossible but you will work extremely hard to get there. another vote for the ali wire for the MIG

you could mig ally , i find it tig better neater and relaxing

tig is slighly like oxy welding ya dabbing your filler into arc just remember to use the right tung and gas and a slightly rounded tip

work on peno it why god created the grinder

[Harb]

I find Intercooler pipes pretty easy to deal with.....
The good thing about them is they are both the same size and thickness if using the same stock, so everything is uniform.
I also give them a bit of a warm up with a heat gun, so the welding is a bit easier.
The main thing with TIG is keep the weld site clean and free of contaminants and you will find its not to hard to learn.
only use stuff you have brought for aluminum... ie stainless steel wire brush etc.... don't use stuff you have been using on steel or you will contaminate the weld site.....
Setting up the welder itself is the hardest part with TIG and is critical for a good nice looking strong weld, and as suggested , try some scrap first of a similar size or off cuts of the material you are using if possible.
Straight Argon , white tipped tungsten , and get the arc balance right and you will be into it.

If you are lucky enough to be using a good welder that helps a lot.
My new machine even has adjustments for the size ball you want to form on the end of the tungsten , and if you are really lazy being a synergic welder, you just tell it what you are welding and its onboard computer sets the whole thing up for you.....
But even with the smallest simplest welders you will nail it quick if you put some time in.... TIG being hard is a myth..... its only hard if you dont clean up the weld site, or have the welder set up wrong......

Also make sure you keep the filler rod in close enough to be encapsulated in the shielding gas, or if you pull it out to far into the open air you will let it oxidize and then when you put it in again you will contaminate the weld........holding the rod at a different angle to the angle the torch is on helps stop the rod melting when holding it in close like that......or the reflected heat will make the rod soft and melt away before you get it in to the weld pool.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

If you are lucky enough to be using a good welder that helps a lot.
My new machine even has adjustments for the size ball you want to form on the end of the tungsten , and if you are really lazy being a synergic welder, you just tell it what you are welding and its onboard computer sets the whole thing up for you.....
But even with the smallest simplest welders you will nail it quick if you put some time in.... TIG being hard is a myth..... its only hard if you dont clean up the weld site, or have the welders set up wrong......

These ebay jobs have settings for the shape of the pulse, b I've no idea how 3 - 5 arc settings translate to shape of the arc.

How do you clean the weld site? Just for contaminants, or do you have to brush off the oxide layer with a high speed stainless brush?

I suspect 2mm will be a bit thin for the mig on alloy, and I know the 1mm definately would be (is ok - might throw that mbit of pipe in the bin)

These are chinese pipes and not too messy. I wonder what they used in their sweatshop?

Paul

[Harb]

If you are lucky enough to be using a good welder that helps a lot.
My new machine even has adjustments for the size ball you want to form on the end of the tungsten , and if you are really lazy being a synergic welder, you just tell it what you are welding and its onboard computer sets the whole thing up for you.....
But even with the smallest simplest welders you will nail it quick if you put some time in.... TIG being hard is a myth..... its only hard if you dont clean up the weld site, or have the welders set up wrong......

These ebay jobs have settings for the shape of the pulse, b I've no idea how 3 - 5 arc settings translate to shape of the arc.

How do you clean the weld site? Just for contaminants, or do you have to brush off the oxide layer with a high speed stainless brush?

I suspect 2mm will be a bit thin for the mig on alloy, and I know the 1mm definately would be (is ok - might throw that mbit of pipe in the bin)

These are chinese pipes and not too messy. I wonder what they used in their sweatshop?

Paul

Yeah the different wave forms dictate penetration and how smooth the arc is.....
I tend to use mine with a sine wave on the positive and negative swing of the waveform......... its a compromise between nice looking welds and penetration , but perfect for stuff up to around 5mm.......... after that I look at other wave forms.
The Arc balance, or cleaning action I seem to run at about 50/50 most of the time on clean materials and adjust it either way depending on what I am doing, but any more than 50 % cleaning and you will burn Tungsten quicker as the heat is directed back into the torch .

For cleaning , I just use Hot soapy water mostly, and if I need something stronger metho , isopropyl alcohol .
Be very very careful using solvents, because under the intense heat of the arc, poisonous gas can be produced from what was harmless before....

[shakes]

I can weld stick/mig fine, i can also oxy weld extremely well I've only spent a couple of hours max messing around on a mate's machine after he's set it up to weld what ever I have in front of me and TIG is an art compared to everything else. It took me a couple of hours of practice to start getting consistant peno... it is easily going to take me several more to get penetration for a "complete" weld. let alone have it even and neat.

it's not impossible but you will work extremely hard to get there. another vote for the ali wire for the MIG

you could mig ally , i find it tig better neater and relaxing

tig is slighly like oxy welding ya dabbing your filler into arc just remember to use the right tung and gas and a slightly rounded tip

work on peno it why god created the grinder

No questions about it TIG is soooo much more satisfying than any other.
But for a few quick home jobs of something that's most likely not going to be used often I'd go the migged ally route.

I've got the amount of filler and speed etc pretty close to spot on for flat runs along sheet. it's keeping the arc/pool/distance from the sheet that gets me everytime due to my hand that doesn't want to be steady

[fester2au]

Good luck and good work if you guys are getting good looking, consistent, quality welds on ali with a basic non pulse home MIG. Me I wouldn't touch the MIG for ali work even the wizz bang twin pusle MIG at work is only used for structural size ali welding and not were presentation is important.

If you are really keen on good ali with MIG forget the basic teflon liners and get a good quality Fronius liner. You should also be changing the rollers as well.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

not were presentation is important.

Presentation?

I have an angle grinder to flatten it off and a bonnet to hide it

Even better, it's only air and diesel's don't have a mixture, so it can be porous and leak and I probably wouldn't care too much

Paul

[festy]

Make sure you get a foot pedal.
Because Al is so conductive, you need to be able to back off the current while you're going or you'll end up in a mess.

There's a dvd by Covell called 'Tig Welding Basics' that's a great intro to tig welding Al. They also have another dvd 'Working with tubing' which may be useful if you're doing intercooler piping, but the tig welding one covers all the basics.
Google can help you get those.
IMO these are a better place to start than the other videos that have been posted here.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Make sure you get a foot pedal.
Because Al is so conductive, you need to be able to back off the current while you're going or you'll end up in a mess.

Foot pedal is more than "on/off" then? Varies power?

Thanx
Paul

[Harb]

Foot Pedal or Amptrol Is like a throttle on the Amps......Some welders have them on the torch.....

If you are not real worried about looks etc , why dont you just use Exhaust Pipe, and buy some mandrel bends at the exhaust place to get the shape into it...... oxy or mig and just tidy up with a grinder.....
Nothing.... absolutely nothing looks worse than ground Aluminum.........
Unless you are really going to put some hard buffing time in and make it look "One Piece" stick with Steel.

[ISUZUROVER]

I suspect 2mm will be a bit thin for the mig on alloy, and I know the 1mm definately would be (is ok - might throw that mbit of pipe in the bin)

I have mig welded 1.2 and 1 mm alluminium, but with a block of brass clamped behind the area to soak up heat.

[awill4x4]

Paul, you need to be aware that if your tubing is of Chinese origin like you say, then it's more than likely coated or anodised. This is common on Turbo XS piping.
This surface finish MUST be removed prior to welding or you'll have no end of difficulty in getting it welded nicely.
If I have to weld on anodised components I remove the anodising with a die grinder as I've found that sanding discs tend to "smear" the anodising through the material.
Regards Andrew.

[fester2au]

Paul, you need to be aware that if your tubing is of Chinese origin like you say, then it's more than likely coated or anodised. This is common on Turbo XS piping.
This surface finish MUST be removed prior to welding or you'll have no end of difficulty in getting it welded nicely.
If I have to weld on anodised components I remove the anodising with a die grinder as I've found that sanding discs tend to "smear" the anodising through the material.
Regards Andrew.

X2 and sometimes it's hard to tell, got caught out with some the other day that started welding a bit different to normal. Unknown origin and looked fine.

And good on you if you are not worried about the look Paul, but that's maybe the difference between home handyman and trademans who always sees his work as an expression of his ability (also a problem for trademen who are virgos)