[NSW] Nissan Trials 2009

[Nelso]

as for my post you quoted i was saying to the fella that said that diff swaps should not be on a tough tourer is having a lend of himself . diff swaps (which are not disallowed in the rules for classic trials ) are not a hardcore only mod , anyone can throw in gu diffs into a gq , mounts up the same , gives a bit more strength bit more width/stability and is still a very usable touring rig .

and most people i know that go touring have diff locks , so i stand by what i said "a nissan with diff locks , mine included does not by itself make a tough tourer just as putting in different diffs does not make a rig a hard core only rig "

So you are saying a Suzuki running Toyota or Nissan diffs are still keeping to the tourer theme? They greatly increase strength and track and would be like running Rockwells under your GQ which would obviously increase how hard you could throw it at obstacles but would also take away it's touring ability. Why not just upgrade to Mog diffs while you are at it since diff swaps "are not a hardcore only mod"? If you run highway gears in them they would still be good for touring and just "gives a bit more strength bit more width/stability" as you put it. Yes I do know the rules do not allow portal diffs but the point is made to emphasise how your argument to allow diff swaps is severely flawed.

Swapping GU diffs into a GQ still uses the factory mounts so I could understand how that can be justified but putting diffs from another model under your car requires you to fabricate new mounts to get them to fit. I was under the impression that the rules of this class were basically trying to rule out any fabricated mounts (i.e. major modifications) as this comp is aimed at a far less modified vehicle and more your daily driver.

To me the logical ruling would be that tough tourers have diffs from the same make of vehicle (but maybe could upgrade to a later model eg from 40 series to 60 series, or from narrow track to wide track Suzuki etc) as this seems to keep to the underlying tone of what the comp was designed for; yet you think I am having a lend of myself for applying logic and asking the question.

If the people running the comp think that it's ok to approve diff swaps (which I won't particularly care if they do) then they need to come out and clarify it so that everyone knows what can and can not be entered. Now, this is exactly what I asked for in the first place, but instead got your egotistical opinion as a response, which to be honest I couldn't care less about. So, this time, is it possible to hear what the organisers have to say about the matter as that is the only opinion that counts.

[blade 929]

as for my post you quoted i was saying to the fella that said that diff swaps should not be on a tough tourer is having a lend of himself . diff swaps (which are not disallowed in the rules for classic trials ) are not a hardcore only mod , anyone can throw in gu diffs into a gq , mounts up the same , gives a bit more strength bit more width/stability and is still a very usable touring rig .

and most people i know that go touring have diff locks , so i stand by what i said "a nissan with diff locks , mine included does not by itself make a tough tourer just as putting in different diffs does not make a rig a hard core only rig "

So you are saying a Suzuki running Toyota or Nissan diffs are still keeping to the tourer theme? They greatly increase strength and track and would be like running Rockwells under your GQ which would obviously increase how hard you could throw it at obstacles but would also take away it's touring ability. Why not just upgrade to Mog diffs while you are at it since diff swaps "are not a hardcore only mod"? If you run highway gears in them they would still be good for touring and just "gives a bit more strength bit more width/stability" as you put it. Yes I do know the rules do not allow portal diffs but the point is made to emphasise how your argument to allow diff swaps is severely flawed.

Swapping GU diffs into a GQ still uses the factory mounts so I could understand how that can be justified but putting diffs from another model under your car requires you to fabricate new mounts to get them to fit. I was under the impression that the rules of this class were basically trying to rule out any fabricated mounts (i.e. major modifications) as this comp is aimed at a far less modified vehicle and more your daily driver.

To me the logical ruling would be that tough tourers have diffs from the same make of vehicle (but maybe could upgrade to a later model eg from 40 series to 60 series, or from narrow track to wide track Suzuki etc) as this seems to keep to the underlying tone of what the comp was designed for; yet you think I am having a lend of myself for applying logic and asking the question.

If the people running the comp think that it's ok to approve diff swaps (which I won't particularly care if they do) then they need to come out and clarify it so that everyone knows what can and can not be entered. Now, this is exactly what I asked for in the first place, but instead got your egotistical opinion as a response, which to be honest I couldn't care less about. So, this time, is it possible to hear what the organisers have to say about the matter as that is the only opinion that counts.

wake up to yourself i was not being rude to you i was explaining what they were saying in the rules , you were saying "in my opinion this should not be allowed etc " so i would think you are the egotistical one , as for my quote on a nissan with lockers is a tow vehicle , if that upset you you need to get a sense of humour

toyota diff in a zook equal to running rockwells in a nissan .
you can run lux diffs in a zook with no suspension mount mods only the perches on the diff itself on some will need moving as do wide track diff perches from a zook to fit into a narrow track zook. and if some one chooses to change there mounts of their suspension than they aren't allowed to compete anyways so whats your argument ?
so are you running standard diffs? if so why bother asking the question ?
you make out that diff swaps are more of a serious mod than engine swaps , and they allow engine swaps (to a point)


im sorry i didn't read what you said as applying logic , i saw it as yet another go at people that modify there vehicles , whine whine whine , lifes unfair how can i compete against that whine whine .

as i said i read it as they wrote it , NO suspension mount modifications , (that does not rule out diff swaps )

i gotta go now and look for some rockwells for my gu so i can be competitive against those hilux shod zooks

as ol uncle chopper would say "nelso harden the F#@k up"
lighten up nelso the world carn't be on your shoulders when i have most of the weight on mine .

[mud_runner_GQ]

as for my post you quoted i was saying to the fella that said that diff swaps should not be on a tough tourer is having a lend of himself . diff swaps (which are not disallowed in the rules for classic trials ) are not a hardcore only mod , anyone can throw in gu diffs into a gq , mounts up the same , gives a bit more strength bit more width/stability and is still a very usable touring rig .

and most people i know that go touring have diff locks , so i stand by what i said "a nissan with diff locks , mine included does not by itself make a tough tourer just as putting in different diffs does not make a rig a hard core only rig "

So you are saying a Suzuki running Toyota or Nissan diffs are still keeping to the tourer theme? They greatly increase strength and track and would be like running Rockwells under your GQ which would obviously increase how hard you could throw it at obstacles but would also take away it's touring ability. Why not just upgrade to Mog diffs while you are at it since diff swaps "are not a hardcore only mod"? If you run highway gears in them they would still be good for touring and just "gives a bit more strength bit more width/stability" as you put it. Yes I do know the rules do not allow portal diffs but the point is made to emphasise how your argument to allow diff swaps is severely flawed.

Swapping GU diffs into a GQ still uses the factory mounts so I could understand how that can be justified but putting diffs from another model under your car requires you to fabricate new mounts to get them to fit. I was under the impression that the rules of this class were basically trying to rule out any fabricated mounts (i.e. major modifications) as this comp is aimed at a far less modified vehicle and more your daily driver.

To me the logical ruling would be that tough tourers have diffs from the same make of vehicle (but maybe could upgrade to a later model eg from 40 series to 60 series, or from narrow track to wide track Suzuki etc) as this seems to keep to the underlying tone of what the comp was designed for; yet you think I am having a lend of myself for applying logic and asking the question.

If the people running the comp think that it's ok to approve diff swaps (which I won't particularly care if they do) then they need to come out and clarify it so that everyone knows what can and can not be entered. Now, this is exactly what I asked for in the first place, but instead got your egotistical opinion as a response, which to be honest I couldn't care less about. So, this time, is it possible to hear what the organisers have to say about the matter as that is the only opinion that counts.

wake up to yourself i was not being rude to you i was explaining what they were saying in the rules , you were saying "in my opinion this should not be allowed etc " so i would think you are the egotistical one , as for my quote on a nissan with lockers is a tow vehicle , if that upset you you need to get a sense of humour

toyota diff in a zook equal to running rockwells in a nissan .
you can run lux diffs in a zook with no suspension mount mods only the perches on the diff itself on some will need moving as do wide track diff perches from a zook to fit into a narrow track zook. and if some one chooses to change there mounts of their suspension than they aren't allowed to compete anyways so whats your argument ?
so are you running standard diffs? if so why bother asking the question ?
you make out that diff swaps are more of a serious mod than engine swaps , and they allow engine swaps (to a point)


im sorry i didn't read what you said as applying logic , i saw it as yet another go at people that modify there vehicles , whine whine whine , lifes unfair how can i compete against that whine whine .

as i said i read it as they wrote it , NO suspension mount modifications , (that does not rule out diff swaps )

i gotta go now and look for some rockwells for my gu so i can be competitive against those hilux shod zooks

as ol uncle chopper would say "nelso harden the F#@k up"
lighten up nelso the world carn't be on your shoulders when i have most of the weight on mine .

hay blade can you put a pair of steer rockwells for my GQ???

[Nelso]

Blah, blah blah make some assumptions, throw some more personal attacks around behind the cover of his keyboard and still make no points that anyone cares about

Have you actually read my posts? I have not winged at all. I couldn't care less whether they include these mods in the rules or not but have just asked the organisers for a clarification. When you went off all high and mighty I merely responded with the reasons why I asked for the clarification in the first place.

Now you have admitted to misinterpreting my question in the first place and have come back with two emotionally charged responses and attempted to insult me which has you coming across as an immature know-it-all. Has it upset me? Not at all. For one I agree that a locked Nissan is just a tow vehicle (which adds strength to my point that this comp was directed more to the tow vehicles than at the comp rigs) and two you don't mean anything to me so why would I care what you say? I deal with dysfunctional kids everyday in my job and honestly, your rants sound just like them. I don't get emotionally involved with my dealings with them so why would I put any emotional investment into some stranger on the net? I suggest it's time you calm yourself down and let this one go as some of us have better things to do with our time than get into arguments over petty things with people we don't know or care about.

Now if the people running this event have an answer to my question, that's all I'm interested in hearing at this point.

[Toecutta]

I was under the impression that the rules of this class were basically trying to rule out any fabricated mounts (i.e. major modifications) as this comp is aimed at a far less modified vehicle and more your daily driver.

Good point Nelso but as stated in the rules "Spring Overs Allowed", this would required a small amount of fabrication for the mounts.

If someone was to do a "Spring Over" on a Suzuki it requires the same amount of fabrication to install a Suzuki diff as it would a Hilux diff and the track is all but the same. The only real advantage of doing this is for the extra strength gained for the relative cost involved. (you can spend heaps on CV's and rings to make a Suzuki diff stronger)

Having said that I am not having a go, just pointing out something that Blade should have instead of going on a rant.

P.S Blade, I would class your "Tow rig" as a "Tuff Tourer" and I hope you are going to enter it, its a good truck.

[blade 929]

I was under the impression that the rules of this class were basically trying to rule out any fabricated mounts (i.e. major modifications) as this comp is aimed at a far less modified vehicle and more your daily driver.

Good point Nelso but as stated in the rules "Spring Overs Allowed", this would required a small amount of fabrication for the mounts.

If someone was to do a "Spring Over" on a Suzuki it requires the same amount of fabrication to install a Suzuki diff as it would a Hilux diff and the track is all but the same. The only real advantage of doing this is for the extra strength gained for the relative cost involved. (you can spend heaps on CV's and rings to make a Suzuki diff stronger)

Having said that I am not having a go, just pointing out something that Blade should have instead of going on a rant.

P.S Blade, I would class your "Tow rig" as a "Tuff Tourer" and I hope you are going to enter it, its a good truck.

hey nail clipper i did not go on a rant , i pointed out in my original post that reverse shackle ,chassis extensions etc is changing the suspension mounting points , and that there is nothing said against diff swaps so all should be fine if you keep the standard mounting points etc . it was "i don't care about your imature attitude "nelso that started by stating HE does not believe there should be ANY drivetrain components allowed from manufacturer to manufacture . so alls i did was try and help by stating diff swaps with no suspension changes should be fine , and than made a comical remark about nissans with lockers being tow vehicles . but its ok this has gone on too long and nelso doesn't care what i say (although he seems to bite pretty easy ) .

anyways i'll see yas at the comp , i'll be the one there hiding behind my keyboard if my parents allow me to go that is

[Mid73]

Ok there was a working bee on the weekend and well lets say that the stairway will be 1 event to watch

[prontozuk]

Ok once again clarification from those running the new tuff tourer trials.. in regards to "The original suspension location points must be retained" does that mean the "caster plates" like the lift picture below will not be allowed as they are not the original suspension locations. In my opinion this would be like adding drop shackles which from what I gather from discussion is not allowed for leaf sprung trucks.





thanks James

[turbo gu]

Ok once again clarification from those running the new tuff tourer trials.. in regards to "The original suspension location points must be retained" does that mean the "caster plates" like the lift picture below will not be allowed as they are not the original suspension locations. In my opinion this would be like adding drop shackles which from what I gather from discussion is not allowed for leaf sprung trucks.





thanks James

Castor plates are allowed. they are a bolt on modification that alters the angle of the diff. If anything they are a downgrade as it dosen't improve travel/flex etc
The whole point of using the original locations is the event is aimed at mildly modifed cars. If you are chopping up suspension mounts and adding longer links ,leaves etc this is the WRONG event for you.
Putting different diffs under your car that are bolt in eg GU into GU will be fine as all the original mounts are used BUT putting Hilux diffs under a Zuk you will need to contact miss wendy to get clarification.

[the plumber]

when do we find out confirmation of date & get entry forms

[bradboat]

Dates are confirmed - 7th and 8th November.

Entry Forms have been drafted and will be available very soon.

Website is in the process of being finalised.


Cheers
Brad

[HEMIDOG]

Ok there was a working bee on the weekend and well lets say that the stairway will be 1 event to watch

I was down at the site this week and agree that the stairway will be interesting. Mudhole looks good too

[BigRedJeep]

Just an update.....
We had a good meeting last night and settled on prices and a few other details.
So the short version...
$25 per person or $50 for the weekend
$50 to compete per person

So does that mean that for a vehicle competing it would be $100 per driver/navi?

[BigRedJeep]

Also I'm guessing there was no luck getting the "original suspension mounts" bit being removed from the class classification?

[Miss Wendy]

Just an update.....
We had a good meeting last night and settled on prices and a few other details.
So the short version...
$25 per person or $50 for the weekend
$50 to compete per person

So does that mean that for a vehicle competing it would be $100 per driver/navi?

No just $50 per person/driver so if you and your uncle Bill and aunt Sally are all wanting to drive your car.... then thats $150.

[the plumber]

how are we going with forms etc

[Miss Wendy]

how are we going with forms etc

I know....I'm sorry
There has been some reconstrction of the web page but it shouldn't be too long now. They have all the forms and class rules etc. Just waiting for them to be loaded up. If it's any consolation, nobody has the forms so every one's in the same boat.
Sorry again.

[Miss Wendy]

Good news...The forms are now available on www.nissanpatrolclub.org
Note there are two forms - Tourers and Tuff Tourers. Tourers will hand their forms in at the gate and Tuff Tourers will post theirs' off the to address toward the bottom of the form.
As with the class requirements if its any thing thats not clear.....ASK. Keeping in mind this is not a Nissan Trials. Its a Classic Trials. If it wasn't around 20 years ago then its probably not on.
Thanks

[GQ4B]

CLASSIC NISSAN TRIALS ENTRY FORMS

Touring Class Entry Form: CLICK HERE

Tuff Tourer Entry Form: CLICK HERE

[whippet86]

i know the question was asked but i didnt see a reply, did you have to be a member of a club?

[Miss Wendy]

i know the question was asked but i didnt see a reply, did you have to be a member of a club?

No. Anyone can drive.

[whippet86]

hey just want to clarify wat class will fit into, hilux 33's, no lockers, little lift, but fitted aftermarket turbo? what class does this put me into? just want to make sure, dont want to turn up and find out entered into wrong class.

[rocnut]

Just for some clarification I (well I'm gayer than aids! missus) have a zook with a 1.6 engine instead of the died in the arse 1.3. Does this put me out of the touring class? As I am only running 31's or can leave my 29's on and only a 3inch overall lift leaves me uncompetitive in the tuff tourer class. I run this at son of trials.

[GQ4B]

TOURING CLASS

• Maximum tyre size 33”
• Maximum suspension/body lift combined of 4”
• No Diff Locks or Electronic Traction Aides – If you have them we must be able to verify they are turned off and can not be used during the event.
• No Non-factory forced induction systems or Replacement Engines
• No Bead Locks


TUFF TOURING CLASS

• Maximum tyre diameter 36”
• Forced induction permitted in diesels
• Engine swaps permitted only if a variation of the original configuration of the motor is used. Eg. A 6cyl for a 6cyl. Discussion can be had with the Clerk of the Course or the assistant to the Clerk of the Course if in doubt.
• Diff locks permitted
• Single transfer case only
• Gear reduction in transfer case permitted e.g. Rock Hopper, Marlins, and Marks etc.
• Body lift permitted
• The original suspension location points must be retained
• Trac bars allowed on leaf-sprung vehicles
• Agricultural type tyres, chained, spiked or similar will not be permitted
• No rear disconnect allowed

If you are unsure as to which class your vehicle fits into you should contact the trials secretary to clarify your circumstances. The trials secretary can be contacted at trialsmanager@nissanpatrolclub.org

[turbo gu]

Just for some clarification I (well I'm gayer than aids! missus) have a zook with a 1.6 engine instead of the died in the arse 1.3. Does this put me out of the touring class? As I am only running 31's or can leave my 29's on and only a 3inch overall lift leaves me uncompetitive in the tuff tourer class. I run this at son of trials.

being a Zuk motor no dramas staying in the same class as you compete in Son of Trials.

Whippet PM Miss Wendy but i think you should still be able to compete in touring.

[dans-paj92]

So I don't have to be a member of a 4wd club?
And am I allowed to compete if im on my red P's?
Is it okay to swap a diesel for a petrol?
What if you have 36x12.50R16 simex pedes and they measure 37 something??
Cheers
Dan

[j-top paj]

What if you have 36x12.50R16 simex pedes and they measure 37

i think 36 pedes just cut it, unless they are brand new...



dont quote me, wait for confirmation..

[coopster]

said like you need a degree in engineeing to work what is and isn't in said to comfushing to me

[Slunnie]

Any GQ with drop boxes has also changed the suspension mounting location ????????

Actually the original suspension mount is still used to mount the suspension!!!

Likewise if you create a 5-link setup where the lowers use the OE mounts.

On a more serious note, not that I'm competing, but it does seem strange that you cant use factory ETC which leaves vehicles effectively with open diffs, where you can use factory LSD's. I have no idea who made the rules or what they drive, but I'm guessing the Nissan trials rule freedoms and restrictions will inadvertently produce some very strong results from Nissan Patrols in particular for Tough Tourers and not have them as far behind in Tourers.

[ET4Runner]

Any GQ with drop boxes has also changed the suspension mounting location ????????

Actually the original suspension mount is still used to mount the suspension!!!

Likewise if you create a 5-link setup where the lowers use the OE mounts.

On a more serious note, not that I'm competing, but it does seem strange that you cant use factory ETC which leaves vehicles effectively with open diffs, where you can use factory LSD's. I have no idea who made the rules or what they drive, but I'm guessing the Nissan trials rule freedoms and restrictions will inadvertently produce some very strong results from Nissan Patrols in particular for Tough Tourers and not have them as far behind in Tourers.

You're right Slunnie.

If I were to enter my 80, it would be in Touring with lockers disconnected, which means useless open diffs. Not much fun I'm afraid, so still deciding whether to go or not.