ball joint spacers

[rokbebop]

hi. i made ball joint spacers for the top ball joint of my feroza. i did this on the advise of several other people on this board and on warfs. i intalled the spacer on one side and found that all it did was stuff up my wheel allignment and i obtained no lift at all. i kind of assumed that because other people had done it, it must work, but it seems that it doesnt. now, my torsion bars are not cranked very much at all, is that why this hasnt worked? because the torsion bars are attatched to the bottom would a spacer work better there?

[specs]

you are putting the spacer on the under side of the top arm arent you? please post dimensions of the spacer?

[monmendoza]

I placed ball joint spacers on top and it definitely lifted my Feroza. I was able to lift it 40mm with very little cranking of the torsion bars. The ball joint spacer is 30mm in height.

Here is the picture of the ball joint spacer.


Here is a picture of the ball joint spacer installed.


And here are pictures of my Feroza with 32"x11.5"x R15 tires




I dont think you will be able to put in 32" tires without the lift. I also
placed 2" extended shackles at the rear. Maybe your torsion bar have
a problem.

[MightyMouse]

Ball joint spacers on the top arm will NOT lift the vehicle - it sits on the bottom arm.....

Lower spacers will add lift - they space the ball joint down, and thus the vehicle up.

Top spacers will add more droop ( and F up the camber - if done on their own ).

Have a look at the front suspension........ understand how it works, then think your modifications through. Double A arm suspension is not complex - but modifications without understand the consequences should be avoided IMO

[monmendoza]

Hello MM,

I know that you know a lot about the Feroza, but have you ever placed a ball joint spacer in your Feroza? Because I have, and I have achieved lift with the technique. In fact a ball joint spacer have been installed in my Feroza for more than a year now. Maybe there is a variable in the equation that you have not fully factored in.

[MightyMouse]

He's specifically talking about TOP ball joint spacers and they just cannot lift the vehicle as the top arm only keeps the wheel from falling over.

To lift the vehicle, something has to push the chassis up and the top arm has no means of putting significant vertical force ( the rubber bush does provide the tiniest amount of resistance - but this will dissapear after a little use ) on the upright so how can they provide lift ?

The car sits on the bottom arm / balljoint ( thats where the torsion bar is attached )

And yes i've played with spacers top and bottom and am using fabricated "cranked" control arms to change the relative levels of the ball joints to the inboard pivots, at both the top and bottom to maintain ( actually improve IMO )camber control

Spacers on the bottom ball joints are limited by clearance betwwen the outer CV body and the outer end of the lower control arm.- so gains are limited but......

[rokbebop]

here is a photo of my ball joint spacers not working

[loopyferoza]

hi does any one know any one selling a set of these spaces im chasing a set will look at anything cheers phil chuck me a pm or message me on 0458395197 cheers

[7017]

G'day guys,

I was wondering if somebody could post the specs up on how they made the spacers. If they didn't make them where could i get some from?

Much appreciated,

Simon

[rokbebop]

its a lot of effort to go to for something that at least for me was an immense waste of time, however il post the specs if you like. i intended on doing this anyway. the big hole is about 50 mil then from the centre of that drill 11 mil holes at:

x-17.5 / y-34.2
x+98 / y-38.2
x+8.5 / y+36.4
x+18.2 / y+33.2

then kind of cut around that using your brain

if anyone knows how to make these work please tell me

[7017]

No worries mate, thanks for that. What material did you use to make them? Did they also give you anymore lift in the front end?

Cheers mate

[rokbebop]

i found them inefective however if u wna make em use steel bar. probably 25 mill as the next size is 40 and you will have trouble finding this and grinding it down.

if i crank the torsion bars a bit will this make this work????

[Chunked]

rok, you'll only get lift from having a bottom ball joint spacer and you will get some gains although they are limited because you don't have much clearance to fit a large spacer. (mightymouse already said it...)

[Percy]

A top ball joint spacer will only give back what dropp travel you will have lost from winding up your torsion bars. So if you wind up your T bar 1 inch and install a 1 inch spacer you should go back to standard travel but gain lift.

[rokbebop]

well, maybe they are not completely useless after all... how thicker bottom spacer can you make?

[Chunked]

well, maybe they are not completely useless after all... how thicker bottom spacer can you make?

Not sure on the maximum size as I don't have the tools to do it myself. MM would probably be the one to answer this.

[MightyMouse]

Its been that long since i had standard bits that i cant remember the max - however if you measure the hole in the end of the lower control arm that the lower ball joint fits into that is the "easily" available space (lift).

Mounting the joint under the arm is also possible BUT the lower surface would need substantial strengthing and a solid block inserted to stop it crushing the arm - not easy.

Don't chuck your top spacer - its added droop (gold..... ) but get the camber reset to stop it scrubbing tyres.

The bottom spacer needs to be made properly out of quality steel as this is going to carry the vehicles weight. Its also requires new high tensile bolts etc as the ones pressed into the original ball joint will be too sort by the thickness of the lift block - don't use cheap materials / fasteners.

And...... if you put in a bottom lift - you will need to put the same thickness ( or a bit more ) to control camber.

None of these options is really straightforward unless you have pretty substantial metal working facilities - and it doesn't creat heaps of lift,

The only sucessfully way is longer control arms - its a BIG job, requires custom axles, steering turnbuckles etc etc. I know I have done it to mine, but it makes the car wider so that's also an issue (matches my lux rear axle ).

[ferozamaniac]

A member of our club made this spacers after he raised up his car 5 cm in front an 6 in back. With these spacers he lowered down the up ball and the torsion bars to be more controllable with out any problems. Now the only last thing to check up are the camber to refit.




3cm spacer




The lower spacers are made so you can tigh up a bolt for the ball joint and 4 bigger bolts for the lower link. This was done because of the small gap for the boll joint the lower control arm has. Another problem occurred, the drive safts are 1cm before touching the lower control arm.




1.8cm spacer

[rokbebop]

hey rozamaniak. how did he raise the front up that much? torsion bars??? those bottom spacers look pretty easy to make

[ferozamaniac]

Before he had raised the front suspension only by cracking up the torsion bars now he fitted the spacers and lowered down the torsion bars to get again the same lift like before. Spacers are easy to be made just by taking off the lower ball joint and send it to a mechanic to create spacers. My suggestion is to create a more solid spacer (like the up ball joint) and not in 4 round pieces as my friend done.

[MightyMouse]

Wow ......... great way to break the lower control arm, the force applied to the arm through those little spacers would be mindblowing.

I'd suggest making something a LITTLE stronger, like

[Goatse.AJ]

Wow ......... great way to break the lower control arm, the force applied to the arm through those little spacers would be mindblowing.

I'd suggest making something a LITTLE stronger, like

Got anymore of these?

[MightyMouse]

Actually had a hunt around and these are sitting in my spares pile ..... when I decided to change the arms I didn't use them -

Kept them for "some future use" as they took a depressing amount of time to make, but that's not looking very likely as the current collection of obsessions soaks up all the free time ( and a bit more ).

IIRC they are not machined to the correct thickness yet - they are also designed for the bolts ( stock ones are way too short.... ) to come through the bottom part of the arm, which requires 3 access holes to be added ( 1 is already there for some reason )

[Goatse.AJ]

Actually had a hunt around and these are sitting in my spares pile ..... when I decided to change the arms I didn't use them -

Kept them for "some future use" as they took a depressing amount of time to make, but that's not looking very likely as the current collection of obsessions soaks up all the free time ( and a bit more ).

IIRC they are not machined to the correct thickness yet - they are also designed for the bolts ( stock ones are way too short.... ) to come through the bottom part of the arm, which requires 3 access holes to be added ( 1 is already there for some reason )

[rokbebop]

so can i have them then? please

[inmymemory]

Wow ......... great way to break the lower control arm, the force applied to the arm through those little spacers would be mindblowing.

I'd suggest making something a LITTLE stronger, like

Hi,

I'm the one rozamaniac is talking about. I haven't quite understood... You mean the lower control arm or the lower ball joint?

[MUMSRIG]

so can i have them then? please

I know this is rehashing an old thread..... but DUDE, have you cranked your torsion bars yet? You keep referring to cranking them up but don't say if you actually have or not? Just crank them and be happy... I had 33" Mudders on mine with cranked torsion bars and a body lift and had no clearance issues and PLENTY of height!!

[MightyMouse]

If its just to impress the expresso set - wind up the bars to the max. Who cares that you have no droop and you'll loose front traction on ripple strips?

Sure big tyres look cool - but i've seen a Feroza on 29's with normal suspension outdrive one with 31's with bars cranked all the way up.

Have a look at any capable off roader - they have heaps of droop travel and very little bump - road cars mostly have about equal.

This isn't just a Feroza thing - all IFS 4x4's have this problem and its not any easy thing to fix as you pretty much have to re-engineer the whole front end

[bude_bloke]

HI all, I'm trying to understand this whole ball joint spacer thing. what are the pros and cons, is it worth doing? i have cranked my torsion bars 2 inches and was thinking about getting some tough dog uprated torsion bars.

cheers for any help guys

[MightyMouse]

There's a number of threads already posted with all the pro's and cons - perhaps have a read of them to get the general gist of the concept.

Uprated bars will give you a higher spring rate but this will no effect the ride height unless you choose to wind the bars up and then your still in the no droop group.