Oil/air sperators

[tweak'e]

......... It is very difficult to judge the efficiency of any separator by eye.

absolutely.

something to keep in mind.........at the end of the day by the time you buy a can, fit some sort of half decent filter system your not that far off the price of the Provent anyway.

i don't think a centrifuge style one will actually achieve much. some of the compressed air filter ones that some people have been using has a basic centrifuge setup. without the filter it basically catches nothing.
need restriction to get gas speed up high and high restriction is the last thing you want on the breather line.

ISUZUROVER.......woul the old dunny roll filter flow enough? i know a few been useing them for bypass oil filters but would it work as a breather filter?

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

I think I've just spotted the GAP in this thread.

When Isuzu says 50% by mass getting through - I hear - not really effective, will still leave crap in my intake.

BUT

The stuff that is getting though is fine - that's everything he is saying - barely or subvisible.

So I would bet a fair amount of that will stay suspended in the intake tract and be burnt by the engine. Sure, the intake may feel oily, but that black puddle probably wont be there.

So by mass it's going through, but by intake contamination, there is not oil dripping out many of the jouints.

This would be why some ppl report good results with what may be viewed as sub-optimal designs.

Would that be a fair assessment Isuzurover?

Thanx
Paul

[tweak'e]

very good point.

[KiwiBacon]

Basically if the seperator is better at taking oil out than the rest of the hoses are, we're good to go.

[fester2au]

something to keep in mind.........at the end of the day by the time you buy a can, fit some sort of half decent filter system your not that far off the price of the Provent anyway.

?

Depends on what you can buy teh materials for. I reckon I can make the structure or a design like Kiwibacons for under $20 in either stainless or ali, hence my quest to get a suitably cheap and effective filter medium. I could get the provent filters at USD pirces with cheap freight I could easily make one for under $100 which is at least $75-$120 that remains in my pocket for other things.

[/quote]

[ISUZUROVER]

ISUZUROVER.......woul the old dunny roll filter flow enough? i know a few been useing them for bypass oil filters but would it work as a breather filter?

I wouldn't try it. I would suspect it would be too dense and hold far too much oil - meaning too much pressure in your crankcase.

Would that be a fair assessment Isuzurover?

l

Basically if the seperator is better at taking oil out than the rest of the hoses are, we're good to go.

OK - lets say a separator pulls out the really big droplets (accounting for 50% of the mass).

What remains are small "invisible" droplets which are highly diffusive. If you then vent your breather to atmosphere, that will probably be fine, no noticeable oil residue.

However, if you have a closed system, these highly diffusive droplets will deposit very nicely and efficiently in the intercooler, and the turbo compressor wheel.

The development of efficient oil-mist filters like the provent came about because engine manufacturers were reporting that (on heavy diesels) the turbocharger compressors were being damaged by soot laden oil-mist deposits. oil mist is deposited and then slowly evaporates away, leaving behind soot...

So - it depens on your setup as to how efficient a breather you need to or want to have. (bearing in mind on newer vehicles it is illegal to have open vent setups).

something to keep in mind.........at the end of the day by the time you buy a can, fit some sort of half decent filter system your not that far off the price of the Provent anyway.

?

Depends on what you can buy teh materials for. I reckon I can make the structure or a design like Kiwibacons for under $20 in either stainless or ali, hence my quest to get a suitably cheap and effective filter medium. I could get the provent filters at USD pirces with cheap freight I could easily make one for under $100 which is at least $75-$120 that remains in my pocket for other things.

[/quote]

If I wanted to save money on a mist filter, and time an materials were free, I would justy buy a Provent element - people have told me you can get them for ~$60, and make the housing. The elements should do 1500-2000 hrs between replacement - OR, there is no reason you couldn't (carefully) wash them a few times and reuse them. You just need to be careful what solvents you use on them.

[tweak'e]

did a bit of test on my catch can.
i took the can to inlet pipe off (blocked the air inlet side of course) and run the breather with the can outlet open to the air. not legal in AU but ok in NZ

no mist at all came out, no oil formed in engine bay even on the pipes directly above the outlet.
however every time i stopped i could smell oil.
opened the bonnet for a look and i just happened to get the light in just the right angle to be able to see a very very fine mist of oil pouring out of the catch can. by the time it got past the bonnet the cloud of mist was 1m or so wide.
i guess not the best thing to be breathing in.

other small thing was the catch can was very hot. when connected to air intake its a lot cooler.

[Turboshop]

http://www.turboshop.com.au/oil-breather-systems
Hi guys great forum, I have just joined. I won't get too into detail, just thought you guys might like to have a look at my oil air seperators. They have a complex maze of baffels inside and gravity does the rest. We have run them on 700hp+ rb26's with very good results

[tweak'e]

http://www.turboshop.com.au/oil-breather-systems
Hi guys great forum, I have just joined. I won't get too into detail, just thought you guys might like to have a look at my oil air seperators. They have a complex maze of baffels inside and gravity does the rest. We have run them on 700hp+ rb26's with very good results

may be fine for race car but useless for these engines. oil mist will just blow through as already explained previously. baffles just don't work unless its large clumps of oil being spat out of the breather.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

http://www.turboshop.com.au/oil-breather-systems
Hi guys great forum, I have just joined. I won't get too into detail, just thought you guys might like to have a look at my oil air seperators. They have a complex maze of baffels inside and gravity does the rest. We have run them on 700hp+ rb26's with very good results

Some internal pics would be good. Not sure about this complrx path bit. A rapid change of direction would help pull out the larger bits maybe. I reckon lower gas speeds are needed if you want to use gravity. Complrx path is not lpw gas speed. Largw void os low gas speed.

paul

[fester2au]

I?f you click on the additional pictures of the race spec one Paul it has a cut away side view in one of them but as mentioned nothing in there looked like it would make enough difference to hail the design for turbo diesel use.

[Turboshop]

As I said not to get too tech... We have used them on 3 ltr motors as well. I have a cut away model somewhere, I'll get some pics, there are large voids, deflector plates, direction changes and then the flow must go up and back through a u shaped tube. Funny that some would asume straight away that these don't work. I'm not guessing I've been building these for years. The trick is the deflector or splater plates and their angles and spacing. I have done alot of testing in this area, I wouldn't manufacture such high quality oil air seperators if they were not tested and proven.

[Turboshop]

[/img]



Not actually the one I was looking for but this is an unfinished tank, there are 3 more deflector plates to go in yet. There is a drain hole in the bottom of the pipes and sometimes we fill the tubes with steel wool.[/img]

[tweak'e]

As I said not to get too tech... We have used them on 3 ltr motors as well. I have a cut away model somewhere, I'll get some pics, there are large voids, deflector plates, direction changes and then the flow must go up and back through a u shaped tube. Funny that some would asume straight away that these don't work. I'm not guessing I've been building these for years. The trick is the deflector or splater plates and their angles and spacing. I have done alot of testing in this area, I wouldn't manufacture such high quality oil air seperators if they were not tested and proven.

problem is there is nothing to splatter. oil mist doesn't splatter, its held in suspension. it just flows around baffles and doesn't settle out. the baffles get wet but doesn't catch much oil. you need massive amount of surface area which is why the pot scrubber ones work okish.
the breather filters you have on there would catch the bulk of the oil.

be interesting to see one in action. i would bet that if you disconnect the hose to the motor inlet and take the filter off the can, you will see the oil mist pouring out of it.
only real advantage of those cans is they are big. gives the gases time to cool down so the oil will condense.

not to sure where you have the breather inlet and outlet to intake, they look like both go to the same space in the can which makes the can completely pointless, but i can't really tell in those pics.

[Turboshop]

The inlet outlets are not even drilled on that system at that stage which I'm guessing is what has made your asumptions misguided. Have you ever built one of these mate? I have made ALOT of different oil air seperators, so I can't see how ur unproven theories can costitute telling someone who has tested many systems and developed some that work very well, that he is wrong. Show use some pics of systems u have built? Then I'm open to constuctive crit.... I don't mean to be rude I just don't want to expend time proving search engine fact finders wrong (not saying u are one) Anyways I only posted orginaly to give people so ideas for there own systems. If you are having troubles with your oil breathing I'll build u a system Which I will guarantee.

[KiwiBacon]

The inlet outlets are not even drilled on that system at that stage which I'm guessing is what has made your asumptions misguided. Have you ever built one of these mate? I have made ALOT of different oil air seperators, so I can't see how ur unproven theories can costitute telling someone who has tested many systems and developed some that work very well, that he is wrong. Show use some pics of systems u have built? Then I'm open to constuctive crit.... I don't mean to be rude I just don't want to expend time proving search engine fact finders wrong (not saying u are one) Anyways I only posted orginaly to give people so ideas for there own systems. If you are having troubles with your oil breathing I'll build u a system Which I will guarantee.

I'm afraid what works to stop an RB26DETT from emptying it's sump is quite different to what is needed for a turbo diesel which is on boost for the majority of it's life.

The best way to avoid negative feedback on your design would be to have kept it out of this thread. The baffle type designs are not held in high regard.

[Turboshop]

Did u not read the part where I said I have made systems for 3ltr motors too? (ie turbo diesel's the engine in question in this thread) just like I though, you have never made one of the systems have you? I have, my systems are tested and proven. You can't just read about this stuff and know everything. Good luck anyways mate.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Internet forums never change......

[tweak'e]

gee don't take it to darn personally.

yes i have made my own. tried a few different designs. i'm well used to catch cans due to a certain toyota thats notorious for blowby and poor baffle design in the rocker cover.

the empty can failed big time. a couple of baffle setup also failed. lack of surface area is the big problem and that oil mist just doesn't cling to a surface all that well. pot scrubbers combined with baffles was a bit better but still not great. foam wasn't much better.
so far best one i've made uses a breather filter inside the can as a filter on the breather side. no trace of oil in the outlet.
however as mentioned in this thread its a poor filter which indeed does let oil through, you just can't see it.

i've seen hundreds of designs and there outcomes, from steel wool to centrifuge to foam etc. only ones that have been totally successful are the filter based ones.

so please excuse me when i say i'll believe it when i see it.

[KiwiBacon]

Did u not read the part where I said I have made systems for 3ltr motors too? (ie turbo diesel's the engine in question in this thread) just like I though, you have never made one of the systems have you? I have, my systems are tested and proven. You can't just read about this stuff and know everything. Good luck anyways mate.

This thread started with pictures of the seperator I designed and built. Maybe you missed that. I built it with a vortex because the baffle type didn't cut the mustard.
The vortex design worked much better. It's still not a provent but provents didn't exist then.

Given that nissan doesn't have a monopoly on 3 litre motors, you didn't mention diesel and my crystal ball is in for an oil change; I don't automatically assume that all 3 litre motors mentioned on the internet are ZD30's.

[ISUZUROVER]

[/img]



Not actually the one I was looking for but this is an unfinished tank, there are 3 more deflector plates to go in yet. There is a drain hole in the bottom of the pipes and sometimes we fill the tubes with steel wool.[/img]

That looks huge. What are the dimensions?

It would basically work as a settling chamber - as it is so large, I am sure it would work well at removing large droplets. If you are interested I could measure the capture efficiency across the full particle size range.

[hulsty]

I've gone and installed myself a Provent 200, was abit fiddly, main problem was getting suitable oil rated hose, ended up using some PVC hose, bloke at the shop said it begins to soften at 60c though. Time will tell.

Question is how do I set the pressure regulator? It is installed on a 13BT which is a reasonably heavy breather especially with the boost wound up.

It is setup with the inlet coming from the rocker cover, outlet to the stock intake inlet.

The oil line is currently just blocked off with a ball valve which I will monitor till I plumb it into the sump.

When I open the oil line valve there is a pulsing of crank case gases.

[ISUZUROVER]

I've gone and installed myself a Provent 200, was abit fiddly, main problem was getting suitable oil rated hose, ended up using some PVC hose, bloke at the shop said it begins to soften at 60c though. Time will tell.

Question is how do I set the pressure regulator? It is installed on a 13BT which is a reasonably heavy breather especially with the boost wound up.

It is setup with the inlet coming from the rocker cover, outlet to the stock intake inlet.

The oil line is currently just blocked off with a ball valve which I will monitor till I plumb it into the sump.

When I open the oil line valve there is a pulsing of crank case gases.

There is a valve in the cap which vents the blowby gasses to atmosphere if the crankcase pressure gets to high. This is non adjustable. If this happens then it is time to change (or clean) the filter element.

[hulsty]

From the literature I have read I thought it was the valve on the side that was adjustable, next to the outlet port?

If not I will leave it all as its set.

[tweak'e]

I've gone and installed myself a Provent 200, was abit fiddly, main problem was getting suitable oil rated hose, ended up using some PVC hose, bloke at the shop said it begins to soften at 60c though. Time will tell.

fuel hose is best, just not cheap !

[RAY185]

Replied in the other thread about the hose. It's called Oil Breather Hose and you can get it at Repco and hose specialists (enzed/pirtek, etc) in lots of sizes.

[+dj_hansen+]

Well, my Provent turned up yesterday (must say, sharp delivery as i only ordered it thursday night!) so hopefully i can get it installed in the next couple of weeks.

It is actually smaller than it appears in the pictures/literature

[ISUZUROVER]

From the literature I have read I thought it was the valve on the side that was adjustable, next to the outlet port?

If not I will leave it all as its set.

The valve on the outlet is just there to shut off flow if you have too much suction in your intake (don't want negative pressure in your crankcase).

Pretty sure it isn't adjustable.

[Hamo]

I ordered and payed for the provent 200 on monday afternoon and today wednesday it here in country vic

Super fast service from weston filters

Just have to work out the difference in the hose sizes and get some reducers and fit this baby up

[ISUZUROVER]

I ordered and payed for the provent 200 on monday afternoon and today wednesday it here in country vic

Super fast service from weston filters

Just have to work out the difference in the hose sizes and get some reducers and fit this baby up

The provent has a 25mm (1") inlet and outlet and a 13mm (1/2") drain. Most 4x4 and light commercials I have seen seem to use 19mm breather line.