Scenic Rim Challenge Final 2009 Round and Dinner 5-6th Dec

[11_evl]

just a few pics we managed to take

[11_evl]

more

[Suspension Stuff]

Awesome Pics.

[big wheel sigma]

let me get this right,
"modified"
33" tyres, upto 4" lift spring or body & spring lift and ONLY a rear axle traction aid, LSD or Locked.

why not front locker combo's, Std to modified isn't much of a jump to meet the next benchmark. just seems like a large jump from modified to extreme mod.

I know it's an all fun and games event, but in my opinion the bench marks could be more evenly apart. similar to what they are now and it gives people moving up in classes something to work at.
Like i said, its only my opinion

And congrats on series win, and to all other competitors weather you won lost or broke stuff, its about getting out there and and having fun
I did even if i rolled my car outside the comp

[P@nda]

It was a top weekend and the best Challenge so
far. I noticed there were a few cars in my class
(standard) that had lockers... and used them.

When it comes down to it, its a bitta fun
and we're not battling it out for sheep stations, which
is half the reason why I keep coming back to the
Challenge Days.

Just a thanks to Brendan, and everyone who helped out
on the weekend. Did a great job and keen for the next one (if
the zook is back in one piece by then )

[OIIIO]

Std to modified isn't much of a jump to meet the next benchmark. just seems like a large jump from modified to extreme mod.

Standard to Modified = 4" lift, 33's and a rear locker
Modified to Extreme Mod = 2" more lift, 35's and a front locker
Extreme Mod to Outlaw = what ever you want..........

I reckon there's enough of a difference between the class's, and it's a progressive logical next step as far as mods go..

[AngryElmo]

let me get this right,
"modified"
33" tyres, upto 4" lift spring or body & spring lift and ONLY a rear axle traction aid, LSD or Locked.

why not front locker combo's, Std to modified isn't much of a jump to meet the next benchmark. just seems like a large jump from modified to extreme mod.

I know it's an all fun and games event, but in my opinion the bench marks could be more evenly apart. similar to what they are now and it gives people moving up in classes something to work at.
Like i said, its only my opinion

And congrats on series win, and to all other competitors weather you won lost or broke stuff, its about getting out there and and having fun
I did even if i rolled my car outside the comp

I can understand where u are coming from but i can see how it starts to become a different story when i have a lsd in the rear and locker in the front compared to most other who will have either lsd or locker in the rear and open front...... if u had a locked front and open rear it would be the same.

[big wheel sigma]

Std to modified isn't much of a jump to meet the next benchmark. just seems like a large jump from modified to extreme mod.

Standard to Modified = 4" lift, 33's and a rear locker
Modified to Extreme Mod = 2" more lift, 35's and a front locker
Extreme Mod to Outlaw = what ever you want..........

I reckon there's enough of a difference between the class's, and it's a progressive logical next step as far as mods go..

Look again at Ext Mod.... 2 lockers :?:and 4+" lift and bead locks

[big wheel sigma]

let me get this right,
"modified"
33" tyres, upto 4" lift spring or body & spring lift and ONLY a rear axle traction aid, LSD or Locked.

why not front locker combo's, Std to modified isn't much of a jump to meet the next benchmark. just seems like a large jump from modified to extreme mod.

I know it's an all fun and games event, but in my opinion the bench marks could be more evenly apart. similar to what they are now and it gives people moving up in classes something to work at.
Like i said, its only my opinion

And congrats on series win, and to all other competitors weather you won lost or broke stuff, its about getting out there and and having fun
I did even if i rolled my car outside the comp

I can understand where u are coming from but i can see how it starts to become a different story when i have a lsd in the rear and locker in the front compared to most other who will have either lsd or locker in the rear and open front...... if u had a locked front and open rear it would be the same.[/quot

Yeah but this year a lsd rear and locked front was OK. and a talking point on what was max req for Mod class. It was discussed a number of times with Shane. Am i wrong

[OIIIO]

Look again at Ext Mod.... 2 lockers :?:and 4+" lift and bead locks

What am I looking at?..

I'd say two lockers, 6" lift, 35's with beadlocks would be classed extreme by most people..

[OIIIO]

What part of class 2 is road leagal ? Are you guys going to build your car when you get there?? In my opinion that defeats the purpose. I have de-registered my car because it is not road legal, so that puts me in the buggy class... I don't think thats very fair. Just because I trailer my car shouldn't mean that I'm in the 'top' class.

Plenty of guys could swap on some 35's-37's (on the day) and compete in there otherwise legal cars.

I think the thoughts of a lot of people out there are that a trailered rig V's a daily driver is very unfair.. The daily driver has to drive a lot more conservative.

I guess we all have different thoughts on this comp, but at least we are able to discuss it on here, and the organisers are willing to listen..

That alone is a nice change

[AngryElmo]

Yeah but this year a lsd rear and locked front was OK. and a talking point on what was max req for Mod class. It was discussed a number of times with Shane. Am i wrong

ur right, it was ok this year, but if u have a good working lsd and a front locker than its just as good as two lockers, so really it might as well be 2 lockers makeing it ex mod. its 2 traction aids when everyone else runs one.

it looks lkike its being harsh but when u have drive a 4 wheels with the front locker and the lsd and someone else only has drive at 2 makes a big difference.

Its a pain in ther arse i can see that, i would like to run a front locker with an lsd but i dont have a lsd rear so its useless, remember that the winner of ex mod one with only a rear lsd so lsd is just as good as a locker. and in some cases better.

[Suspension Stuff]

MODIFIED
For vehicles that have an LSD rear it is a pain to have to replace it with a locker to get the best setup. I have argued this point before but after a season I have realised that it is unfair for some vehicles who can have an LSD and a locker compared to others who can just have 1 locker.

I know you can argue that an independant front vehicle is disadvantaged and I feel your pain but I think it would always be a point conjecture to allow a locker up front.

Having just the locker in the rear also means we don't have to wonder if someone is cheating because it becomes obvious if both front wheels are spinning.

Shane

[Suspension Stuff]

MODIFIED CLASS
What do people think about engine conversions, gearbox swaps, transfercase conversions, link changes(eg converting from independant to live axle?)

[OIIIO]

MODIFIED CLASS
What do people think about engine conversions, gearbox swaps, transfercase conversions, link changes(eg converting from independant to live axle?)

EXTREME MODIFIED................

[rockcrawler31]

What part of class 2 is road leagal ? Are you guys going to build your car when you get there?? In my opinion that defeats the purpose. I have de-registered my car because it is not road legal, so that puts me in the buggy class... I don't think thats very fair. Just because I trailer my car shouldn't mean that I'm in the 'top' class.

Plenty of guys could swap on some 35's-37's (on the day) and compete in there otherwise legal cars.

I think the thoughts of a lot of people out there are that a trailered rig V's a daily driver is very unfair.. The daily driver has to drive a lot more conservative.

I guess we all have different thoughts on this comp, but at least we are able to discuss it on here, and the organisers are willing to listen..

That alone is a nice change

I fit that description exactly. I turn up in a completely road legal car that i otherwise use for touring. (in fact i drove up from sydney to compete). I swap tyres, take off the mudflaps so they don't get torn off then drive it. That's why i got so narky at that damned tree because even though i'm in extreme mod, it's still a daily that i'd like to retain a little bit of decent looks on the road. A dinged to shit car will attract way more attention from the boys in blue than something that is straight and looks well looked after.

[rockcrawler31]

I also think that having a limo and one locker does not make you "twin locked" or "two traction aids"

Limo is something that comes from the factory as a virtually compulsory piece of kit nowadays.

The locker is an aftermarket (usually) item that most people "add" as a traction device. If you were smart or lucky enough to have bought a vehicle that comes with a limo that actually "works", then added a single locker up front, then good on you more power to you. If you bought a toyota and your limo isn't worth the paper weight that it is - tough shit. And i say this as a toyota driver.

I'm happy for people with a working limo and one locker to compete in modified class as i simply see it as smart vehicle choice.

[Suspension Stuff]

What part of class 2 is road leagal ? Are you guys going to build your car when you get there?? In my opinion that defeats the purpose. I have de-registered my car because it is not road legal, so that puts me in the buggy class... I don't think thats very fair. Just because I trailer my car shouldn't mean that I'm in the 'top' class.

Plenty of guys could swap on some 35's-37's (on the day) and compete in there otherwise legal cars.

I think the thoughts of a lot of people out there are that a trailered rig V's a daily driver is very unfair.. The daily driver has to drive a lot more conservative.

I guess we all have different thoughts on this comp, but at least we are able to discuss it on here, and the organisers are willing to listen..

That alone is a nice change

I fit that description exactly. I turn up in a completely road legal car that i otherwise use for touring. (in fact i drove up from sydney to compete). I swap tyres, take off the mudflaps so they don't get torn off then drive it. That's why i got so narky at that damned tree because even though i'm in extreme mod, it's still a daily that i'd like to retain a little bit of decent looks on the road. A dinged to shit car will attract way more attention from the boys in blue than something that is straight and looks well looked after.

The reason why I like the rules as they are when it comes to EXTREME MODIFIED tyre sizes is to be inclusive instead of exclusive. What I mean is that most vehicles stock drivetrain will not be strong enough for 37's. It isn't the Patrol/Cruiser Challenge.

Maybe we should tighten up the rules a bit in the Outlaw class so it isn't so hard core.

But then the Buggies would ride with the Tuff Trucks.

Shane

[Suspension Stuff]

Milo, you may be better off in the Extreme Mod class but just not going for the win. Excessive wheel spin would have to be policed while on dirt though.

Shane

[rockcrawler31]

MODIFIED CLASS
What do people think about engine conversions, gearbox swaps, transfercase conversions, link changes(eg converting from independant to live axle?)

EXTREME MODIFIED................

I agree.

If you follow the spirit of the idea, then modified is someone who has more or less just gone and put the bolt on bits in his car.

Extreme modified is where you've started doing fabrication, custom work that is more than just "in your front driveway" stuff. The engine conversion is a bit of a grey area i think. Obviously pulling out the 2.8 hilux motor for a LS3 with auto and STAK is extreme mod, but replacing it with a late model turbo petrol 4 banger, well, maybe not. Might go a bit faster on the road and have a few more herbs buy we're not talking OBC car there.

[Suspension Stuff]

I also think that having a limo and one locker does not make you "twin locked" or "two traction aids"

Limo is something that comes from the factory as a virtually compulsory piece of kit nowadays.

The locker is an aftermarket (usually) item that most people "add" as a traction device. If you were smart or lucky enough to have bought a vehicle that comes with a limo that actually "works", then added a single locker up front, then good on you more power to you. If you bought a toyota and your limo isn't worth the paper weight that it is - tough shit. And i say this as a toyota driver.

I'm happy for people with a working limo and one locker to compete in modified class as i simply see it as smart vehicle choice.

This comp works really well as a fun inclusive comp. Penalising every vehicle besides the Patrols, Cruisers and Jeeps isn't the answer.

Shane

[OIIIO]

[quote="Suspension Stuff]The reason why I like the rules as they are when it comes to EXTREME MODIFIED tyre sizes is to be inclusive instead of exclusive. What I mean is that most vehicles stock drivetrain will not be strong enough for 37's. It isn't the Patrol/Cruiser Challenge.

Maybe we should tighten up the rules a bit in the Outlaw class so it isn't so hard core.

But then the Buggies would ride with the Tuff Trucks.

Shane[/quote]

That sounds reasonable.

Another thought on the Modified class
What if Mod class was NO lockers. Up to 33" tyres, 4" lift LSD rear only.?
There are plenty of options from detroit/Auburn etc.. for aftermarket LSD's. If the one your rig came with is shit, replace or fix it.. easy.

You could also break up the OUTLAW class into buggies/bodies...
If it hasn't got say, 70% original panel work... it's classed a buggy????

That would give the guys who run bigger than 35's a crack at the harder stuff without taking on the Tuff Trucks and Buggies...

[rockcrawler31]

Milo, you may be better off in the Extreme Mod class but just not going for the win. Excessive wheel spin would have to be policed while on dirt though.

Shane

What's the point then? i may as well just go for a wheel. I know it's not sheep stations but the point is to at least have a crack.

I'm happy in extreme mod, it's what the car was built for, and i just need to step up in the driver skill stakes. As for panel damage, well, that's just a personal issue that i will have to address and deal with. The course and level of cars that i was competing against were perfect in my books. I just need to pull my finger out and finish and exo as well as come to terms with the fact that you can't build and drive to that level of car (competition OR weekend wheeling) and NOT get some damage

[Suspension Stuff]

Milo, you may be better off in the Extreme Mod class but just not going for the win. Excessive wheel spin would have to be policed while on dirt though.

Shane

What's the point then? i may as well just go for a wheel. I know it's not sheep stations but the point is to at least have a crack.

I'm happy in extreme mod, it's what the car was built for, and i just need to step up in the driver skill stakes. As for panel damage, well, that's just a personal issue that i will have to address and deal with. The course and level of cars that i was competing against were perfect in my books. I just need to pull my finger out and finish and exo as well as come to terms with the fact that you can't build and drive to that level of car (competition OR weekend wheeling) and NOT get some damage

Yeah sometimes it seems that Brenden hates us.

[rockcrawler31]

I also think that having a limo and one locker does not make you "twin locked" or "two traction aids"

Limo is something that comes from the factory as a virtually compulsory piece of kit nowadays.

The locker is an aftermarket (usually) item that most people "add" as a traction device. If you were smart or lucky enough to have bought a vehicle that comes with a limo that actually "works", then added a single locker up front, then good on you more power to you. If you bought a toyota and your limo isn't worth the paper weight that it is - tough shit. And i say this as a toyota driver.

I'm happy for people with a working limo and one locker to compete in modified class as i simply see it as smart vehicle choice.

This comp works really well as a fun inclusive comp. Penalising every vehicle besides the Patrols, Cruisers and Jeeps isn't the answer.

Shane

I was probably more saying that because it will be incredibly hard for you to police it. How do you know if the dude has a limo or not? how do you know if it's shimmed or not? You will have dudes with a limo who "claim" that it's factory and only barely works, when in fact they've had it wound so tight they can barely turn a corner Alternatively you will have guys with a toyota lim slip, that isn't worth the steel it's made out of but you will have to tell them that it's a traction aid.

Quite simply i think if you have a limo and you're lucky enough that it works then good on you. But a traction aid should either be a selectable diff lock, or an obvious after market locker like a lokka or a lockrite. Like i said, this line of reasoning actually works against broken bits racing since we drive toymota's

[rockcrawler31]

Milo, you may be better off in the Extreme Mod class but just not going for the win. Excessive wheel spin would have to be policed while on dirt though.

Shane

What's the point then? i may as well just go for a wheel. I know it's not sheep stations but the point is to at least have a crack.

I'm happy in extreme mod, it's what the car was built for, and i just need to step up in the driver skill stakes. As for panel damage, well, that's just a personal issue that i will have to address and deal with. The course and level of cars that i was competing against were perfect in my books. I just need to pull my finger out and finish and exo as well as come to terms with the fact that you can't build and drive to that level of car (competition OR weekend wheeling) and NOT get some damage

Yeah sometimes it seems that Brenden hates us.

i feel you buddy. i looked at some courses and thought to myself "that bastard just KNEW i had to drive a troopy under/past that"

[Suspension Stuff]

I also think that having a limo and one locker does not make you "twin locked" or "two traction aids"

Limo is something that comes from the factory as a virtually compulsory piece of kit nowadays.

The locker is an aftermarket (usually) item that most people "add" as a traction device. If you were smart or lucky enough to have bought a vehicle that comes with a limo that actually "works", then added a single locker up front, then good on you more power to you. If you bought a toyota and your limo isn't worth the paper weight that it is - tough shit. And i say this as a toyota driver.

I'm happy for people with a working limo and one locker to compete in modified class as i simply see it as smart vehicle choice.

This comp works really well as a fun inclusive comp. Penalising every vehicle besides the Patrols, Cruisers and Jeeps isn't the answer.

Shane

I was probably more saying that because it will be incredibly hard for you to police it. How do you know if the dude has a limo or not? how do you know if it's shimmed or not? You will have dudes with a limo who "claim" that it's factory and only barely works, when in fact they've had it wound so tight they can barely turn a corner Alternatively you will have guys with a toyota lim slip, that isn't worth the steel it's made out of but you will have to tell them that it's a traction aid.

Quite simply i think if you have a limo and you're lucky enough that it works then good on you. But a traction aid should either be a selectable diff lock, or an obvious after market locker like a lokka or a lockrite. Like i said, this line of reasoning actually works against broken bits racing since we drive toymota's

MODIFIED CLASS
To police I won't care what they do to the rear, we just have to watch the front so it is easier to police and a very good reason to stick to rear lockers only.
EXTREME MODIFIED
They can do what they want with either axle as far as traction aides go so we won't need to police this at all.

Shane

[Suspension Stuff]

I am going to purchase a few cones so we can make a medium track hard. It is easy to see a cone moving so easy to police.

[rockcrawler31]

I am going to purchase a few cones so we can make a medium track hard. It is easy to see a cone moving so easy to police.

Yeah, i might bring a few cones up next time too. So i can relaaaaaaaax

[Suspension Stuff]

SUSPENSION STUFF CHALLENGE RULES UP FOR DISCUSSION BEFORE THEY ARE SET IN STONE

I am especially wanting more feedback on the bits in orange.

1.Your team shall have a name and you are competing for the name so you can change drivers or vehicles. (A personal name could be used as the team name)
2.A marshal may change the points system at the start of certain stages.
3.Cone penalties will vary between stages. 20 points is a good place to start.
4.No alcohol or drugs.
5.Please bring your recovery equipment.
6.Please make sure your vehicle has safe recovery points front and rear.
7.If a driver feels that the spectators are in a dangerous position he or she can stop with no penalty and ask the Marshall to move them back.
8.Gloves should be worn when rock stacking. (Not law at this point but encouraged) Put the rocks back when you finish the stage.
9.Bring your first aid kit.
10.Bring your fire extinguisher.
11.It is safer if the Navigator has a bicycle helmet in case he or she slips. (Not law but encouraged)
12.Don't touch the vehicle while it is moving.
13.You must not have anything loose in the vehicle unless you have a decent cargo barrier. You can dump your stuff at the beginning of a stage.
14.If you dominate a series you may be asked to step up to the next class or you can make yourself illegible to win the prizes for the next season and stay in the lower class.
15.You must have roof protection, either 3mm aluminium or 2mm steel sheet or high impact plastic roof panel, eg something to protect you and the Navigators.

16.Generally winches are only required for recoveries however please abide by the following rules at all times.
Call clear before you winch
Stop winching to reposition winch damper
Don't touch cable when cable or rope under tension
Always use gloves.
Don't stand in front of vehicle being winched.
Don't cross over cable.
Don't touch cable if vehicle is moving.


SCORING

1 Point penalty for stopping and continuing forward.
3 Point penalty for stopping, reversing, stopping then moving forward.
5 Point penalty for rock stacking per 20 seconds.(Put the rocks back when you finish the stage)
10 Point penalty for every cone that you hit.
20 Point penalty for breaking bunting (You may be asked to stop if you are taking an unfair advantage) (please fix what you break)
30 Point penalty for missing an obstacle if the Marshal allows you to continue.

It isn't a race, you will not be timed.
If you are stuck for more then 2 minutes the marshal will call it.

STOCK CLASS

Maximum 2” Lift – 10 point penalty for every inch above
EDIT: 31" Tyres Maximum
Must be registered
Factory (stock) drive line
No bead locks.
Tyres must be legal for road use (Radial Mud Terrains not bias)
Standard links can be made stronger or replaced with a stronger part.
Body Protection ok (Front/rear bars/sliders/roll cages etc...)
There is a points penalty for tyres (10 points per inch bigger in diameter but the penalty may increase throughout the season so the guys with bigger tyres don't win)
Frequent series winners may be asked to step up to “street modified” or forfeit prizes for a while

STREET MODIFIED

Maximum 4 inch lift (including body lifts)
Maximum 33 inch tyres (as stated on sidewall, any construction)
(If you run 35” tyres you must be unlocked and you will be asked to stop for excessive wheel spin. You will also receive a 10 point penalty for every inch over 33 in diameter)
Rear axle locker or LSD. (Open centres ok)
No front axle traction aids
No bead locks
Mod plated engine/gearbox/transfer case conversions
Mod plated independant to live axle conversions ok.
Must be registered
Axle changes/upgrades ok(ratios, axles LSD's, locker choice)
Body Protection allowed including Exo Cages (Ladder Racks)
Stock suspension mounting points (Can be strengthened)(no coil overs or air shocks)
Chassis dimensions must not be modified between your suspension points.
You can shorten your chassis at the extremities but your wheel base can't be modified. These mods must be done legally so consult an Engineer.
Frequent series winners may be asked to wheel with outlaw or to forfeit prizes for a while.

EXTREME MODIFIED

Any lift (2” body lifts)
Maximum 35 inch tyres (as stated on sidewall, any construction)
20 point penalty per inch higher. (Bigger tyres may outlawed or penalty increased if it isn't enough penalty)
Any traction aids.
Roll cages ok.
Window nets necessary.
Must be registered.
If you have the ability to raise or lower your suspension it must not be used while on a stage (eg. Hydraulic, air bags)
Engine/Axle/Gearbox/Transfer changes allowed
Independant to live axle conversions allowed.
EDIT Beadlocks ok, so far anyway.
Shock absorber mounting points may be modified, (no coil overs, air shocks)
Chassis dimensions must not be modified between your suspension points.
You can shorten your chassis at the extremities but your wheel base can't be modified unless you have a mod plate.
Frequent series winners may be asked to wheel with the buggies or asked to forfeit some prizes for a while

OUTLAW

Chassis dimensions must be as standard between suspension mounts.
Any suspension but don't cut your chassis rails to fit it in.
Any sized tyres
Kill switch mounted within reach of driver and appropriately marked.
Must have harnesses, window nets and helmets and roll cage, internal or external.

BUGGIES / TRUGGIES

Cones may be moved slightly for frequent winners to keep the competition even from month to month.
Kill switch mounted within reach of driver and appropriately marked.
Must have harnesses, window nets and helmets and roll cage, internal or external.