BJ40 Full-floater axle stud question...

[falco80]

Hi guys, I've just finished overhauling the rear axle on my BJ40. I took the centre out and had it fully reconditioned by Difflapping & Repairs in Kedron here in Brisbane. The diff oil came out like a chocolate milkshake just after i bought the truck, so it's obviously had some water through it at some point. It was whining pretty bad too.

Anyhoo, i bought new wheel bearings, seals & new axle studs/cone washers etc to do the job properly. A few of the studs came out anyway while i was trying to get the cone washers loose as they had gone a bit rusty and jammed. Today when i was torquing the new axle nuts up, i had 3 out of 6 on the RH side never reach the torque setting, and just keep spinning. They appear to have stripped the threads now as i cant undo them either.



I was using a torque setting of 3.5 kg-m, which is within specs of 2.8-4.0 listed in the early Landcruiser chassis & Body repair manual i have, so what do you reckon is the issue? Dodgy studs? I bought the axle studs from Sunshine State 4wd in Rocklea, so i'm guessing they are terrain-tamer. Never had an issue before with any of their parts, so i was a bit pissed this arvo. Would i be better of going to the local Toyota parts place and buying genuine, like 80 series studs maybe?

I drove it around for 30 mins tonight carefully checking things regularly and it all seems ok. One axle nut still spins freely with the spanner, but the others are tight (maybe from the cone washers).
The 3.0L B diesel is stocko and is definitely not a horsepower hero, but all the same, would you recommend driving around with one or two axle nuts not at correct torque?

On a side note, the guys at Difflapping & repairs suppied 3L of Penrite Limslip 140 gear oil & a 60g tube of Molybond Formula 2.5 with the refurbished centre. They said the molybond additive is great with older gearsets as it sticks to everything like shit to a blanket. Is anyone using this stuff?

[Dannyboy]

Pull it down and fix it properly it will bite you in the ass when you least expect it. if you have decent tyres and lockers you will struggle to keep a good setup together

[crustybj60]

some good info here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-te ... issue.html.

X2 fix it right, or it will come back at the worst time (isn't that the way?)

cheers
crusty

[vk7ybi]

Pull it down and fix it properly it will bite you in the ass when you least expect it. if you have decent tyres and lockers you will struggle to keep a good setup together

Or when you most need it.. Bit like a winch in poor maintenance..

OTOH I have decent tyres, a Lokka and have had no trouble with studs.. I have twisted axle splines, but never had stud trouble.. IIRC 30nm is the torque value, its important to use a proper gasket rather than FIPG. I'd suggest you have poor quality parts, I have seen stripped nuts, but never bad studs.. The studs are made of harder material than the nuts.

Dont resort to using cap screws like is commonly advertised.. Collets when installed properly provide superior torque transfer than bolts.. Trouble is these days most FF axle shaft flanges have been beat on by butchers and the collet taper is out of round, and the collets dont make proper contact when the torque value is set with the wrench..

There is an ARP stud upgrade available, but with your drivetrain, I dont think you need it..

[falco80]

Pull it down and fix it properly it will bite you in the ass when you least expect it. if you have decent tyres and lockers you will struggle to keep a good setup together

Or when you most need it.. Bit like a winch in poor maintenance..

OTOH I have decent tyres, a Lokka and have had no trouble with studs.. I have twisted axle splines, but never had stud trouble.. IIRC 30nm is the torque value, its important to use a proper gasket rather than FIPG. I'd suggest you have poor quality parts, I have seen stripped nuts, but never bad studs.. The studs are made of harder material than the nuts.

Dont resort to using cap screws like is commonly advertised.. Collets when installed properly provide superior torque transfer than bolts.. Trouble is these days most FF axle shaft flanges have been beat on by butchers and the collet taper is out of round, and the collets dont make proper contact when the torque value is set with the wrench..

There is an ARP stud upgrade available, but with your drivetrain, I dont think you need it..

Yep, thanks mate. It was the nuts that stripped, not the studs. I cleaned out the tapered holes for the cone washers properly beforehand and they look to be in excellent condition. I smear a small amount of grease on the cone washers before putting them in so they can come out a bit easier when needed, hopefully. I put it down to the quality of the parts too, or lack of quality.

I put some new 80 series parts in just before I went down to the local Toyota stealership yesterday. Funny enough the 80 series cone washers are slightly longer than the 40 ones, so the axle flanges must be slightly different. I bought some OEM studs, cone washers and nuts from them. Damn, would you believe that each genuine cone washer costs $5.35!! Anyway i bought enough to redo both sides and have a couple spares. It hurt the credit card, but these parts should last a while now...

[hulsty]

Genuine is the way to go, myself though I went with cap screws, they are holding up well too

[scotto]

I've busted shitloads of non genuine ones over the years.
A wise man once told me when it comes to things like axle dowels and nuts and wheels studs and things ONLY use genuine.
Never looked back.

[crustybj60]

ARP is good. genuine is also good, but if there is an upgrade for similar $$$?

an up grade is always an upgrade.

i am finding that even genuine/quality aftermarket is FAR cheaper to order from overseas. really... waaaaay cheaper.

http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscom ... 37092e15c3

http://www.marlincrawler.com/axle/front-axle-parts

cheers
crusty

[dogbreath_48]

Are you sure it's not the stud spinning in the hub? If so it's time for new hubs. You could also drill out your hubs to suit 100 series 10mm studs, but will need to have the flanges machined to suit the larger cone washers.

[Z()LTAN]

If you want to make the rear FF setup pretty much bullet proof see here

http://outlaws4x4.com/?page_id=266/toyo ... onversion/

[vk7ybi]

How do you get a 10mm dowel in a 9mm hole?

[Z()LTAN]

hammer?

lol

[vk7ybi]

Precision engineering?

[Z()LTAN]

yep its supposed to be like that mate....

[vk7ybi]

I'm not convinced..

[Z()LTAN]

thats fine, im not here to convince you of anything.

Im just showing what i did on the rear of my car and the fact it has stood up to lifted/locked/geared/37's/turbod/driven hard for almost 2 years now

[1MadEngineer]

thats fine, im not here to convince you of anything.

Im just showing what i did on the rear of my car and the fact it has stood up to lifted/locked/geared/37's/turbod/driven hard for almost 2 years now

"As it stands anyway, the Dowels alone transfer drive from axle flange to hub… The studs and cone washers only seat home the axle so it runs true to the hub face." (quote)

sad to say you really should do a bit more research as this statement is not correct!

please refer to such articles as AS4100.

EG: Friction type joints subject to shear, and
combined shear and tension.

also your "fitment" of the dowels is not really engineeringly correct and you have far too much interference. Holes should be match drilled and reamed......

nice try but not quite right!

[Z()LTAN]

right so ill go and tell 100's of people that have done this alone and its solved their problems that it doesn't work?

U can refer people to engineering articles all day long mate but it doesn't change the fact that it works perfectly.

PS: That article says nothing about dowels...

[vk7ybi]

Perhaps you could get a job in Toyota's engineering department and show them how it should be done with marking pens, hand drills and big hammers.. Then while you're at it you can show them how to cut costs by using dowels and bolts on the steering arm to swivel housing interface, rather than studs and collets.

[Z()LTAN]

steering arm to swivel housing interface, rather than studs and collets.

Another problem area...

good idea dude...



mmmm my noob sense is tingling....










you dik

[1MadEngineer]

right so ill go and tell 100's of people that have done this alone and its solved their problems that it doesn't work?

U can refer people to engineering articles all day long mate but it doesn't change the fact that it works perfectly.

PS: That article says nothing about dowels...

so you have told "100's of people" that the studs do nothing and the dowels do ALL the work..... seriously???????
then take out all but 1 stud and leave your 4 M10 dowels in there and show us how awesome it is? You have got to be kidding... maybe you should learn something about the joint dynamics and why you are actually required to do up the studs properly.

[Z()LTAN]

Its been common practice on Toyota full floating axles since 1955 starting with the 40 series...

Maby you should tell everyone that what they have been doing for over 50 years doesn't work?

The truth is in the trying mate and i have had it done to 3 of my own cars and 2 of my mates cars. All of which no longer suffer from any stud sheering issues...

Im not saying that your wrong, on the contrary those engineering guidelines show you are correct.

But they dont say anything about the use of dowels.