V6 or turbo

[Evski]

After returning from the Willowglen site to Sydney this weekend, I was embarrased by being reduced to 60km/hr on the freeway home in my 1995 dual cab LN106 HiLux with the 3L engine. I love the vehicle, but the time has come to power it up.

Just trying to work out what the best option would be. The vehicle is daily driven for about 1.5 hrs a day, and I use it for a combination of hard off roading and touring as well. The 3L is in good nick with no oil consumption, blows no smoke but is just too slow.

I can get a Commodore V6 for next to nothing, and have lined up a conversion kit for under $500. I want to keep the vehicle manual as well so will most likely try to hang on to the standard 5 speed HiLux box. I'm a fan of the diesel as the consupmtion figures are around the 12l/100km without even trying for economy.

I would be happy to keep the 3L, but for the price of turboing it, not to mention that I will be stressing an engine with 240,00kms on it the V6 might be the better option. Also the 3L can be sold off afterwards to save a little cash.

I know this topic has been done to death, and I have spent weeks reading every post I could find. Just wondering what peoples thoughts are, and basically if there was enough difference in noticable power from the turbo to warrant the cost. I'm prepared to have a crack at doing the work, but will more than likely send it off for a drive in/drive out deal due to lack of time more than anything. The budget is tight as always, but I'm prepared to spend what is required to do the job right. Ive considered a second hand turbo from a surf, but would prefer peace of mind with a new kit (if I decide to go that way). Thanks for any input
Cheers

[berad]

What diff gears, n what tyres were you running, the only time mine is reduced to 60 is going up a big dirty range, eg great dividing and jimna range, and have you serviced it lately, not servicing a diesel sucks more power/torque out than you would think.

IMO and to make the v6 push that load up a range it will just overheat.

Can you wire the v6 loom to the car, get an exhaust made, get a new clutch, upgrade the radiator, etc etc etc, if not costs will soon add up.


IMO just turbo the 3l, make a manifold out of 1.5/1.75 steam pipe T pieces for cylinders 2 and 3, and use L pieces for cylinders 1 and 4, weld in a flange, pick up a cheap turbo, run some water and oil lines which cost next to nothing, and get an exhaust. So long as the motor is equipped with a pyro guage and is serviced well the 3L will deal with the boost just fine, you cant "lean" a diesel out it just makes less hp/torque, heat is the biggest killer. In saying that im bias against v6 motors haha.



As a comparison, my ln65 dualcab with a 3L and extractors cruises at 100-105 on flat road & small inclines etc, most hills that i come across will only slow me down to 90 and i dont change down to 4th, with 35inch rubber on, and has a top speed of 116 on private roads, with 4.88 gears, and 31's are fine with 4.88s also, goes like a rocket ship haha.

[brad 93hilux]

My 2.8 with 4.88's and 33's had a max speed of 145km/h and used to never drop below 95-100 on them hills... I had a turbo glide turbo kit running 10psi and ran great untill i started towing...

If it just to run to and from different 4by places, then just go the turbo but if you intend on towing trailers/ boats then go the V6...

Though the 3.8 is a thisty engine, do a search.... you will expect to halve your fuel economy at the least and if you don't set it up properly it is very hard to keep them cool...

I would turbo the one you have, will be far easier and cheaper... Conversions always cost more then you expect..

Brad

[Evski]

I'm running standard 4.3 diff gears with 33" tyres (which measure 32). I had two mates on board and a weekends worth of camping gear so a little bit of gear but hardly overboard. She is due for a service (which will be done this weekend) so I expected it to not perform 100%, but it sat on 110km/hr with no drama on the flat. Put it near a slight incline and it was all over... The Hume always kills my Lux haha

I have thought about changing the diff gears to 4.5 and fitting an aftermarket exhaust, but off road the gearing has never been an issue and for the money spent on the exhaust could go towards the turbo.

Coming from an MK Patrol I'm not after much power which has be leaning towards the turbo. I dont tow more than a tinny, and like I said I am a fan of a diesel engine. I just needed some like minded HiLux owners to set me straight.

[SCANAS]

V6

[flyology]

TURBO

[Evski]

Haha so thats three for turbo's one for V6. I should have made this a poll! I'm going to call a few places in the morning and get some quotes, so we'll see who comes to the table with decent prices. Out of interest how much am I looking at for a turbo install? There are complete kits on Ebay for around $2450 (DTS I think), whats the going rate for an installation and dyno tune? Not really keen on backyard tuning, especially considering the engine is probably in need of a tune up anyway.

[berad]

Shouldnt cost more than a few hundred for tuning, it wont be proper as it won't have boost compensation but it will work jst fine, it will just run a little rich when off boost

Fitting the kit, you could do it your self if its a complete kit, short of that, id expect to pay 500+ for install without the exhaust. You can do it your self without to many skills or fancy tools.

[Kitika]

V8

[Evski]

Yeah Ive read articles on installation and it seems straight forward, and something I would definately be able to pull off, just worry about the tuning side of things. I suppose worst case if I bolt everything on and if I dont touch the tuning, the engine will be running lean so wont cause engine damage???

[Evski]

Hmm V8 would be nice, but more than what I need in this vehicle.

[bad_religion_au]

Hmm V8 would be nice, but more than what I need in this vehicle.

if you go v6 you'll kick yourself for going it over a v8 in the future.

if you need less power from your v8, take your foot off the throttle?

[berad]

Indeed, you just wont notice much extra torque/power, fit a pyro and keep an eye on it, and get it tuned when you can.

[Evski]

Good stuff Berad, thanks for your help on this one. While big power would be great, the HiLux (IMO) isnt designed to handle speed. The brakes are average and it's a tall leaf sprung vehicle. I just want to make hwy driving easier, and I reckon after a big think and your advice the turbo will be enough to get me going.
Thanks guys

[berad]

Indeed it will be plenty enough to maintain speeds for the most part, its easy to do, minimum off road time, and with not changing a motor your not running into little bugs that all conversions bring.

[Evski]

Would a clutch upgrade be something which needs to be factored into the conversion? While of course it depends on the condition of the current clutch, I would like to factor in the cost in case it dies a little down the track, as you mentioned the less time off the road, the better.

[thehanko]

I'm running standard 4.3 diff gears with 33" tyres (which measure 32). I had two mates on board and a weekends worth of camping gear so a little bit of gear but hardly overboard. She is due for a service (which will be done this weekend) so I expected it to not perform 100%, but it sat on 110km/hr with no drama on the flat. Put it near a slight incline and it was all over... The Hume always kills my Lux haha

I have thought about changing the diff gears to 4.5 and fitting an aftermarket exhaust, but off road the gearing has never been an issue and for the money spent on the exhaust could go towards the turbo.

Coming from an MK Patrol I'm not after much power which has be leaning towards the turbo. I dont tow more than a tinny, and like I said I am a fan of a diesel engine. I just needed some like minded HiLux owners to set me straight.

3L with a turbo will do better than 60 on the hume hills towing 1.5 tonne.

I tow on the hume a bit and a few of the big hills will bring you back to say 70, but most are 90+ and what ever on the flats.

without the trailer i can do 100+ pretty much everywhere except for massive hills a slight incline like you mention it doesnt care about at all.

thats with 10 psi through a surf turbo.

dont dismiss them totally rebuilds are cheap you can diy with a kit for $150.

there is also a guy selling 2 good ones on this forum i think 450 each. but you do need the rest of the kit, but having the good turbo is the key.

I would turbo over v6 every day of the week. the hilux v6 conversion is too hit and miss with a number of issues which regularly pop up. its not to say it cant be done well but its harder than simply straping on a surf set up.

as for tuning, I did my own with a auber instruments pyro guage and its been great good ecconomy and very drivable.

personally i think the surf turbo is the best mod that can be made to the 3L hilux. can be done well for under a grand and offers good results.

aftermarket guys swear theirs will give better results which it may but it will cost 3-4 times as much.

either way turbo it and never look back!

[-Nemesis-]

An aging Commodore V6 will give you a weekly list of niggly things to 'fix', compared to the 3L. Food for thought.


My runner never goes under 110 going up the big hills, towing a 1.8t van

[dans-paj92]

Turbo it.
My 4runner will sit on 120km/h easily on the highway. Can stay in 5th gear on big hills.
I used to have a 3Y petty motor in my car and had to drive 4th gear basically to willowglen, but happily stayed in 5th gear on the way home from willowglen.
But that was still 100km/h in 4th.
Thats with 35s and 4.88s.
Turbo will make a HUGE difference, my 2L was a struggle to get it over 100km/h on the longest flat and it would be sitting over 3000rpm.
If you want more power from the turbo, just turn up the boost and/or intercooler it.
Cheers
Dan

[bad_religion_au]

Good stuff Berad, thanks for your help on this one. While big power would be great, the HiLux (IMO) isnt designed to handle speed. The brakes are average and it's a tall leaf sprung vehicle

ummm what's that got to do with the price of tea in china? 110k's an hour with a load is the same speed no matter if it's being driven by a 400kw v8 or 2 hamsters on a wheel. the forces the brakes are working against are the same. the cornering forces are the same. what's the engine output got to do with anything?

brakes should be more than "average" if your towing with it anyway.

[berad]

Being able to do 160k n hour is harder to stop and keep on the road, accelerating at a greater rate is also harder to control??

I guess thats what hes getting at, that is my opinion anyway.

[Evski]

Yeah thats right berad. I dont think HiLux's should be able to go that fast without significat upgrades. I'm after a little 'assistance' that is all. Also I mentioned I dont really tow much, maybe a 200kg tinny once in a while. So what does towing have to do with the price of tea in china

A V8 is more than I need, especially in a daily. The MK Patrol I'm about to build up is a different story all together...

[thehanko]

So what does towing have to do with the price of tea in china

how a vehicle deals with towing tells you how it will deal with load, i.e gear or hills.

as you said its not its flat road speed you arew chasing so much as the ability to deal with gear and hills - i.e load.

a turbo will sort it out perfectly for what your after. it alters a 3l from a hard to kill engine which is frustrating to drive into a hard to kill engine which is perfectly livable.

[Evski]

Sounds good to me. Has anyone bothered with intercooling, or is that mainly for the guys wanting to run big boost? I'm happy with the 8-10psi mark so wont be asking too much from it really.

[Wooks]

If the 3lt 6 is good the turbo would be the better option. commie V6 is a good engine but they can give you real headaches in the early stages (as I am experiencing now). But then again turbo's can be unreliable too.

With that in mind why not look at a supercharger? No lag and more reliable.

[Lux_89]

who the f supercharges a diesel.. not many. Thats for a reason.

I would turbs the diesel.. Commonhore motors are piles of shit imho. If you want a lil more power/no turbo, look into a 3rz. Id honestly go a v8 if you do decide engine transplat.. either 4cyl or 8cyl i recon. Most six's that ive seen used always have issues as stated, ive seen far more v8s without problems. A good option in the holden is the inj 5 litre if you do decide v8, cheap and good thrash factor.. However, what you've stated above, id go the turbo 2.8, will be perfect powerr/reliabilty for what your doing! Happy boosting.. Oh, n i recently did one, non intercooled for 600 bucks.. cheap as.

[chocko]

The CT20 off a 2.4LTE works well. Try to get all of the bits off a donor engine - just makes it easier. The only pain in the arse can be hooking up the oil drain but there are a few solutions for that.

Also, pay some attention to your cooling system. On full throttle/boost the engine will generate more heat. Recommend you fit a good EGT and boost gauges to keep an eye on what's going on.

And if you are patient, it shouldn't cost too much. I got lucky and bought a complete Surf for $70.00. The motor had a buggered big end but a near new turbo on it. Next most expensive bit was the exhaust - 2 1/2" system cost $350.00. Even so, shouldn't cost much more than a grand if you have the time to look around for a donor engine with all of the bits on it.

[Evski]

So the general vibe here is not to bother with buying an off the shelf kit but rather grab the surf set up. I'm happy to spend the $2500 or so for a kit, but then again I'm more than happy to save $1500 as well.

Ive heard that the CT20 usually needs rebuilding around the 100, 00km mark, does that sound about right? For peace of mind I would rebuild the turbo regardless of condition, bringing the cost up (will have to pay for it, never rebuilt a turbo)

Also I noticed on Ebay there are cheap brand new CT20's for around the $400-500 mark. I doubt these would be genuine, but should I look into these. All that would be required then is a few parts from a surf. Probably opened a can of worms here, but has anyone had good results with those cheap turbo's? Thanks everyone for taking the time to contribute!

[chocko]

Stick with the genuine CT20. If you buy the bits off a donor engine you are going to be paying for it anyway. If it hasn't had a major then they don't cost that much to rebuuild.

[-Nemesis-]

I've yet to hear anything good about the cheap 'new' chinese turbo's...