Tough Tracks 2010 - Round 1

[johnsy86]

i support change to 40s and maybe a few more to try and keep everyone happy

[big red]

Don't forget Tough Tracks was designed to be for ROAD REGISTERED vehicles. [with allowance for suspension and tyres]

"theoretically" you should be able to drive your truck to the comp, bolt on bigger springs and tyres and compete.

insurance costs will kill any chance of unregistered vehicles because who wants to pay over a grand each to enter ?

therefore you need to keep in mind that its a comp for registered vehicles

Maybe what you need is to start a new comp in Qld along the lines of Tuff Truck ???
that would be good to see but would there be enough trucks?

[WICKED]

Don't forget Tough Tracks was designed to be for ROAD REGISTERED vehicles. [with allowance for suspension and tyres]

"theoretically" you should be able to drive your truck to the comp, bolt on bigger springs and tyres and compete.

insurance costs will kill any chance of unregistered vehicles because who wants to pay over a grand each to enter ?

therefore you need to keep in mind that its a comp for registered vehicles

Maybe what you need is to start a new comp in Qld along the lines of Tuff Truck ???
that would be good to see but would there be enough trucks?

Wat insurance did xrcc have? We rock? Wat about mud drags? Xwc?

Regos doesnt mean diddly, shannons personal insurance is wat rego claims too be and is around the same cost as 4cyl rego

[huub]

Don't forget Tough Tracks was designed to be for ROAD REGISTERED vehicles. [with allowance for suspension and tyres]

"theoretically" you should be able to drive your truck to the comp, bolt on bigger springs and tyres and compete.

insurance costs will kill any chance of unregistered vehicles because who wants to pay over a grand each to enter ?

therefore you need to keep in mind that its a comp for registered vehicles

Maybe what you need is to start a new comp in Qld along the lines of Tuff Truck ???
that would be good to see but would there be enough trucks?

not having a go but how does Senic Rim do it without the 1000 dollar tag
maybee its time to look at diferent insurance

[WICKED]

Just to be clear, I'm not trying too start a fight or an argument. I was trying to advance the class/sport. There are a fair few cars that curretly only compete a few tines a year and I doubt would say no to more drive time. My wording and sentence structure might not be the best, sorry but that doesn't mean I'm being ignorent or starting crap just illeterate.

[Willy Hilux]

If the 4x4 parks want us there, they should let us compete under there insurance. A lot of part were doing this in some other comps I'm sure.

[green4x4]

ben,
in reply to the chat the other day, you must be rego'ed, i've been talkin to someone in the know about 3rd party insurence, and i dont think that you would like to ( in qld ) injure someone let alone kill without your veh being rego'ed. it dosent matter about the mods at the time of the accident, also as i beleave some park insuracce dosent cover a rally style event ( which T T IS CLASSED AS ). also if you are applying as a business its different again, so maby just maby some should ask some more questions before before voiceing an opinion for all to hear on a topic that they know nothing of.just for the point of it the club uses a world wide insurence broker, but if anyone has a insurer who will cover this event for less, maby you would be a good sport and supply contact details so that we may also use their services( may get a spotters fee out of them too)


ALSO, anyone voteing on a rule change must be a financial member of tough tracks, and this can only be done once it has been passsed for concideration by the events commitee, and a insurence submission has been made, and the quote has been excepted be all members.

[Dover]

Ben you didn't bend your front tailshaft at Tough Trucks you broke it, two pieces means its broke. I think stepping up to 40's is fine, bigger is not always better. Any more mods will start to get into to much trouble with trying to police, maybe run the rule if you want to use diconnects or anything else you get penalized for it just like they started to do at Tuff Trucks for rear steer. Just a thought.

[WICKED]

ben,
in reply to the chat the other day, you must be rego'ed, i've been talkin to someone in the know about 3rd party insurence, and i dont think that you would like to ( in qld ) injure someone let alone kill without your veh being rego'ed. it dosent matter about the mods at the time of the accident, also as i beleave some park insuracce dosent cover a rally style event ( which T T IS CLASSED AS ). also if you are applying as a business its different again, so maby just maby some should ask some more questions before before voiceing an opinion for all to hear on a topic that they know nothing of.just for the point of it the club uses a world wide insurence broker, but if anyone has a insurer who will cover this event for less, maby you would be a good sport and supply contact details so that we may also use their services( may get a spotters fee out of them too)


ALSO, anyone voteing on a rule change must be a financial member of tough tracks, and this can only be done once it has been passsed for concideration by the events commitee, and a insurence submission has been made, and the quote has been excepted be all members.

Craig, I DID CONTACT THE CLUB AND COMMITEE MEMBERS I COULD BEFORE SERIOUSLY VOICING MY OPIOION.

Brett Thorpe, Gary E and other's have come to the club with the above info before and been turned away.

I was called today by a fellow competitor that had had a talk today with his Event Insurance Broker who thinks he can insure the event for approx 1/2 too 1/3 of the current Insurance cost, He is looking into it further.

Re the vote, Boyd L said (The other day when I called him, before posting) that voter's DON'T have to be club members but it helps.

I WAS just trying to go about it the right way, I'd have used the club site but last time I looked it was down Again.

I'm sorry for any and all "Inconvience's" Cause to the club by trying to further the Challange class and the 4x4 Sport in QLD. I'll leave it there.

Ben

[WICKED]

Ben you didn't bend your front tailshaft at Tough Trucks you broke it, two pieces means its broke. I think stepping up to 40's is fine, bigger is not always better. Any more mods will start to get into to much trouble with trying to police, maybe run the rule if you want to use diconnects or anything else you get penalized for it just like they started to do at Tuff Trucks for rear steer. Just a thought.

I twisted it, It was still in 1 Piece. We cut it in half with a grinder and welded it together by sleeving it with LARGE Thick Box Section.

Edit - Were are you? Done that disk yet? I wanna show people the vid! hahaha

[[gubeaut]]

BENNY, BENNY, BENNY, when you say further the class and 4x4 sport in qld are you SURE you dont mean further Your 4x4ing because you bought bigger tyres.Should've gone 37's no sympathy.

[RV80]

If you didn't have to be a finacial member of the club to vote then all the drunks at the pub could on what ever they felt like

[johnsy86]

Don't forget Tough Tracks was designed to be for ROAD REGISTERED vehicles. [with allowance for suspension and tyres]

so 40s shouldnt matter then

[pinkfloyd7]

Benny, Benny you miss quoted me in your reply on what we talked about, I did not say that any one can vote as it is in the clubs interest to listen to any proposal put foward by its finanical members and voted on by Members again finanical ones once the comittee has discussed the proposal. In regards to the insurance the club has and what it costs us , I have been through 4 different brokers trying to find a better price for the club to keep our costs down. Yes there are cheaper premiums out there but remeber one thing there is only one Company that offers the cover that is required for this sort of event, I would even go as far as to say that we at Tough Tracks are one of the only Clubs or event organisers that have the correct cover for this type of event. And that most of the events just run a general public liabiltiy cover which I would not like to make a claim on and the legal ramifacations should a serious injury resulting in a claim would result in. But if I can be proved wrong I will humbly apologise.

[XTREME MMM]

Don't forget Tough Tracks was designed to be for ROAD REGISTERED vehicles. [with allowance for suspension and tyres]

"theoretically" you should be able to drive your truck to the comp, bolt on bigger springs and tyres and compete.

insurance costs will kill any chance of unregistered vehicles because who wants to pay over a grand each to enter ?

therefore you need to keep in mind that its a comp for registered vehicles

Maybe what you need is to start a new comp in Qld along the lines of Tuff Truck ???
that would be good to see but would there be enough trucks?

Wat insurance did xrcc have? We rock? Wat about mud drags? Xwc?

Regos doesnt mean diddly, shannons personal insurance is wat rego claims too be and is around the same cost as 4cyl rego

Just a very quick one.

XRCC when running had insurance supplied by TCIS after a lot of work.

XWC has it own insurance supplied by TCIS.

You will also find that he who collects the money (entry, club/organiser) is also responsilbe as I would imagane the park owners who charge the admission fee.

I think you will find the insurance is a PL type. Fault must be found for a claim as well.

I also like the comment that went along the lines if you want change and the committee don't, then start your own event with the rules that you want to use.

Just remember there are a lot of people that WANT and very few that will get of the ar.e and do something.

Guys it is there sandbox and toys so if you want to play, do as they say.

Friday bitch over, you all go and have a good weekend.

Cheers
MMM

[Willy Hilux]

Ben, Just stick ya old ones on and be done with it. I would have bought 40's if we were allowed so if they went to 40's in the rules, me and a lot of others would be shitty as we stuck to the rules and bought the right size tyres.

[big red]

Your allowed up to 38.5" tyres ...
most run 37"'s
how many are running bigger than 37" tyres now?

[bowtie landie]

Some things that the club members consider when voting on rule changes:-
- insurance
- unfair advantage
- the flow of competitors vehicles through a track in a timely manner
- recoveries & the gear used
- safety
- track damage

40" tyres
- unfair advantage - definately - against anyone that can't afford 40s and has good tyres that meet the existing rules.
- track flow - quite possibly - the bigger the tyres the more torque that is required through power or gearing - more stress on driveshafts, axles, cvs, swivel housings etc. The more breakages - the more hold-ups. Competitors toward the end get shirty, Spectators get bored and won't return and then Sponsors become unhappy.
- recoveries - we don't have a crane that can just pick up a broken vehicle and move it to the side of the track so the next vehicle can come through. We usually have to use winches from official's vehicles to recover dead vehicles.
AND SPEAKING OF OFFICIALS - The officials make alot of sacrifices so that we can play. Track building, out on track ALL day, use of vehicles for recoveries etc etc. WHAT IF the Challenge Class officials decide that they do not want to official a track that is going to put more strain on their own vehicles and equipment, cop more grumbles from bored spectators & competitors, and is getting more & more like Tuff Trucks than Tough Tracks. WHAT IF they decide to drive themselves in modified class - or just watch. WHO IS then going to give up driving and take up the responsibilites and duties of the track officials to keep the Challenge Class running - or will it just fold and we will be left with Trophy Class and Modified. (similar to what we started with at the very beginning)

Other changes mentioned - front digs & cutting brakes have the potential to tear up the tracks making it unfair for vehicles following - and provide unfair advantage. Half doors have been voted on before and are considered by the majority to be unsafe on our tracks. We don't have specially prepared man-made tracks. We have sticks and branches that vehicles can land on when they take a nap. Half doors are out.

Tuff Trucks may be a lot better prepared - but it is run as a business that makes quite a bit of money from competitors, spectators & supporters and is only run once a year. It there-fore has far greater resources than Tough Tracks does. Tough Tracks is run 3 times per year, is organised by volunteers in a club, who only charge competitors enough to cover costs and make no money from spectators and supporters.

After careful consideration I will probably vote 'NO' for the proposed changes (I will listen to arguements for the changes though before I cast my vote). That is my choice - the same as for every other member of the club. Non members who are competitors in Challenge Class can make their preferences known - but it is up to the club members to vote on the proposed changes.

Peter K

[WICKED]

I know I said i'd say no more but this has REALLY got my going.....

Half doors have been voted on before and are considered by the majority to be unsafe on our tracks. We don't have specially prepared man-made tracks. We have sticks and branches that vehicles can land on when they take a nap. Half doors are out.

Are you saying a standard pre '92 door (which MOST of the challange class cars are) Intrustion bars), with 2 sheets of 1mm thick steel is safer than a door that's been cut down and braced with 42mm nb tube and box section? ?

I'm thinking about my legs when I ask that question. Ginger and I have both started running latched rock door's for this reason.

Every year the tracks get bigger and harder but the safety level never goes up. You can compete on 38.5 tyres, v8 dual lockers, etc and still have a 20 - 30 year old seat and seat belt. Harness aren't a rule! Would that Help insurance?

I was asking for 40's but throw the door's in as a lets ask properly, Respectfully. That's why I called before posting, Doing it throw the proper chanells, the right way. I tried.

After careful consideration I will probably vote 'NO' for the proposed changes (I will listen to arguements for the changes though before I cast my vote). That is my choice - the same as for every other member of the club. Non members who are competitors in Challenge Class can make their preferences known - but it is up to the club members to vote on the proposed changes.

Peter K

That is NOT what you said on the phone when I called You on Monday.
Monday you said that you could see it being good for the sport and that with the "Mod" class now you couldn't see a problem with it.

The ONLY 2 people that have stuck by what they said are Dodsy (has not posted) and Craig B.
EVERY ONE ELSE (Peter K, Boyd L, etc) Has gone against what they said too me on the phone and is having a go at me here IN PUBLIC. Why have they changed there stories?

[Rhett]

If you don't like rules benny, don't compete. Do the allterrain instead outlaw class

[WICKED]

If you don't like rules benny, don't compete. Do the allterrain instead outlaw class

I don't mind the rules. I asked about changing a rule, how too do it, how to go about it, who too talk to, etc nothing more.

Storm in a tea cup (gotta love the internet) But it has shown who's word can be trusted and who's can't.

[HeathGQ]

It's quite clear when you read through that Ben was not having a go at the club or anyone. He was merely asking the question. He got a response on how to possibly achieve the answer he was looking for, and has started acting on that. This is how clubs work, it is not a business. Rules can be changed if the support for that change is there.

TT, from memory, was started because "you want change and the committee don't, then start your own event with the rules that you want to use. " or something along those lines.

Being in a club, having been involved in the running of events, I can well imagine the effort and time the volunteers involved put in to let you guys have a competition. So I wouldn't be annoying them off too much.

However, what is seriously the difference with 38.5" and 40" tyres?

[[gubeaut]]

It's quite clear when you read through that Ben was not having a go at the club or anyone. He was merely asking the question. He got a response on how to possibly achieve the answer he was looking for, and has started acting on that. This is how clubs work, it is not a business. Rules can be changed if the support for that change is there.

TT, from memory, was started because "you want change and the committee don't, then start your own event with the rules that you want to use. " or something along those lines.

Being in a club, having been involved in the running of events, I can well imagine the effort and time the volunteers involved put in to let you guys have a competition. So I wouldn't be annoying them off too much.

However, what is seriously the difference with 38.5" and 40" tyres?

.not much more difference than between 40" & 42" or 42" & 44" when do you stop.
I do agree that Ben was trying to go about it the right way though possibly best done at one of thier meetings to stop all the s@#t you will cop on here.It's all fun

Thier comp thier rules.

[bowtie landie]

In relation to trying to get a rule changed, I also think that Ben is going about it the right way. He did ring me on Monday & I advised him to contact as many challenge class competitors as he could if he wanted to get support for 40" tyres - and I still stand by that.

It can only get changed by a majority vote. But after listening to a few other competitors I get the feeling that Ben has to do more to get enough support if he wants 40s to be allowed. I have even given Ben an idea as to how to try to 'level the playing field' a little for those that don't want to go to 40s yet.

My vote will not be as to whether 'I' want 40s or not - but as to what will be best for the club, it's members and the challenge class competitors - hence it will depend on the arguements for and against and the support it receives from competitors.

Peter K.

[green4x4]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Willy Hilux]

Now I comes to how much $$$ you have Ben. You can have my vote for a little in the pocket.

Na just kidding. Ya can have my vote for nothing. I don't mind the change. It's just like haven comp spec tyres. They're gunna have a little extra edge but this can make the people that don't, try a little harder and push their tucks to the limits, which puts on a good show.

So I'm not gunna be at the next meeting so it's a yes for me on the tyre size to go from 38.5" to 40" (or metric equivalent) max.

[RUFF]

Why did it ever get to 38.5" tyres if the biggest anyone is running is 37s? And what half decent tyre even comes in a 38.5?

[rocklux]

doesnt scotty run a 38.5?

[RUFF]

doesnt scotty run a 38.5?

He runs Boggers doesnt he? That would be why ive never taken any notice.

[rocklux]

thats a good point, u did say decent tyre.