Turbo- rebuild or replace?

[Sammyboy]

G'day, I have a 1990 Mitsubishi NG Pajero with a 4D56 turbo diesel intercooled engine. The turbo is a TD04 with an external wastegate. Apparantly my mechanic says that the turbo is leaking oil very badly, and I am wondering what the best option (and the cheapest) for me is?

If I go to a wreckers, I can get a second hand turbo (off the same or similar model) for $450 with a 3 month warranty.

For $100 I can have this genuine rebuild kit delivered to me:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Turbo-Rebuild-Ki ... 3ef765f409

If I seek the help of my experienced diesel mechanic friend (not a turbo specialist), is this rebuild straight forward/easy for us, or am I wasting my time?

I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest option for me before I go away this year so any help would be apprieciated.

PS- Previously in 2007, I had my fuel pump upgraded and my boost increased to run about 12 to 14psi...

[KiwiBacon]

Turbos usually only leak oil if the drain is obstructed or the bushings soo worn that it can't seal. This is accompanied by a big blue haze following your vehicle as the oil burns in the exhaust housing.

Checking the play at the compresor end will show you if the bushings are shot, if they were that far gone your turbo would not be working very well. Turbos are quite clear about dying. A dead turbo leaves no doubt that it's not playing the game.

Check all other possible sources of the oil before doing anything to the turbo. Presuming this is in your intake plumbing, it's probably the breather.

[bluemq]

Your mate will be able to do it.

I did one in the backyard and I barely even have a socket set to my name

[Rhett]

Let us how you go if you rebuild it as this is the same turbo I have in my zook and it is starting to leak a bit of oil into my intake

[wacky]

Heres a link with pics of a guy rebuilding a TD04 (9b) himself:

>> CLICK HERE <<

Scroll down a little, after the turbo snail lol - has some good info and pics.

Also, he did a 3 page FULL REBUILD GUIDE which is way-more detailed, lists what you need etc and has step-by-step pics. See that HERE.

Hope they help you out.

[thehanko]

ive pulled my turbo down before, they are not to complex and only go back together one way so i would be happy to have a go myself.

but as mentioned above - oil in the intake is not necissarily from the turbo itself and could be from blowby.

but if the oil is leaking heavily in the turbo you can risk dieseling on your sump oil which is apparently not plesant.

[Sammyboy]

I doubt that it is blowby. My previous 4D56 engine lasted just 97,000km since rebuild, and this was due to excessive oil consumption which was caused by blowby. It was costing me about $30 a week in oil.

The engine that I have got at the moment probably has something like 300,000km on it (unsure exactly), but it consumes virtually no oil at all. Early this year, I drove to Brisbane and back twice and didn't check the oil, but when I finally did, the dipstick had gone from full to just 3/4 in about 6000km.

Although my turbo is always covered in oil (even after I clean the engine), my car never leaks oil in the driveway, and it feels as though my turbo is still working (though not as good as it used to be), and on a good drive I can sometimes get less than 9L/100km (if that has anything to do with it).

I have also got the same problem (if not worse) with my 12HT Landcruiser 60!

[KiwiBacon]

The problem is, when turbos leak they leak inwards, not outwards.

Turbocharger oil seals are there to stop exhaust and intake air from getting into the bearing housing and down the drain. When you turbo is running (which on a diesel is pretty much always) it has more pressure in the exhaust and compressor housings than it has in the centre section. So there's a small flow of exhaust and air from the housings, past the seals and into the turbo bearing housing. This air mixes with the oil leaving the bearings and heads down the drain pipe into your engine crankcase.

The more your turbo seals wear, the more "blowby" you get from the turbo into the engine.
Your turbo will only spew oil out of the seals if the oil drain gets blocked, the engine breather can't cope or you give it way too much oil pressure.

With 300,000km on your engine it's not the turbo causing the problem. It's the turbo showing you that there is a problem.

[Sammyboy]

With 300,000km on your engine it's not the turbo causing the problem. It's the turbo showing you that there is a problem.

What do people think that I should be looking at to potentially solve this problem?

[bj on roids]

Is it flowing away to the sump properly? (Is the turbo around a foot higher than the sump oil level?) Some turbo setups need a pump to move oil back to the sump, if they sit too low, otherwise the oil cant get away fast enough.

What oil pressure is getting to the turbo? Maybe you need an inline restrictor, some turbos dont like anymore than 30 or 60psi of oil pressure, and some motors can put in up to 120psi oil pressure at idle.

Is your sump return big enough, does it flow quite well (backlog of oil left behind pushing past seals) Needs plenty of flow to sump even if the height is correct, there could still be a restriction.

Where does your PCV vent to? Blowby sucked into the intake, could possibly cause oil leaks.

I would say turbo oil seal, pull it and rebuild it, its not that hard.

[KiwiBacon]

With 300,000km on your engine it's not the turbo causing the problem. It's the turbo showing you that there is a problem.

What do people think that I should be looking at to potentially solve this problem?

Check the pressure in your sump. Pull the dipstick and put a low pressure gauge on a hose on the dipstick tube, see if you can bring that inside and look while you drive.

[Sammyboy]

I bought a replacement TD04-09B turbo and a 4D56 injector pump off ebay for just $15.00. I know you get what you pay for, but for that price I think that I can afford to have a go at rebuilding it myself. I found a really detailed step by step guide on how to rebuild your TD04 turbo, but it's an TD04-HL15G from a Volvo, not a 09B from a Pajero. Here is the link:
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpost. ... ostcount=1

I took the pipe from the air filter to the turbo off to check it out, and there is a small amount of play in the turbine, the replacement turbo that I bought has more play on both ends than my current turbo. What about balancing the turbo? Does anybody know how much it costs? Is it worth worrying about? I am a bit concerned that if I take the turbo to a specialist workshop and say "Please balance this turbo, I rebuilt it myself" that they will tell me that I have done it all wrong and that I will need to pay $750 for them to rebuild it again!

Now what about the wastegate? Isn't that what controls the boost level? I am talking about the circular thingy sitting above the turbo with a little metal pipe going down to the turbo. Is that the wastegate? I wasn't planning on doing anything to it, just rebuilding the turbo.

I am driving to WA from Victoria in September this year and I would like my car to be perfect. I am also planning on having my car dyno tuned in the next few months, so i'd like to do that with a fresh turbo fitted. Thanks for your advice!

[KiwiBacon]

I took the pipe from the air filter to the turbo off to check it out, and there is a small amount of play in the turbine, the replacement turbo that I bought has more play on both ends than my current turbo. What about balancing the turbo? Does anybody know how much it costs? Is it worth worrying about? I am a bit concerned that if I take the turbo to a specialist workshop and say "Please balance this turbo, I rebuilt it myself" that they will tell me that I have done it all wrong and that I will need to pay $750 for them to rebuild it again!

Now what about the wastegate? Isn't that what controls the boost level? I am talking about the circular thingy sitting above the turbo with a little metal pipe going down to the turbo. Is that the wastegate? I wasn't planning on doing anything to it, just rebuilding the turbo.

I am driving to WA from Victoria in September this year and I would like my car to be perfect. I am also planning on having my car dyno tuned in the next few months, so i'd like to do that with a fresh turbo fitted. Thanks for your advice!

Any related turbo guide will help. Follow that one and you'll be fine.
For balancing, if you keep the compressor wheel, shaft and nut in the same orientation when you put it back together then balance is preserved. Mark a line across the three parts so you can put them back together lined up and you're all sorted.

I imagine your scenario of taking it to a turbo shop is pretty much on the ball.
The wastegate is that actuator, pushrod and the flap it opens. It shouldn't be a problem to remove and replace.

[tufftruckin]

rebuilding a turbo is a specialized thing that should only be done by a turbo specialist as they need to be balanced when put back together. would be cheaper to replace it!

[KiwiBacon]

rebuilding a turbo is a specialized thing that should only be done by a turbo specialist as they need to be balanced when put back together. would be cheaper to replace it!

No.
Read the post above.

[MightyMouse]

Not too long ago turbo balancers were not at all common - most rebuilds and rebuilders simply relied on the parts being balanced from the factory.

Sometimes you'd strike a noisy one ( rotating the relative angle of the compressor wheel might help..... ) but most of the time its just wasn't an issue.

Balencing is good, and I do it by preference - but its certainly not essential.

Rebuilding also isn't black magic, about the only specialized tool i'd say is important is a low range torque wrench ( usually the 1/4" drive type ) to correctly torque the compressor nut.

Of course you need to be realistic, changing one seal in a clapped out turbo isn't going to be a solution to all its ills - but as long as the mechanically wearing parts are changed then its quite doable.

[hokey]

i think a bush bearing can be done in the backyard but ball bearing turbo's need to be balanced afaik

[KiwiBacon]

i think a bush bearing can be done in the backyard but ball bearing turbo's need to be balanced afaik

The balance is the orientation of the shaft, wheel and the nut which is trimmed. If you put them all back in exactly the same orientation then exactly the same balance is preserved.

As MM said, even a completely unbalanced turbo isn't usually a problem. Because all the parts are balanced individually, the final balance is only dealing with a tiny residual imbalance.

[Sammyboy]

In the next few weeks, i'd like to have a go at it myself (specialist job or not, it's worth a try). I might buy this kit on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... TQ:AU:1123 . There is also a genuine Mitsubishi rebuild kit from the same seller http://cgi.ebay.com.au/GENUINE-Turbo-Re ... 4aa1926dea .

When I asked what the difference was between these 2 kits, the seller told me that the top listing utilised quality performance components and that he could "GUARANTEE loads more than 20psi boost". I am pretty sure that even if my Pajero was 100% tip top and had the best of the best turbocharger fitted, I still wouldn't be running 20+ psi boost. I reckon that I am after 12-14psi (or whatever the diesel specialist tuning my car thinks is appropriate). Has anybody heard anything good or bad about this store on e-bay 'xaviar-au'?