Hi all. Long time listener, first time caller.
Have been trawling over the net reading 4x4 reviews and forums, trying to answer a question I have been asking myself for the past couple of months.
Should I get a new 4x4? Or upgrade what I have?
Some background.. I've been into cars for ages, but have only recently gotten into the off road fun. I've got a 2009 Hilux 3.0TD 4x4 that I've had since new. Nothing done to it. I bought it for work, and do sort of still need it, but more for advertising/site visits, not really to carry anything.
I have been driving trails, attempted sand/beach, mud. Want to give the 4x4 park a go too!
I believe that I need a vehicle with a much shorter wheel base, as my hilux's limit at the moment is always getting belly'd. Also the approach and departure angles seem rubbish.
I have realised that with some MT's, lift kit and lockers will change the hilux dramatically. But as this will be the case with any 4x4, I'm going to do this to whichever vehicle I decide to go with.
Here are the options I have narrowed it down too. BTW, I'm pretty much certain I will get a brand new vehicle, I just prefer it.
(these are in rough order of where I am leaning atm)
Suzuki Jimny
Pros - Seems like amazing value for money. And cheap to do up. Also, as this is so cheap, I'd keep the hilux as a work car, and do what I like to the jimny
Cons - Too small? I'm 6'3" and some have said it will be. Although I went and sat in one and seemed alright
Jeep Wrangler
Pros - Seems pretty good value for money as well. Heaps of aftermarket support and parts. Can get some big tyres on them (legally)
Cons - Looks plastic and soft, (even more than the Jimny) Its from USA, and seems to have crap reliability reviews. Also, seems for the size I would rather a TD, and the TD only come in auto.
Landrover Defender 90
Pros - Look bad ass. Seem very capable.
Cons - Reliability! Seem to read shocking stories everywhere. I'm not big on fixing things all the time. And my closest LR dealer is 400km away. (All other brands listed have dealers local) Also, doesnt seem to have a lot of aftermarket parts. If it wasn't for these cons I would be keen on the defender for sure.
LC70 ute or Patrol ute
Pros - Really jsut reliability.
Cons - Not SWB at all. And $$$ !
or keep what I have...
Pros - Its the easiest and possibly cheapest way to go.
Cons - I don't want to spend 10k on it, for it to still not as be capable of any of the above.
Also, I want to keep all vehicles legal.
Comments welcome!
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Which car should I buy? Or stick with the car have??
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Hey mate,
what type of offroading are you wanting to do?
just a thought is if you need a a nice new vehicle for work, why not keep the one you have? and purchase a cheap second hand already modified 4x4 for going to the parks and onto the beach and where-ever else you want the vehicle to take you, that way you dont have to worry about dints/scratches and breakages to something that costs a whole heap of money and you need to drive get to work?
now i dont know your family and finanacial situation so this is just a suggestion, but you can pick up a cheap 80 series or gq wagon with aftermarket modifications for a steal these days, and being a wagon will give you plenty of room in the drivers seat,
thats just my 2c, if not got a cruiser! haha
what type of offroading are you wanting to do?
just a thought is if you need a a nice new vehicle for work, why not keep the one you have? and purchase a cheap second hand already modified 4x4 for going to the parks and onto the beach and where-ever else you want the vehicle to take you, that way you dont have to worry about dints/scratches and breakages to something that costs a whole heap of money and you need to drive get to work?
now i dont know your family and finanacial situation so this is just a suggestion, but you can pick up a cheap 80 series or gq wagon with aftermarket modifications for a steal these days, and being a wagon will give you plenty of room in the drivers seat,
thats just my 2c, if not got a cruiser! haha
You already have a hilux and seem to like it.... Add some tyres, a lift kit and a pair of lockers and the lux will take you wherever you want to go.
You can always add aftermarket stuff like front/rear bars and winch etc which you won't get on any of the other new cars you suggested anyway.
Adding all the fruit to make a lux a very capable/comfortable off road beast will cost a lot less than purchasing another car, even a Jimny.
You can always add aftermarket stuff like front/rear bars and winch etc which you won't get on any of the other new cars you suggested anyway.
Adding all the fruit to make a lux a very capable/comfortable off road beast will cost a lot less than purchasing another car, even a Jimny.
X2 what Jas has said. Keep the lux, and mod it to a level that suits you.
Example;
- 2inch lift in rear(easy as, aftermarket springs).
- raise torsion bars to suit new lift(or even heavy duty torsion bars for lift).
- 2 inch body lift.
- all these mods should give good ground clearance and allow you to run larger tyres, 33inch tyres.
- front and rear lockers will get you anywhere you need to go, Ive also read and heard that the auto lockers work great in IFS vehicles.
- front and rear bar work, depending on what you get, should allow for much better approach and departure angles.
- sliders/side steps.
- low profile crossmembers underneath(gearbox crossmembers).
All this should be enough for ost people to get out and have a crack at some harder stuff.
One thing you should get for your lux though, if you havent already got, is: some rated recovery hooks and rated snatch straps.
Good luck and have fun.
Example;
- 2inch lift in rear(easy as, aftermarket springs).
- raise torsion bars to suit new lift(or even heavy duty torsion bars for lift).
- 2 inch body lift.
- all these mods should give good ground clearance and allow you to run larger tyres, 33inch tyres.
- front and rear lockers will get you anywhere you need to go, Ive also read and heard that the auto lockers work great in IFS vehicles.
- front and rear bar work, depending on what you get, should allow for much better approach and departure angles.
- sliders/side steps.
- low profile crossmembers underneath(gearbox crossmembers).
All this should be enough for ost people to get out and have a crack at some harder stuff.
One thing you should get for your lux though, if you havent already got, is: some rated recovery hooks and rated snatch straps.
Good luck and have fun.
MrsForby wrote: Oh I desperately truly love the taco.
Why buy a brand new vehicle purely for 4WD?
Yes, you could do work to the hilux but if you break it there goes your work vehicle.
I would suggest you buy another vehicle second hand for off road if you're really keen. Most things will be getting modified anyways so if there are issues these will be getting addressed anyways.
As to what vehicle, hilux are strong but finding a good one may be getting hard, I don't know. Less panels are good depending on how hard you go.
Yes, you could do work to the hilux but if you break it there goes your work vehicle.
I would suggest you buy another vehicle second hand for off road if you're really keen. Most things will be getting modified anyways so if there are issues these will be getting addressed anyways.
As to what vehicle, hilux are strong but finding a good one may be getting hard, I don't know. Less panels are good depending on how hard you go.
;)
I would keep it, read through this post http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic174683.php
And use it as a guide for your future mods.
Mark.
And use it as a guide for your future mods.
Mark.
Its not cool, unless it's got boost :)
I can answer your question about the JK Wrangler.
The CRD auto is the pick of the bunch for outright driveability and also I believe reliability.
Downhill is also good. Torque converter locks up in low range and while i have to be on the brakes on most hills I find its no worse than what I would normally be doing in a manual with a clutch anyway.
But if its for offroad use mainly bugger the diesel. I'd go a Rubicon with the auto. Yep it uses more fuel. Yep its not quick on the road. But in stock form the Rubicon has a larger Dana 44 in the front with an E locker, 4:1 transfer case and E locker Dana 44 in the back. The JK Rubicon Dana 44 aren't the usual D44 either they're a bit warmer than usual with bigger internals and bigger bearings. Added to this a front swaybar disconnect and in stock form the JK Rubi will outwheel anything other 4wd off the factory floor. I've gone the route of trying to make a Diesel Rubicon using ARB air lockers and I regret it (they have caused me more vehicle downtime than any other part of the vehicle).
As far as 4wds go the JK is the most suited to offroading. I can slide through tracks where other vehicles (including Suzukis) will end up with intense panel damage. This is a benefit of high sills, minimal body overhang and wheels sitting out past the body. Take the roof off and you can then use the roll bars to slide past trees - try doing that in anything else! Plastic fantastic bumpers and flares can take a beating and keep coming back for more.
All this good news has its downsides.
It is built in the USA by Chrysler. This means it may or may not fall apart and you will wonder if any quality control is performed at all. The diesel is a strong VM Motori unit and rarely gives trouble. The 5spd is a Chrysler 545RFE which usually lives behind their small capacity V8s and rarely gives trouble. They can be prone to water leaks both hardtop and soft top, more-so hardtop though as it has removable panels. The petrol auto has been known to catch fire and they have a recall current for an auto cooler to resolve this. All the gear in the steering is pretty cheap shit quality and can wear out very quickly - plenty of aftermarket stuff to upgrade it with though and alot of now available in Oz from local resellers.
The path of the JK wrangler is not guaranteed to be stress free but even when mine was death wobbling down the highway it brought a smile to my dial as in stock form it crapped all over my GQ Patrol wagon.
The CRD auto is the pick of the bunch for outright driveability and also I believe reliability.
Downhill is also good. Torque converter locks up in low range and while i have to be on the brakes on most hills I find its no worse than what I would normally be doing in a manual with a clutch anyway.
But if its for offroad use mainly bugger the diesel. I'd go a Rubicon with the auto. Yep it uses more fuel. Yep its not quick on the road. But in stock form the Rubicon has a larger Dana 44 in the front with an E locker, 4:1 transfer case and E locker Dana 44 in the back. The JK Rubicon Dana 44 aren't the usual D44 either they're a bit warmer than usual with bigger internals and bigger bearings. Added to this a front swaybar disconnect and in stock form the JK Rubi will outwheel anything other 4wd off the factory floor. I've gone the route of trying to make a Diesel Rubicon using ARB air lockers and I regret it (they have caused me more vehicle downtime than any other part of the vehicle).
As far as 4wds go the JK is the most suited to offroading. I can slide through tracks where other vehicles (including Suzukis) will end up with intense panel damage. This is a benefit of high sills, minimal body overhang and wheels sitting out past the body. Take the roof off and you can then use the roll bars to slide past trees - try doing that in anything else! Plastic fantastic bumpers and flares can take a beating and keep coming back for more.
All this good news has its downsides.
It is built in the USA by Chrysler. This means it may or may not fall apart and you will wonder if any quality control is performed at all. The diesel is a strong VM Motori unit and rarely gives trouble. The 5spd is a Chrysler 545RFE which usually lives behind their small capacity V8s and rarely gives trouble. They can be prone to water leaks both hardtop and soft top, more-so hardtop though as it has removable panels. The petrol auto has been known to catch fire and they have a recall current for an auto cooler to resolve this. All the gear in the steering is pretty cheap shit quality and can wear out very quickly - plenty of aftermarket stuff to upgrade it with though and alot of now available in Oz from local resellers.
The path of the JK wrangler is not guaranteed to be stress free but even when mine was death wobbling down the highway it brought a smile to my dial as in stock form it crapped all over my GQ Patrol wagon.
have you had a look around http://www.newhilux.net. have a look around at some of the mods you can do to create a nice capable off roader. look up mmaaxx truck.theres a big debate between long and short wheel base. personally i prefer the stability of long wheel base. ive had 2x GQs and 2x Gus. absolute awesome off roaders like the 80 series cruisers with little mods. i sold up and got an 09 dual cab for work and play. its got some lift, just put some rock sliders, transfer case guard on. and i swap the standards to simex extreme trekkers when 4wding. i go upto LCMP with it and im slowly finding my way with something so diff to what im used to. i dont do the hard core thing any more so i dont need a patrol, its more family based and still have a bit of off road fun. your hilux is still a better starting point than most of your other options. i have thought about a suzuki sierra with patrol diffs just as a bush basher that i tow to a 4x4 park but ive got enough crap laying around.
I thought the CRD was a MB derivitive from when Daimler still wanted chyrsler ?Yom wrote:I can answer your question about the JK Wrangler.
The CRD auto is the pick of the bunch for outright driveability and also I believe reliability.
Downhill is also good. Torque converter locks up in low range and while i have to be on the brakes on most hills I find its no worse than what I would normally be doing in a manual with a clutch anyway.
But if its for offroad use mainly bugger the diesel. I'd go a Rubicon with the auto. Yep it uses more fuel. Yep its not quick on the road. But in stock form the Rubicon has a larger Dana 44 in the front with an E locker, 4:1 transfer case and E locker Dana 44 in the back. The JK Rubicon Dana 44 aren't the usual D44 either they're a bit warmer than usual with bigger internals and bigger bearings. Added to this a front swaybar disconnect and in stock form the JK Rubi will outwheel anything other 4wd off the factory floor. I've gone the route of trying to make a Diesel Rubicon using ARB air lockers and I regret it (they have caused me more vehicle downtime than any other part of the vehicle).
As far as 4wds go the JK is the most suited to offroading. I can slide through tracks where other vehicles (including Suzukis) will end up with intense panel damage. This is a benefit of high sills, minimal body overhang and wheels sitting out past the body. Take the roof off and you can then use the roll bars to slide past trees - try doing that in anything else! Plastic fantastic bumpers and flares can take a beating and keep coming back for more.
All this good news has its downsides.
It is built in the USA by Chrysler. This means it may or may not fall apart and you will wonder if any quality control is performed at all. The diesel is a strong VM Motori unit and rarely gives trouble. The 5spd is a Chrysler 545RFE which usually lives behind their small capacity V8s and rarely gives trouble. They can be prone to water leaks both hardtop and soft top, more-so hardtop though as it has removable panels. The petrol auto has been known to catch fire and they have a recall current for an auto cooler to resolve this. All the gear in the steering is pretty cheap shit quality and can wear out very quickly - plenty of aftermarket stuff to upgrade it with though and alot of now available in Oz from local resellers.
The path of the JK wrangler is not guaranteed to be stress free but even when mine was death wobbling down the highway it brought a smile to my dial as in stock form it crapped all over my GQ Patrol wagon.
Saddle up tonto, its the not so loanrangie! . 98 TDI DISCO lightly modded with more to come.
Nope. Neither is the gearbox. These are common myths though.Loanrangie wrote:
I thought the CRD was a MB derivitive from when Daimler still wanted chyrsler ?
Chrysler use MB CRD engines and gearboxes in some other models - just not the Wrangler.
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/index.jsp The JK Wrangler uses the RA 428.
I would really recomend 2 cars as some others have. I have put up with 1 car for 5 years (a Sierra), which has had to take me to uni and work during the week, and I went 4wding on weekends. At times I would get caught out, and would have to borrow others people cars simply because I killed something 4wding...
So I would say keep your work Hilux. Then buy something cheap to be a bit stupid with.
If you really like the Hilux, look at a gen 2 or gen 3 Hilux. Not great in stock standard form, but an endless supply of aftermarket gear for them, and can be bought reasonably cheap, and most parts a doddle to find. If your keen on a SWB, look at an early 2 door 4runner/surf, still a longish wheelbase, but shorter.
You say you would consider doing this if you bought a new Jimny anyway. Only downside I can see here, is you say you want to stay legal, which means you'll be stuck with 205/70R15 tyres or only a measly 15mm bigger... I love both my Suzukis and would never own a bigger 4wd, but 205's on them is a tad frustrating
So I would say keep your work Hilux. Then buy something cheap to be a bit stupid with.
If you really like the Hilux, look at a gen 2 or gen 3 Hilux. Not great in stock standard form, but an endless supply of aftermarket gear for them, and can be bought reasonably cheap, and most parts a doddle to find. If your keen on a SWB, look at an early 2 door 4runner/surf, still a longish wheelbase, but shorter.
You say you would consider doing this if you bought a new Jimny anyway. Only downside I can see here, is you say you want to stay legal, which means you'll be stuck with 205/70R15 tyres or only a measly 15mm bigger... I love both my Suzukis and would never own a bigger 4wd, but 205's on them is a tad frustrating
Wheeling on completely wicked angles, without even looking stable.
For my 2c worth.. I'd personally stick with the hilux.. Classic shape, plenty capable when locked and lifted.. and easy to get parts for. If you do any looking around here for info.. check the build threads by one of the moderators called "twisty".. He's built and modded a new hilux already.
On the other side of the argument though. My brother has a small zook and all its got is 2 inches lift and a nice set of 30 inch mud terrains and the thing is almost unstoppable. It leaves my 4runner in the tight stuff but my runner climbs better. The zook will need a vast engine improvement if you want to hang on to it as the standard 1.3's are gutless as! The other side of the coin is that the zook rides so damn hard that after a days wheeling you need to go see a chiropractor! Your hilux will run a dam site softer and more comfortable than any zook ever could!
Just my opinion... Goodluck with it all!
On the other side of the argument though. My brother has a small zook and all its got is 2 inches lift and a nice set of 30 inch mud terrains and the thing is almost unstoppable. It leaves my 4runner in the tight stuff but my runner climbs better. The zook will need a vast engine improvement if you want to hang on to it as the standard 1.3's are gutless as! The other side of the coin is that the zook rides so damn hard that after a days wheeling you need to go see a chiropractor! Your hilux will run a dam site softer and more comfortable than any zook ever could!
Just my opinion... Goodluck with it all!
)
Re: Which car should I buy? Or stick with the car have??
<<insert gameshow "WRONG ANSWER" buzzer here>> BAH-BOW!diss7 wrote:Also, I want to keep all vehicles legal.
You're going to have a LOT of trouble modifying any new car to be capable and still keep it legal without engineering.
Personally if i were in your boat i'd leave the hilux alone and buy a cheap sierra, go nuts on it and use the hilux to trailer it to location =)
The worst thing about censorship is ███████.
Keep the new Hilux as standard. This is your business vehicle and is needed for your income. Turning up in a 4wd with caved in doors/scratches, or in a taxi is not a good business look.
Look in the vehicles for sale section for a plaything that you can modify/break/afford to have off the road for a length of time. Plenty of $5-10K toys you can buy.
Look in the vehicles for sale section for a plaything that you can modify/break/afford to have off the road for a length of time. Plenty of $5-10K toys you can buy.
George Carlin, an American Comedian said; "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise that half of them are stupider than that".
that would be my pick. also what do you want out of the car? something you can nudge a tree or rock and not stress about how it looks? something you can travel through the center of aus and know it will get you out the other side? something you can tackle the hard lines in and have a laugh at the end of the day when you are looking at one side caved in from a roll?DAMKIA wrote:Keep the new Hilux as standard. This is your business vehicle and is needed for your income. Turning up in a 4wd with caved in doors/scratches, or in a taxi is not a good business look.
Look in the vehicles for sale section for a plaything that you can modify/break/afford to have off the road for a length of time. Plenty of $5-10K toys you can buy.
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