The Welding Thread

[SteelArt]

Due to the increase in recent thread hi-jacks regarding welding we thought it was about time we battled it out in one spot

The taboo tac-tac

A question for you on the taboo tac tac ... does that mean that the welds on the diff housings etc are all tac tac and not continuos as suggested in another thread ?

I am just asking as I will be buggered if I can get a pulse look without tac tac and people keep on posting they do it continous and I would love to know how ???

Oh and I will post some pics tommorrow as it is dark and rainy right now and I don't have any with me

[brooksy]

Continuous style is done with a pause then move a 1/3 of the pool, pause, move a 1/3 of the pool, etc.
Simon showed it as the 2nd example in the first post. I must admit it wasn't one of his best but it still showed a good example. You can control the forward movement to give a better rounded effect rather than a Vee. But is more difficult to be consistant with holding an even overlap (this comes with time on the gun).
I rarely do it now mainly due to lack of practise & the preference for a more rounded overlap. Plus not easy when welding more complicated surfaces.




brooksy

[uninformed]

from what Ive read the gun GMAW's are doing the mig like tig continious, no pulse, no on off the trigger....seems they use a running writting 'e' , so overlapping loops.

check this thread out:

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=30845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

look for ZTFab....his stuff is machine like!

IMO i think unless you are doing this stuff daily and have worked on the 'Art' I would just get better (as good as one can get) at the standard methods first. your more likely to get problems with mig like tig if you havent got the basics up to a proficent level.... even with the setting just right a slight change in gun angle can make the weld not penetrate correctly...some thing that is more likely to happen welding in postion than on a bench!

Serg

(just a hobbiest welder at best)

[brooksy]

The "e" loop is a good method but is not always possible unless flat on bench. The thing is a lot of welders have a natural swirl action where required naturally.
You like quoting that 1 thread & Tzfab is a great welder but have seen as good by blokes on complicated surfaces not just plate.




brooksy

[uninformed]

care to look further into that thread and that site and you will see that offroad rigs are his main fab business and alot of his welds done in postion. Also he is not the only one, just a very good example. Im not here to knock those tht can do it well, but i think it should be pointed out that most that can have developed it over time and ALOT of meters of wire....probably not the best thing for back yard welders to try and imitate straight away......especially with components for or welded on a road going vehicle.

[Struth]

from what Ive read the gun GMAW's are doing the mig like tig continious, no pulse, no on off the trigger....seems they use a running writting 'e' , so overlapping loops.


(just a hobbiest welder at best)

I have never done anything but continious MIG, so I am not sure why you would refer to it as a "Gun Welders" process, it is how you are taught to MIG weld right from the start. There are many weave patterns that can be used in all sorts of positions and circumstances that AFAIK are part and parcel of basic MIG welding, not "Gun" processes.

Even today most workshops do not possess pulse welders, pulse welders have their place in very high end welding such as stainless steel pressure applications or large aluminium work.

What brooksy said about the natural weave inherent in most welders hand particularly applies to ARC welding where the minor fluctuations of the hand are amplified by the up to 12" of welding rod attached to the hand peace.

Most times with MIG it is usual to steady your left hand (for RH welders) on the job or some kind of resting apparatus to help better control your welding and avoid your hands natural tremours, and more so your bodies wobbles, from effecting the weld.


Cheers

[brooksy]

care to look further into that thread and that site and you will see that offroad rigs are his main fab business and alot of his welds done in postion. Also he is not the only one, just a very good example. Im not here to knock those tht can do it well, but i think it should be pointed out that most that can have developed it over time and ALOT of meters of wire....probably not the best thing for back yard welders to try and imitate straight away......especially with components for or welded on a road going vehicle.

Meh !! have looked & still doesn't change what I said & didn't knock the bloke so .........
Don't know why you insist on making the same point over & over. You are never going to control what someone else in there own backyard is going to do. Whether they try a difficult process straight away or use common sense & start from the beginning. It is the same in a lot of lifes things not just welding.


brooksy

[uninformed]

from what Ive read the gun GMAW's are doing the mig like tig continious, no pulse, no on off the trigger....seems they use a running writting 'e' , so overlapping loops.


(just a hobbiest welder at best)

I have never done anything but continious MIG, so I am not sure why you would refer to it as a "Gun Welders" process, it is how you are taught to MIG weld right from the start. There are many weave patterns that can be used in all sorts of positions and circumstances that AFAIK are part and parcel of basic MIG welding, not "Gun" processes.

Even today most workshops do not possess pulse welders, pulse welders have their place in very high end welding such as stainless steel pressure applications or large aluminium work.

What brooksy said about the natural weave inherent in most welders hand particularly applies to ARC welding where the minor fluctuations of the hand are amplified by the up to 12" of welding rod attached to the hand peace.

Most times with MIG it is usual to steady your left hand (for RH welders) on the job or some kind of resting apparatus to help better control your welding and avoid your hands natural tremours, and more so your bodies wobbles, from effecting the weld.


Cheers

Hi Struth,

what I was meaning by "gun" welders was pertaining to Mig like Tig. some do it by on/off the trigger and some will use the timer function which is similar but I believe the gas still keeps flowing. From what ive read and discussed this is not best practice for Mig. The "gun" guys doing Mig like Tig do it continuious in ALL positions. OK, if they are doing 1000mm run they wont do 1 continious run, but who would!

when I was talking to a recently retired cert welder (pressure/pipe), he mentioned that for most intentional purposes there should be NO weaving in Mig. Of course there are exceptions like capping runs etc.

Im not a cert welder, I bought a resonable Mig and started teaching myself, asking alot along the way, then did the introductory coarse at TAFE. The Teacher was VERY thougher and good. (to the point where the other staff would shit can him a little for spending to much time on each portion, mind you they would pass some shitty welds so every one got there little badge )

I agree with what Brooksy has said about people will still do what they want. But this is a welding thread and it can't hurt to put some info in it other than just pretty welds....(not that mine are any where near the standard shown.)

Serg

[SteelArt]

.probably not the best thing for back yard welders to try and imitate straight away......especially with components for or welded on a road going vehicle.

Mehh now I have finished work for the day I am off to the backyard shed to try and make mig look like tig ........ why because it is COOL ... and if you stop trying to improve and be cool, what is the point of having a welder.

As for the tac tac option from everything I can find in the web it is not good practice but as was pointed out earlier in this thread, as long as the weld is stronger than the material then it is fine.

By the way WTF is a backyard welder ? and what is imitate ?

[uninformed]

.probably not the best thing for back yard welders to try and imitate straight away......especially with components for or welded on a road going vehicle.

Mehh now I have finished work for the day I am off to the backyard shed to try and make mig look like tig ........ why because it is COOL ... and if you stop trying to improve and be cool, what is the point of having a welder.

As for the tac tac option from everything I can find in the web it is not good practice but as was pointed out earlier in this thread, as long as the weld is stronger than the material then it is fine.

By the way WTF is a backyard welder ? and what is imitate ?

Cool is Cool and like alot of things that are cool or trendy, doesnt make them best practice. You speak or improving your welds, is that look or strength?? because you then say it only has to be stronger than the material...wouldnt you want the weld to be the best/strongest you can make it (with in reason...i dont mean 20 runs built up )

backyard welder = someone (like me) that hast done it as a trade or been cert'd

imitate = copy....as also hase been said on this subject, just becasue it looks good doesnt mean it is as good. can be underlying problems with this style that arent as easy to pic up as traditional.

yes, yes, I have rubbed some up the wrong way. thats not my intention. people dont agree with me thats fine. Just trying to add to a thread

[Struth]

from what Ive read the gun GMAW's are doing the mig like tig continious, no pulse, no on off the trigger....seems they use a running writting 'e' , so overlapping loops.


(just a hobbiest welder at best)

I have never done anything but continious MIG, so I am not sure why you would refer to it as a "Gun Welders" process, it is how you are taught to MIG weld right from the start. There are many weave patterns that can be used in all sorts of positions and circumstances that AFAIK are part and parcel of basic MIG welding, not "Gun" processes.

Even today most workshops do not possess pulse welders, pulse welders have their place in very high end welding such as stainless steel pressure applications or large aluminium work.

What brooksy said about the natural weave inherent in most welders hand particularly applies to ARC welding where the minor fluctuations of the hand are amplified by the up to 12" of welding rod attached to the hand peace.

Most times with MIG it is usual to steady your left hand (for RH welders) on the job or some kind of resting apparatus to help better control your welding and avoid your hands natural tremours, and more so your bodies wobbles, from effecting the weld.


Cheers

Hi Struth,

what I was meaning by "gun" welders was pertaining to Mig like Tig. some do it by on/off the trigger and some will use the timer function which is similar but I believe the gas still keeps flowing. From what ive read and discussed this is not best practice for Mig. The "gun" guys doing Mig like Tig do it continuious in ALL positions. OK, if they are doing 1000mm run they wont do 1 continious run, but who would!

when I was talking to a recently retired cert welder (pressure/pipe), he mentioned that for most intentional purposes there should be NO weaving in Mig. Of course there are exceptions like capping runs etc.

Im not a cert welder, I bought a resonable Mig and started teaching myself, asking alot along the way, then did the introductory coarse at TAFE. The Teacher was VERY thougher and good. (to the point where the other staff would shit can him a little for spending to much time on each portion, mind you they would pass some shitty welds so every one got there little badge )

I agree with what Brooksy has said about people will still do what they want. But this is a welding thread and it can't hurt to put some info in it other than just pretty welds....(not that mine are any where near the standard shown.)

Serg

Yeh I get what you are saying no worries, and nothing you have said bothers me, people can say what they like but at the end of the day having a boilermakers ticket or a welders ticket does not mean you can weld.

Only real world practice under the guidance of good welders will make you a better welder and real world practice doing as many types of fabrication as you can will make you a really good welder.

Cheers

[SteelArt]

[quote="uninformed]
I have rubbed some up the wrong way. thats not my intention. people dont agree with me thats fine. Just trying to add to a thread[/quote]


If you mean me then jope .. I just hope that one day I can ZTFab if I even had one weld look like his I would die a happy fabber ..

[rockcrawler31]

Well i'll add my misinformed wealth of knowledge to the stoush.

I think doing a stack of dimes weld/mig like tig/pulse mig just for the sake of a "look" is horseshit. Especially if it's so you can "imitate" TIG, either buy a TIG or just get the bloody weld done well.

BUT.....

1. If you're doing it day in day out (like brooksy et al) and can get it done as quick as a straight run weld without all the faffing around because you've had squillions of hours of practice then great, do it because at the end of the day we're not just welders, we're artisans.

2. Like ZTfab pointed out, customers like the look and assume that it's a "better" weld so if it makes more sales, then so be it.

3. I've done it from time to time so that i can crank up the heat on the welder and get good penetration but also let it cool down momentarily so i don't blow through. I also have done it for MIG vertical up's so i can again get good heat without huge blobs of weld pool falling away.

[rowenb]

The step weld works on ally well, i found it gave better results when welding up a boat. Even when i wasn't using the double pulse feature on the mig i'd step it anyway doing buts and vertical ups etc. Double pulse is only available on some machines for those that aren't familiar.

[Shadow]

I would like some questions answered by the welding gods

I justy baught a WIA 325 Mig welder, 3 phase, remote wire feed etc.

I need to get some wire and gas for it. The last time I used a mig was in highschool, so i have NFI what I need.

I will be getting the gas through Supagas as our company already has an account with them for forklift LPG bottles.

Can someone tell me what the best gas would be to use? I will be welding thin metal(exhaust pipe etc) through to a max of 10mm, so would like a gas that can do all of that if possible. Supagas website has a big list of gas and appropriate welding material sizes, but I dont want 5 different gas bottles!

http://www.supagas.com.au/products/welding/mig-welding/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Would the Supa Argon 07, be ok for 10mm aswell, even though it isnt ideal?

Also, whats good wire to use. Obviously for welding thin stuff i will need a smaller dia wire, and thick wire for the thick metal. I would like to only buy 2 rolls if i can, ie, 1 roll for thin stuff, and 1 roll for thick stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Once its up and going i will post some pictures of my welds for you to all LOL at

[rowenb]

Just get 0.9 mild steel wire ( i don't know the grade ) and argoshield universal is the one from BOC. There's argo light uni and heavy but you shouldn't have any probs with uni doin any type welds you'd do. You can get .6 wire for doin thin sheet etc but unless you're doing it all the time there's no point and costs more.

[Struth]

Wouldn't hurt to set up with some 0.6 wire if you will be welding a lot of thin stuff too.

Cheers

[Shadow]

I got a spool of 0.9 today. I will grab some 0.6 too when im back at trade tools.

just need to get the gas and i will be right to bird shit some steel together!

[Struth]

Don't forget the tips and you may need a liner too.

Cheers

[hiluxpunisher]

Haven't attempted a vertical up for about 6 months, thought i'd give it a shot after reading this thread

noiceeeee

[Turboshop]

Tig welding 40nb merge collector and steam pipe bends for turbo manifold

[hiluxpunisher]

NICE work turboshop that manifold looks great what was it going on ?

[Turboshop]

Thanks mate, I do quite a few of them, the practice helps. That one was for a skyline that made 500rwhp. I still had to put 2 more runners in there, but have to weld the bit you wont be able to get to once the next runner prevents access as you go. As a few people have said, neat welds on flat surfaces are easy, getting in tight places and staying neat is the trick.
The guy who taught me to weld used to make me sit on the floor and practice, so that I wouldn't rely on the comfort of a bench to weld nicely.

Great Thread guys.

Love the sheet metal housings

[Struth]

Nice manifold

[rowenb]

I have just brought an old anvil made in 1912 that has seen alot of work and would like to pad weld the top to be machined so i have flat surface and square edges to work on. I'm pretty sure i need to use low hydrogen rods for this but not 100%. Whats the best way to do this?

[hiluxpunisher]

I have just brought an old anvil made in 1912 that has seen alot of work and would like to pad weld the top to be machined so i have flat surface and square edges to work on. I'm pretty sure i need to use low hydrogen rods for this but not 100%. Whats the best way to do this?

the anvil will need to be pre heated to 250 degrees befor you can weld it other wise you risk getting cracks in it , i would sugest taking it some where that can do this for you i would also get it welded in flux core .

this is only a sugestion it s tottaly up to you in the end

[Green as Grass]

I have just brought an old anvil made in 1912 that has seen alot of work and would like to pad weld the top to be machined so i have flat surface and square edges to work on. I'm pretty sure i need to use low hydrogen rods for this but not 100%. Whats the best way to do this?

the anvil will need to be pre heated to 250 degrees befor you can weld it other wise you risk getting cracks in it , i would sugest taking it some where that can do this for you i would also get it welded in flux core .

this is only a sugestion it s tottaly up to you in the end

While that might be the correct thing to do.
More than 20 years ago I was doing my work experience for a black smith. Their anvil was a little beaten up, as you might expect ! I was free labour, so they asked me to weld up the corners square again. I happily emptied a heap of mig wire onto it and tidied up the square edges with a big grinder. I don't know what wire we used, just whatever was in the machine. I don't know if it ever cracked, but he used to flog heck out of it ! It didn't have to be machined. Depends what it's going to be used for I suppose.

[ZanderJay]

Welding is one of the skill needed by constructors to make a very durable design. There are several techniques to achieve the best output. We just have to focus for this skills and also with the overlapping.

[rockcrawler31]

For the style that could need to have a good structure, it's better to have a best welding process. And then, try to have practices for the overlap. We can see that it has more difficulties but it was a good thing to be considered.

In Engrish?

[hj 45]

Quick question, I have a Lincoln 210C mig and I want to use 0.6mm wire instead of the 0.9 I have been using, do I need a specific roller in the wire feed mechanism for the 0.6 stuff?