Larda Niva question

Post by **DAZ** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:25 pm

I belive the Trasfer case in these is good and a devorced unit as well . I was following one the other day and the rear diff looked to be centre driven . So far what im after . Can any one tell me if the ratio out of the transfer case in high range is 1 to 1 or if it is reduced as in a suzuki serria if so how much so and what ratio diffs do they run . Thanks for any input Darren

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:51 pm

High range in a Niva transfer case is 1.2:1. Low is 2.135:1. Nice ratios, actually.

I looked these up in a reasonable amount of detail when a friend was considering a dual transfer case set-up in his Vitara.

In my opinion they are well worth a look for this purpose. Firstly, the 1.2:1 high compensates for a 20% increase in tyre diameter. Secondly, they are a completely divorced case. Thirdly, they are reputed to be pretty tough if somewhat agricultural. Fourthly, the shifting mechanism would be easy to adapt - it uses a piston type operation so that with some pretty basic linkages you could put the shifter anywhere in the car you wanted, making for a neat fit internally.

Fifthly, this is an AWD transfer case. It has a differential and a manual lock (ie, you have two levers to shift.) This means you can, if you wish, wind up with a nice full-time AWD vehicle for improved on-road handling, then lock the centre when you go off-road.

Lastly, it's a CHEAP item. Lada parts are cheap but mechanically strong.

In the end my friend chickened out because he was unwilling to run the Niva case rotated (he figured the oil wouldn't keep it properly lubed up.)

I personally think this is untrue, but then, it's not my money

Basically the output shaft on this comes out at about 7 o'clock (looking at it from the rear.) This means that in a Vitara (which is what we looked at) you have to swivel it to clear the gearbox with the front driveshaft - it needs to come out at 4 o'clock or so instead.

Me, I reckon the transfer case oiling would be completely unaffected, but you'd have to suck it and see.

Anyway. You can find schematics for almoste every part of a lada at this useful site: http://www.ladaniva.co.za/

I'm frankly surprised there aren't dual transfer case kits available that allow the installation of this unit as a secont transfer case. It would suit anything with 20% bigger tyres, eliminating the need for changes to diff ratios, as well as offering all the obvious benefits of a second transfer case.

What is your planned use for it? 2nd transfer case? Replacement for stock case? I'd be interested to hear what you're gonna do with it.

Well, I'll sign off now.

Cheers,

Jason

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:52 pm

By the way I am not a spelling Nazi but if you do web searches, spell it "LADA".

Jason

Post by **antt** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:55 pm

chimpboy, what were they going for when you investigated them?

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:07 pm

antt wrote:chimpboy, what were they going for when you investigated them?

Get this: about $150.

I was a bit unfair - as well as the fact that you'd have to rotate them in a Vitara, there's also a chassis crossmember that might get in the way. However, that was in a SWB and I reckon you'd have less trouble in yours - it's an LWB isn't it?

One thing you'd have to do is cut the bottom of your stock transfer case off and put a plate there. The whole bottom section just houses a chain and the front output bearings/shaft, so it can be removed easily and safely - the only hard bit would be cutting it really neatly so it seals alright. This would be necessary so the front driveshaft has a clear path to the front diff.

If you are thinking of doing this I wouldn't mind lending a hand just so I can see what's involved.

Jason

Post by **antt** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:12 pm

still investigating, though the reduction in high range would be nice.

would'nt running the linkages etc, prove to be a major hassle seeing as the case has been clocked from 7 to 4, they'd end up being on the bottom side of it

and yer, mines a lwb

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:16 pm

antt wrote:would'nt running the linkages etc, prove to be a major hassle seeing as the case has been clocked from 7 to 4, they'd end up being on the bottom side of it

I don't think so because they basically face forward. In any case, you would probably strongly consider doing it electrically with two (waterproof) solenoids. That would be nice - a couple of new switches on the dash saying "hi/low" and "AWD locked/unlocked"...

Take a look at the diagrams on the link above. It's interesting!

Jason

Post by **DAZ** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:40 pm

chimp boy your a ledgend I have been considering all my options to put a dual transfer case set up in my LWB Vitara wagon and i wan't to reduce my final ratio in doing it I have been thinking I wonder what Larda has to offer for a wile now . Well looks like im in the market for a Larda T case NOW any one know where i can get one cheap lets do it and see if it works I say , and ill be going down the parth of constant 4WD while im at it .

Is there a perticular model T case i should get or are they all the same. I might leave a day or so if no one reading this site has one to offer ill post a wanted im going to do this . HONEY a nother project to keep me out of house .

Post by **DAZ** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:49 pm

chimpboy wrote:By the way I am not a spelling Nazi but if you do web searches, spell it "LADA".

Jason

Sorry buot speeeling not my strong point I spelt my wifes madden name wrong for so long it was just easer to marrier here and make it the same as mine .

Post by **Nev62** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:57 pm

DAZ wrote:Sorry buot speeeling not my strong point I spelt my wifes madden name wrong for so long it was just easer to marrier here and make it the same as mine .

thats one way to do it.

Post by **-Mick-** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:34 pm

That's some kick ass tech there chimpboy, Antt give him his prize :lol:

What would you compare them to for relative strength based on what you've read?

mmmmmm Dual cases for the lwb sierra :idea:

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:31 pm

Yikes, don't go too far down the road of believing me. This is all based on reading stuff etc. - actually doing it is going to involve a lot of work for someone before it's even proven to be possible!

Jason

Post by **antt** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:23 pm

DAZ wrote:chimp boy your a ledgend I have been considering all my options to put a dual transfer case set up in my LWB Vitara wagon and i wan't to reduce my final ratio in doing it I have been thinking I wonder what Larda has to offer for a wile now . Well looks like im in the market for a Larda T case NOW any one know where i can get one cheap lets do it and see if it works I say , and ill be going down the parth of constant 4WD while im at it .

Is there a perticular model T case i should get or are they all the same. I might leave a day or so if no one reading this site has one to offer ill post a wanted im going to do this . HONEY a nother project to keep me out of house .

yes, chimpboy is quite the legend, looked at that site before i went to work this arvo, and holy crap it has some info on it :shock:

if you do it daz, TAKE PICS!, or maybe i could fly down and give ya a hand

.....or do both at once

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:12 pm

mj wrote:What would you compare them to for relative strength based on what you've read?

Dunno but I don't think they break much in Ladas, and Suzukis aren't heavy.

I'd really like to see someone do this...

Jason

Post by **DAZ** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:26 pm

Its approx $150 t-case the worst that can happen is it dosen't work ive just been trying to find something that has a reduction in high and a centre rear out put . Ill do it ive done almost everything ive said im going to to date . Just need to complete the 40 im putting the 80 serries diffs in first . Then back on to the suzy family 4b . Don't let fear hold you back chimpboy besause it will work ( mabey ? :lol:

) Im not going to run this one buy the misses as i know the answer will have to do this one when she is working on late shifts . :twisted:

yes, chimpboy is quite the legend, looked at that site before i went to work this arvo, and holy crap it has some info on it

if you do it daz, TAKE PICS!, or maybe i could fly down and give ya a hand .....or do both at once
I will let you both know when i get my hands on a t-case i have posted a wanted add , see how i go . (But don't tell the wife

)

Post by **bj on roids** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:10 am

I have no experience with lada nivas at all. In fact I have only ever seen one broken down and it was pretty deep in salt water. I always laugh at them, but I cannot say much more about them.

They have a reputation for poor quality control, and mechanical, issues. Certainly something to consider. Also consider parts availability, and options for upgrades/etc.

V8zuki on here ran a (red) Holden 6 into a trimatic, then into a vitara t-case with the bottom cut off as chimp boy describes and then put a standard 1.3L case behind that again. I know of another guy running 38boggers (my old ones) behind a supercharged 1.3L with a similar dual case setup. I would probably lean more toward that area.

Post by **DAZ** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:22 am

the serria t/case has an off set rear out put and they have a problem with breaking the mounts off when worked hard i belive plus i have been told that there reduction in high range will be to much . I also belive the t/case in Lada is the best bit in the car if it shits its self rip it out and put standard tail sharft in till you get parts . Dose any one know of a wrecker in VIC that has some mabey ?

Post by **r0ck_m0nkey** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm

bj on roids wrote:They have a reputation for poor quality control, and mechanical, issues. Certainly something to consider. Also consider parts availability, and options for upgrades/etc.

Mechanical wise, they are pretty strong. Only the rubber coupling between gearbox and transfer is their week point, which when slightly worn causes some pretty bad vibration problems, and even worse when someone doesn't install the new one properly.

There biggest problem is their electrical system which to some extent is pretty ordinary, which anyone willing to sit down and go through can sort out. This is what more often then not brings them to a stop. I have always found it interesting, that Russians can put a man in space, but can't wire a car properly.

Post by **Juzza** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:55 pm

DAZ wrote: . Dose any one know of a wrecker in VIC that has some mabey ?

There used to be some guy specialising in these contraptions on the Hume in Melbourne somewhere opposite the cemetary in Fawkner.
Not sure if he is still there.

Post by **DAZ** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:54 am

Juzza wrote:
DAZ wrote: . Dose any one know of a wrecker in VIC that has some mabey ?

There used to be some guy specialising in these contraptions on the Hume in Melbourne somewhere opposite the cemetary in Fawkner.
Not sure if he is still there.

Thanks thats a start

Post by **bj on roids** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:56 am

Thanks for the info guys!

Post by **nicbeer** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:04 pm

On the LADA questions.

Anyone know anything about the TBI units of these. If there cheap to maybe replicated one onto my zook.

Any ideas.

Nic

Post by cj » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:22 pm

I was having a chat with a guy who does diffs and gearboxes and asked him about the oiling issue if the t-case was rotated and his initial thoughts were as long as you have the same quantity of oil it should be fine. Keep us informed on progress as it may be the solution for my Vit too.

Post by **turps** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:35 pm

For the oilling issue couldn't you just tap a new hole in the top and fill it with more oil.

Post by cj » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:53 am

Hey Daz, just wondering if you ventured any further with this idea?

Post by **N*A*M** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:43 am

turps wrote:For the oilling issue couldn't you just tap a new hole in the top and fill it with more oil.

or overfill it the right way up, then install it clocked. :idea:

Post by **antt** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:55 am

i dont think he did cj cause he sold the vitara last week i think

Post by cj » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:28 am

Would be curious to know if he learnt anymore info that may be useful.

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