Flipping a Toyota or Nissan Diff. Questions.

[lukethedork]

I just bought Nissan Patrol GU front and rear axles.
I am going to be putting them in my Jeep Wrangler TJ.
The Diff Pumpkin of the GU axle is on the wrong side for my Jeep

I have a good idea of what I am going to do. But I thought I would post up and see if anyone had any pictures or additional information on flipping either a Toyota or Nissan Diff (I believe they are both similar. 3rd member, one piece center/tubes, closed knuckles etc.)

I will be cutting off all the brackets as I will be making my own suspension, so the only thing I need info on is actually getting the Diff onto the other side.

Plan so far is to cut both knuckles off, then flip the diff/tube and reweld the knuckles on.
I will then effectively mount the 3rd member upside down, when compared to the housing (the rotation of the 3rd member will not actually change, only in relation to the housing!)

I have seem some people do it with Toyota Hilux diffs, but never a LC or Patrol diff before.
ANY information or tips you have would be greatly appreciated. Even info on how the knuckles are pressed/welded into the housing, or tips on making the 3rd fit upside down etc would be appreciated.

Thanks from England,
Luke.

*Edit* after a more thorough search, I found 1 flip of a Hilux diff.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic197209.php

Good stuff.
If there is any more please let me know. The more info the easier it will be. *Edit*

*Edit* One more question I thought of. What material is the Nissan Patrol Diff?*Edit*

[SIMMO84]

It will then drive the wrong way........

[80's_delirious]

have a read through this thread http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 084#194084 it is a good write up on rotating knuckles.

[rockcrawler31]

It will then drive the wrong way........

No it won't in relation to the vehicle and direction of travel the third member will still be in the same orientation. But in relation to the housing it will be upside down. Actually it will be like the housing rotated around the third member.

[SIMMO84]

I will then effectively mount the 3rd member upside down, *

It will drive the wrong way.

[thehanko]

I will then effectively mount the 3rd member upside down, *

It will drive the wrong way.

yeah cause the knuckles might have been rotaed but the center will be flipped, bit like a car upside would drive backwards in 1st gear if the tyres could still get traction on the ground.

[SIMMO84]

Will the center bolt in upside down in the housing?

[thehanko]

Will the center bolt in upside down in the housing?

it would need to but it wouldnt. hence the problem.

the only way i can see it is cut either side of the pumpin and at each knuckle and the swap the long and short axle tubes from one side to the other.

but i wouldnt want the effort - though it would achieve your needs - i would then brace the housing.

[80's_delirious]

Will the center bolt in upside down in the housing?

it would need to but it wouldnt. hence the problem.

the only way i can see it is cut either side of the pumpin and at each knuckle and the swap the long and short axle tubes from one side to the other.

but i wouldnt want the effort - though it would achieve your needs - i would then brace the housing.

check the link in the original post, third member is also flipped in the housing, so it will drive the right way

[lukethedork]

Plan so far is to cut both knuckles off, then flip the diff/tube and reweld the knuckles on.
I will then effectively mount the 3rd member upside down, when compared to the housing (the rotation of the 3rd member will not actually change, only in relation to the housing!)

Maybe I did not make myself clear. I am well aware that if I mount the 3rd member as an effective 'Low-Pinion', then It will drive backwards.

I will still be using the 3rd member as a Reverse Spiral differential. The axle will not drive backwards.

Thank you for your concerns about this though,
Luke.

[joshy]

If your going to mount the front as a low pinion, should get a rear 3rd member and stick it in to make hi pinion?

[thehanko]

Plan so far is to cut both knuckles off, then flip the diff/tube and reweld the knuckles on.
I will then effectively mount the 3rd member upside down, when compared to the housing (the rotation of the 3rd member will not actually change, only in relation to the housing!)

Maybe I did not make myself clear. I am well aware that if I mount the 3rd member as an effective 'Low-Pinion', then It will drive backwards.

I will still be using the 3rd member as a Reverse Spiral differential. The axle will not drive backwards.

Thank you for your concerns about this though,
Luke.

yeah my bad.

[80's_delirious]

Maybe I did not make myself clear

nah mate, it was as clear as mud



good luck with it. I did a knuckle rotation on my 80series. the hardest part was getting both ends aligned the same

[lukethedork]

I'm still wondering what material the axle is. I presume it is mild steel, but don't want my axle falling apart based on my presumptions.

Please chime in with the info.
Luke.

[lukes4x4]

i`ve done it before to put it in a navara. the knuckles ,diff hat, and diff flange all need to be cut off. then you spin it around , not flip it, then weld the flange where the diff hat used to be and the hat where the flange used to be. the knuckles can then be welded back on . it`s the only way and heaps of work .....trust me . lukey

[Wooders]

Investigate if you could flip that Atlas?

[boggedjeeper]

If you're cutting the knuckles off, wouldn't it be just as usefull to cut the tubes and weld them on the other side instead of flipping the diff?

Why not just use the GU transfer case or something similar (Rover, mog, volvo, G Wagon,)?

There are a few companies over there that do wild things to rovers, chat to them.

[joeblow]

If you're cutting the knuckles off, wouldn't it be just as usefull to cut the tubes and weld them on the other side instead of flipping the diff?

Why not just use the GU transfer case or something similar (Rover, mog, volvo, G Wagon,)?

There are a few companies over there that do wild things to rovers, chat to them.

you can get all sorts of fantasically geared jeep t/cases. you would be better cutting the knuckles off and NOT the tubes as the housing is made from press formed sections its not a great idea to cut those off. knuckles are the best way. i've done a few flips, quite easy. just make sure your drain/fill plugs are right, and also any notching in the mounting flange for the ring gear to fit with the centre rotated.

[frp88]

[quote="lukethedork"]I just bought Nissan Patrol GU front and rear axles.

I guess you mean complete diff's can I ask why I thought Dana 60 where strong as

[95shorty]

Listen here just do it the same way as i have done my hilux diff and you will be right, when i flipped the center i had to fill and shift a couple of holes for the studs but thats easy shit and since all the other studs were right the center was still perfectly aligned to the housing, cutting the flange off could result in error. also all you need to do is cut the welds between the axle tube and knuckle making sure not to cut too deep so you don't actually cut the knuckle off. then rotate them around to where you want them and re-weld.

[95shorty]

also here is a little video from when i rotated the knuckles, you can see how tight they are in the tubes makes it so easy to line up ready to re-weld the seams. i also left the old bearing races in the knuckles so i didn't damage them with the steel bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ-2Q2plO0M

[joeblow]

I just bought Nissan Patrol GU front and rear axles.

I guess you mean complete diff's can I ask why I thought Dana 60 where strong as

dana 60's are way pricey, and i guess he does not have them allready.

[lukethedork]

Sorry, I have not logged on in a few days.

I already have an Atlas 4-speed transfer case. (not gonna flip it dave!, im just stubborn like that)

I already have the GU diffs. D60 diffs are impossible to get over here.

As has been said, The Nissan/Toyota axles are have a 1 piece center / axle tube. Unlike the Dana axles that have the axle tube pressed, and welded into the center differential.
Cutting and welding the tube would be more work to get it aligned properly I think.

My brand new Lincoln welder is not working, so I cannot get to work on the axle for atleast a week from now.

Thanks for the additional information '95shorty'.

I will definately get some pictures when I start cutting and let you guys know how it comes out.

Luke.

PS. the english mechanics are retards compared to Australian ones. The only decent 4x4 guy here has passed away a few weeks ago, Before I got too meet him.

[Wendle]

Cutting and welding the tube would be more work to get it aligned properly I think.

Do you have access to a decent lathe?

[lukethedork]

Cutting and welding the tube would be more work to get it aligned properly I think.

Do you have access to a decent lathe?

No.

I have a welder (lincoln engineer should coming this week), and normal tools.
ie. electric drill, angle grinder, sawzall (saberblade), wrench and socket.

I will be doing all the work myself with minimal experience and would much prefer not too have to take any bits and pieces anywhere to get machined/cut etc.

Luke.
PS. I am in England in a town where I don't know anyone. But I do have a nice clean/dry garage with plenty of room to work in, And there is a car mechanic next door to my garage unit.

[lukethedork]

I lied.
I did not do all the work myself.

I took the bare housing to a guy here in the UK and he cut and rotated the knuckles for me. He also cut and rotated the diff hat (front cover).

Then I just drilled and tapped some new holes/thread and reinserted the studs for the differential.
The most time consuming was cleaning the inside of the housing and disassembling / reassembling everything. I replaced pretty much all the bearings and seals on the rebuild.




Nothing too interesting, but I figure there is a number of people looking into flipping toyota/nissan diffs anyway. So bump to the top!

Luke.

[11_evl]

Cut about 5mm back from the weld or even closer. Towards the diff centre. If you cut back 25mm chances are you will miss-aligne the knuckle as you twist it. As you cut into the housing you will know when you have gone deep enough as the sparks change color as you go from the mild steel tube into the cast steel knuckle. At this point stop. As long as you get a good clean cut all the way around they usually twist real easy. I find it easiest to have the diff fitted to a vehicle when trying to rotate as its almost impossible to stop the diff twisting otherwise. Easiest thing to twist the knuckle with is an old long side front inner axle. Slide it through the 2 Trunion bearing holes and then twist it around. You may need to use a BFH to help it start moving. Before actually twisting mark both the housing and the knuckle with a pin punch right next to each other. Then you have something to measure off as you go.

Also your going to have to move the steering stops to suit.