So what's the go on removing the seal between the swivels and the front bearings? I'm going to be doing the front hub seals soon and was trying to decide whether to replace or remove them.
I'll be using the earlier RTC3511 hub seals regardless. Just wondering if people have been running oil in the front bearings and whether or not there are rpoblems with it.
John B.
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Oil in the Front Bearings
Moderator: Micka
I've been tossing ths one around as well John, as I have to change the front discs and service the wheel bearings as they are due.
I have the RTC3511 seals, and think I'll be re-greasing using my favoured NEO Z-12 grease.
From memory you tend to favour some of Redlines finest, and I'm sure some CV-2 in the bearings would work really well.
I'm always a bit leery of a seal weeping oil onto a disc. I've had this happen on the rear thanks to a blocked breather, and the damn pads were near new.
Looks like I'm having 2 bob each way I 'spose.
Rick.
I have the RTC3511 seals, and think I'll be re-greasing using my favoured NEO Z-12 grease.
From memory you tend to favour some of Redlines finest, and I'm sure some CV-2 in the bearings would work really well.
I'm always a bit leery of a seal weeping oil onto a disc. I've had this happen on the rear thanks to a blocked breather, and the damn pads were near new.
Looks like I'm having 2 bob each way I 'spose.
Rick.
there's a seal on the swivel and a stub axle seal before oil would get to the wheel bearings from the axle
I just replace the swivels on mine and replaced all the seals and put grease(L/R) into the swivels again as I have had no probs with it since I first tried in.
I just replace the swivels on mine and replaced all the seals and put grease(L/R) into the swivels again as I have had no probs with it since I first tried in.
Defender 90 Modified
Defender 110XS Standard
[url=http://www.lr4x4.com]lr4x4.com[/url]
Defender 110XS Standard
[url=http://www.lr4x4.com]lr4x4.com[/url]
When I built my RR front diff assembly I didn't put any seal in to stop oil getting to the bearings, best thing is having constant lube in bearings
But thats me, I have owned Series landy's which are like that, I believe it's best
But thats me, I have owned Series landy's which are like that, I believe it's best
[i]DAS[/i]
MY05 4.4L V8 Range Rover Vogue
Series 2a Buggy....In the Building
MY05 4.4L V8 Range Rover Vogue
Series 2a Buggy....In the Building
Well I think I'll leave the internal seals out and let the oil flow freely. My main justification is that I then know when the swivel and hub seals are bad. If the oil can get out, water can get in. I do a lot of wading and knowing the seals are good before going in is quite handy.
There is the negative that you toss a set of pads if the hub seal goes, but IMHO having pads go bad beats having bearings go bad any day of the week.
There is the negative that you toss a set of pads if the hub seal goes, but IMHO having pads go bad beats having bearings go bad any day of the week.
red90 wrote:Well I think I'll leave the internal seals out and let the oil flow freely. My main justification is that I then know when the swivel and hub seals are bad. If the oil can get out, water can get in. I do a lot of wading and knowing the seals are good before going in is quite handy.
There is the negative that you toss a set of pads if the hub seal goes, but IMHO having pads go bad beats having bearings go bad any day of the week.
granted but I have never had any water in the bearings or swivel I too do a lot of wading including a 4'/5' deep crossing in Wales.
pics on my web site.
plus any traversing alopes will start draining the hubs of that precious oil
Defender 90 Modified
Defender 110XS Standard
[url=http://www.lr4x4.com]lr4x4.com[/url]
Defender 110XS Standard
[url=http://www.lr4x4.com]lr4x4.com[/url]
tony cordell wrote:plus any traversing alopes will start draining the hubs of that precious oil
Doubt it. The oil needs to go into the spindle and then out. The bearings are on the outside and a pool of fluid will be held there.
I know it is very common to do this in the rear axle and all reports are that there are many fewer bearing failures. Certainly my Disco ran for the 4 years I had it with oil in the rear hubs. I was just wondering if there was any special reason why the front would be different.
I have seen a few people lose bearings from water/mud getting in. If they had known the hub seal was bad before hand, they wouldn't have taken the rig off road and then been stuck with seized bearings in the bush.
Red90, have you, or anyone else ended up doing this?
I'm up to the same point as you were when you originally posted.
Weird thing is I've had a look at the front hubs for the first time in about 18 months and the last mechanic has left the outer hub seal off on the passenger side and the swivel housing oil has mixed with the wheel bearing grease creating a bloody great mess!
Driver's side is setup as per normal, grease on the wheel bearings and all the right seals in place.
Do I clean out the grease, remove the outer hub seal and run oil in them or replace the missing seal on the passenger side hub?
I just seem sceptical that enough oil would come through the spindle past the stub axle and then back towards the wheel bearings, reaching the rear bearing seems harder too.
I'm up to the same point as you were when you originally posted.
Weird thing is I've had a look at the front hubs for the first time in about 18 months and the last mechanic has left the outer hub seal off on the passenger side and the swivel housing oil has mixed with the wheel bearing grease creating a bloody great mess!
Driver's side is setup as per normal, grease on the wheel bearings and all the right seals in place.
Do I clean out the grease, remove the outer hub seal and run oil in them or replace the missing seal on the passenger side hub?
I just seem sceptical that enough oil would come through the spindle past the stub axle and then back towards the wheel bearings, reaching the rear bearing seems harder too.
I removed the seal between the swivel and diff. I left the original (probably leaking) seal between the bearing and swivel. This was mainly because I was lazy and did not want to remove and re-install the CV bushing....
The fun bit when I got in there was that I found the right side CV did not have a circlip at the drive member. No trace of the bugger, so it must have been like that for years. Didn't seem to have caused a problem.
Still leak free 6 months later, anyway, knock on wood.
The fun bit when I got in there was that I found the right side CV did not have a circlip at the drive member. No trace of the bugger, so it must have been like that for years. Didn't seem to have caused a problem.
Still leak free 6 months later, anyway, knock on wood.
[color=red]1991 Landrover 90 ex-MOD[/color]
I started removing the seals between the swivel housing and diff housing 20 years ago and have incurred far fewer wheel bearing seal failures as a result . the front hubs,cv joint outer splines and drive flanges on most defenders seem to get a little oil that escapes from the swivel housings to keep them adequately lubricated, but the rear axles definately do not, so to keep the axles and drive flanges alive the inner spindle seal should be removed or damaged with a red hot rod poked through the spindle.
Bill.
Bill.
oil in hubs
I advise all customers with these vehicles if they are being used for offroad at all, that when wheel bearing service and new RTC3511's are fitted that we remove all inner axle seals and run in oil. Especially Defender rear!!
From ALL of these,( at least 50+)I have had probably 3 oil leaks onto rear discs, all defenders, and 2 of them were from borderline seal surface condition on stub. The other one was my mistake...
My first Rangie all those years ago had a failed wheel bearing from no lube and water ingress, and my present RR has all the inner seals removed due to the amount of wheeling done in mud water etc.
I've recently removed all seals from a 2003 Defender 110, To stop the rear spline wear ( Which is still a design fault!!) and help front wheel bearing / drive member lube. Preload is originally not adjustable from 1999 Td5 Defender on, Wheel bearings are set with a spacer between inner races, and a peenable locknut on stub. I would suggest to all to retrofit early Tdi Defender/Disco1/Rangie wheel bearing adjuster nut/locktab/locknut system to allow proper preload setting done the 'Real way" by feel with the wheel on, not relying on the thickness of a mass produced spacer which as we all know, can be affected by LR tolerancing...
EP 80w90 Oil is the go, and don't forget about fitting RTC3511 hub seals to the correct depth, 4mm from outer of hub to seal main body(Not outer lip)
A good service tool for this is an old Defender or disco front drive member, machine the locating lip down to 4mm, and just place it over the seal and gently tap it in. Material is very hard to machine without tungsten cutting tip, the whole drive member is hardened.
Enjoy, JC
From ALL of these,( at least 50+)I have had probably 3 oil leaks onto rear discs, all defenders, and 2 of them were from borderline seal surface condition on stub. The other one was my mistake...
My first Rangie all those years ago had a failed wheel bearing from no lube and water ingress, and my present RR has all the inner seals removed due to the amount of wheeling done in mud water etc.
I've recently removed all seals from a 2003 Defender 110, To stop the rear spline wear ( Which is still a design fault!!) and help front wheel bearing / drive member lube. Preload is originally not adjustable from 1999 Td5 Defender on, Wheel bearings are set with a spacer between inner races, and a peenable locknut on stub. I would suggest to all to retrofit early Tdi Defender/Disco1/Rangie wheel bearing adjuster nut/locktab/locknut system to allow proper preload setting done the 'Real way" by feel with the wheel on, not relying on the thickness of a mass produced spacer which as we all know, can be affected by LR tolerancing...
EP 80w90 Oil is the go, and don't forget about fitting RTC3511 hub seals to the correct depth, 4mm from outer of hub to seal main body(Not outer lip)
A good service tool for this is an old Defender or disco front drive member, machine the locating lip down to 4mm, and just place it over the seal and gently tap it in. Material is very hard to machine without tungsten cutting tip, the whole drive member is hardened.
Enjoy, JC
'92 Rangie Sherwood/turbo intercooled isuzu4BD1 /ACE/ full leather/2.5" exh/2.5" body lift/DeCarbon shocks/LR tanks/LT95 back in and OK now, Sals conversion soon...
I've still got the inner axle seals in place, separating the swivel housing oil from the diff centre oil.
There is no seal inside the stub axle though, so oil from the swivel housing comes down the inside of the stub axle and onto the adjusting nuts and inside the end of the stub axle.
So what I really want to know is if anyone lets this oil flow back into the wheel bearings by removing the outer hub seal, thus having no grease in the hub at all, and just one seal at the back of the hub?
This would actually leave you with only 2 seals in the front end, the swivel housing ball seal and the rear hub seal, with oil being able to flow from your diff centre, into the swivel housing, down the stub axle and around the wheel bearings.
Is this a good idea or should the outer hub seal be left in place and the bearings packed with grease?
There is no seal inside the stub axle though, so oil from the swivel housing comes down the inside of the stub axle and onto the adjusting nuts and inside the end of the stub axle.
So what I really want to know is if anyone lets this oil flow back into the wheel bearings by removing the outer hub seal, thus having no grease in the hub at all, and just one seal at the back of the hub?
This would actually leave you with only 2 seals in the front end, the swivel housing ball seal and the rear hub seal, with oil being able to flow from your diff centre, into the swivel housing, down the stub axle and around the wheel bearings.
Is this a good idea or should the outer hub seal be left in place and the bearings packed with grease?
Thanks guys for the responses!
I'm going to clean out the grease, remove the outer hub seals and run oil in the bearings.
This will also give me a good indication if my inner hub seal is ok or not, as there will be oil on the disc if it is bad.
Probably wouldn't be able to find someone open this week for the missing outer hub seal anyway!
I'm going to clean out the grease, remove the outer hub seals and run oil in the bearings.
This will also give me a good indication if my inner hub seal is ok or not, as there will be oil on the disc if it is bad.
Probably wouldn't be able to find someone open this week for the missing outer hub seal anyway!
oil seal removal
OOps, I meant front spindle seals only and rear inner seals,
I ONLY REMOVE SPINDLE SEAL(ACTUALLY DAMAGING IT IS EASIER LIKE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED) ON FRONT AND REAR INNER stub SEAL ON REAR!!!
Sorry for confusion...
JC
I ONLY REMOVE SPINDLE SEAL(ACTUALLY DAMAGING IT IS EASIER LIKE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED) ON FRONT AND REAR INNER stub SEAL ON REAR!!!
Sorry for confusion...
JC
'92 Rangie Sherwood/turbo intercooled isuzu4BD1 /ACE/ full leather/2.5" exh/2.5" body lift/DeCarbon shocks/LR tanks/LT95 back in and OK now, Sals conversion soon...
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