how do you get flex out of a hilux? inverted shocks?

[Biggles09]

hey guys i have been building my hilux for a few months now..its my first 4x4 rebuild, atm it doesnt really flex at all? have takin a couple of leaves out and still no better? i but a inverted shock kit and will be fitting it hopefully this weekend? just want to know how to go about it and if some people to can put some pics up of other rear setups as to compare? cheers!

[Sic Lux]

Top right corner of this page. Use it and you will be reading for about 2 weeks on this subject

[bad_religion_au]

turning your shocks upside down won't improve flex....

[DUDELUX]

turning your shocks upside down won't improve flex....

I think he means, moving the top mounts inward, like a A.

At the top of page, there is the Hilux Bible, theres alot of info in there, on what to do, and how to do it.
Just above the Bibles, theres a search box, use that, and like posted above, you will have more than enough info to sort you out.

As for pics of setups, go into the members section and look through a few Lux build ups.

[Zuri92]

long soft leaves with a fair bit of curve, lay the shackles over, RUF long shocks etc.

use the bible and search ( i cant figure the search out tho so maybe just use the bible )

[bad_religion_au]

turning your shocks upside down won't improve flex....

I think he means, moving the top mounts inward, like a A.

At the top of page, there is the Hilux Bible, theres alot of info in there, on what to do, and how to do it.
Just above the Bibles, theres a search box, use that, and like posted above, you will have more than enough info to sort you out.

As for pics of setups, go into the members section and look through a few Lux build ups.

I know this is what he means, but it's just a stupid way of saying it.

to the OP, what length are your shocks? what is the distance between top and bottom shock mounts with the shock removed and the suspension at full droop? full compression? what length are the shackles? what length springs? what distance between the spring hanger and shackle hanger?

i'll put $5 on the fact you end up with LESS flex once you "invert" your shocks. they will probably be the limiting factor now, and moving them together closer will make the shock need to be longer at full droop than they need to be now.

"inverting your shocks" only works if you use it to fit longer travel shocks in... *slaps forehead*

[DUDELUX]

Sorry

[Zuri92]

Not really. Depends on how much you lay them over and how much you bring them to the centre of the car. I get mire wheel travel out of my rear than my front. My rear has 10 inch shocks. My front 12 inch.

Slap your head again

[bad_religion_au]

Not really. Depends on how much you lay them over and how much you bring them to the centre of the car. I get mire wheel travel out of my rear than my front. My rear has 10 inch shocks. My front 12 inch.

Slap your head again

are 10 inch shocks longer than standard hilux shocks? if so, my point still stands (that running standard hilux shocks layed over will limit flex MORE if the shocks were the limiting factor in the setup before laying the shock over)

If not, then pythagorous was wrong

[Zuri92]

The main reason for the laying over is to fit them under the tray. I am not that great at pythagorizing so I Wong go into it more

The thing with what they call inverting the shocks. Is you can move them toward the centre of the diff a little. Or a lot. Meaning that 1 inch of shock travel will equal more at the wheel the farther you inboard the shocks. Works in a flex situation. But shocks will still stop it in a full drop of both rear wheels. Also inverting them reduces binding of the shock bushes improving flex a little and maybe increasing shock/bush life

[uglystik01]

keeping in mind that if you move the shockies in-board on the diff they will be less efficient. what are you aiming to build the lux into a really flexy 4b can be a PITA to drive round town and i dont know about where you are but here in bundy the cops dont appreciate body roll around roundabouts ...that said i dont think i could own a 4b without modifying it for flex.
that said the basics that i have learnt so far is
-flatter leaf packs flex better than arched
-longer leaves flex better
-longer shockies to prevent limiting them ive got 14 inch travel in the rear of mine and i use 12inch when flexing

[Zuri92]

you pretty much summed it up, ideally you want long shocks mounted near te wheel, not everybody can afford to get the shocks and yada yada yada a whoe heap of bs

you will soon learn that every mod has a downside, sometimes small sometimes large

[thehanko]

Not really. Depends on how much you lay them over and how much you bring them to the centre of the car. I get mire wheel travel out of my rear than my front. My rear has 10 inch shocks. My front 12 inch.

Slap your head again

are 10 inch shocks longer than standard hilux shocks? if so, my point still stands (that running standard hilux shocks layed over will limit flex MORE if the shocks were the limiting factor in the setup before laying the shock over)

If not, then pythagorous was wrong

The further they lay over the less effective they are - i.e they move less than they did when vertical.

e.g when vert a 1 inch flex will involve roughly a 1 inch shock travel.

but when at 45 deg a 1 inch flex will only involve roughly a 1/2 inch shock travel. this reduced action is what makes them also less effective at shock absorption which is why it is not ideal.

as for std shocks being to short, well i guess that depends on where you put the mounts as it will be custom anyway.

but i agree that the current stocker shockers will be the likely limiting factor in the current set up.

[bad_religion_au]

The main reason for the laying over is to fit them under the tray. I am not that great at pythagorizing so I Wong go into it more

The thing with what they call inverting the shocks. Is you can move them toward the centre of the diff a little. Or a lot. Meaning that 1 inch of shock travel will equal more at the wheel the farther you inboard the shocks. Works in a flex situation. But shocks will still stop it in a full drop of both rear wheels. Also inverting them reduces binding of the shock bushes improving flex a little and maybe increasing shock/bush life

don't you move them on the crossmember not the diff housing? if so, then no, 1 inch of travel won't equal more at the wheel, that only applies if your moving them inwards on the axle housing i would think?

thehanko's explanation is getting me to think your way a little, but still not convinced at the sums. will need to set this up in the shed and have a play.

but why do you need to lay STANDARD <<< read that word please, length shocks over? don't they fit under the tray from factory?

it is a good way to get a longer travel shock under a standard height tray yes, but longer shocks = actually thinking about suspension design. something that hasn't happened here.

[bad_religion_au]

keeping in mind that if you move the shockies in-board on the diff they will be less efficient. what are you aiming to build the lux into a really flexy 4b can be a PITA to drive round town and i dont know about where you are but here in bundy the cops dont appreciate body roll around roundabouts ...that said i dont think i could own a 4b without modifying it for flex.
that said the basics that i have learnt so far is
-flatter leaf packs flex better than arched
-longer leaves flex better
-longer shockies to prevent limiting them ive got 14 inch travel in the rear of mine and i use 12inch when flexing

can i add a couple i've learnt

- flex is pretty overrated as the ground pressure on one tire at full flex is very small
- flex is useless if it's uncontrolled
- hardly anyone gets front and rear leaf spring setups working properly together. that is, they tend to get the front, or the back travelling well, with the opposite end only starting to work when the good working end is reaching the limits of flex. this makes it unstable at best. poor handling, and poor offroad at worst.
- one diff lock on a standard sprung rig will usually make it further than a really flexy rig with open diffs.
- flex is overrated.

[johnsy86]

- flex is overrated.

best one ive read yet

[uglystik01]

[quote="bad_religion_au"]
can i add a couple i've learnt

- flex is pretty overrated as the ground pressure on one tire at full flex is very small
- flex is useless if it's uncontrolled
- hardly anyone gets front and rear leaf spring setups working properly together. that is, they tend to get the front, or the back travelling well, with the opposite end only starting to work when the good working end is reaching the limits of flex. this makes it unstable at best. poor handling, and poor offroad at worst.
- one diff lock on a standard sprung rig will usually make it further than a really flexy rig with open diffs.
- flex is overrated. [/quote
i dont know if youve built a flexy rig before but it amazes me how easy my lux crawls up tracks (even when it had open diff centres) and having wheels on the ground feels a shit load more stable then having wheels 4 feet in the air. as for a balanced leaf spring setup im using ford exploder rear leafs and ruf and i get front wheel off the ground 950 and rear wheel 1200 which is more due to the fact that the engine is heavy making the leaves work better.

with all that said for a weekend rig/daily driver a low centre of gravity and twin locked is probably the most practical setup.

anyone else noted that the original person asking the question hasnt reposted

[Zuri92]

when you invert shocks you do not use any standard mounts, therefore you can and will put them where you want as it is entirely in your hands as to where yu weld the mounts. so then yes you can inboard them, or lay them over as much as you want. and when mounted on the diff not on the spring plate you may not fit them under the tray (depending on tray location). do they fit under standard? yes are you using a factory setup? no .......so will they fit, you will have to find out.

i have read your word standard, i am just saying that yu can get 20 inch of wheel travel out of a 6 inch travel shock. yes it would have a rediculouse angle on the shock and be inboarded a lot. (probably laying forward so they will fit). it wont work as a shock very well, pretty shitty actually, but can it be done? YES

you need to look outside the box of standard sometimes, because when it comes to modifications, the only limit is the extent of your imagination and knowledge.

[thehanko]

but why do you need to lay STANDARD <<< read that word please, length shocks over? don't they fit under the tray from factory?

cause your a tight bastard! lol If you have the skills buit no cash you can invert rear shocks for more articulation on a budget. best bet imo is to inboard a few inches but also go longer so they still have a good action as a shock absorber as well.

I never bothered inverting my rears I just squeezed the longest second hand shocks i could find in there and away I went.

As for never getting a leafy to match front to back very well, I think thats a bit of a furfy really. My lux went pretty well with what was a fairly basic set up not huge flex but alot more than stock and was nice and stable.

On the other hand my god damn coil patrol is so far from balanced its not funny.

The best part about leaves is you can alter them and evolve them, with coils its a matter of remove a component and buy another one and hope its right

[Biggles09]

ok then i think i have a rough idea of what i want to do, didnt know there were so many posts about THIS perticular subject? i have purchased a bracket that allows me to put my shocks ( NOT STANDARD ONES ) on the inwards angle. and have got rancho rs9000sl's for it.

im not on a budget as i want to get QUALITY parts, have purchased GQ diffs and will be attemping a coil conversion. will this be hard? is there any topics about this?
i have been looking at a few setups and doesnt really seem all that hard?

OPINIONS??? nice ones at that..

[img]C:\Users\Chriso\Pictures\2011-07-05[/img]

[Biggles09]

how do you post pictures too?

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

to post pics you gotta use photobucket or a similar hosting site.

man theres a fair few hiluxs running GQ diffs about.
i think you will be suprised how much work there is. and then theres engineering it and getting it all legal too.

you wont be doing it in a weekend etc.

[Jcas24]

- flex is overrated.

best one ive read yet

you only say that cause you have none!


nah seriously I know exactly what you mean