full bolt on tb54 GU turbo kit!!!!

[MOO_R32]

heya, stopped by turbotune ( SA) 2day and michael there was showing me their new turbo kit they have made for the tb45.. pretty great, so neat and tidy. he said they will be advertising them shortly, he has done a heep of dyno work and road testing.

he told me it went from 80kw at the wheels to 190kw on 6psi and almost 500Nm!! with 33" tyres.

cant stress how neat the kit is, i didnt even know it was there till u go looking for it!! lol

i myt go back past and ask to take a few pics of the intercooler and turbo set up.. more power and torque than diesel now.. would be pretty happy with that! i was tossing up wether to upgrade the beast or try n make somthing out of it..


ill try and get a few more details on it if any ones keen..

[4wheelinls1]

AVO and Safari have had kits out for a few years, the problem is the TB45 tends to chuck rods out around 165-180 rwKw. They are not a hard car to do as the manifold is the same as the TB42, you can use Diesel manifolds and make the rest too. Have made over 400rwkW but pistons and rods are a must.

Joel

[MOO_R32]

YEA, I KNOW OF THE OTHER KITS,

BUT NONE OF THE OTHER KITS MAKE THIS KIND OF POWER AND TORQUE AT SUCH A LOW AND SAFE BOOST LEVEL, WHICH IS WHAT ATTRACTED ME TO THE KIT IN THE FIRST PLACE..

[MOO_R32]

i cant find any where that safari and avo are advertising any kits any more for the tb45... only ATX turbo.. but they want $11,000.00 drive in drive out for a kit and they told me id only get a 60% gain.. which equates to aprox 128kw at the wheels on the same boost as the kit that turbotune can supply which can make any where between 180-190kw at the wheels (120% or more) and for under 10G, which tells me there is alot more effort and time put in to the kit (eg tunning and turbo sizes etc...) that turbotune can supply me..

[Northside 4x4]

What makes 6psi safe?

Do some research on petrol tuning and you will quickly realise boost pressure isnt always a killer of them.

Ignition timing is 99% of the time the culprit.

Those engines will take 12-14psi with reasonable timing figures. But as has been stated the rods dont stand up to it all that well.

Ive pulled a few down that were making 300-320hp and you could physically see the s shape of the rods.

1FZ-FE is a classic example. They can make near on 1000hp with standard internals and good tuning, yet I have seen so many dead turbo'd 1FZ's with holes punched through the block due to detonation bending rods.

The car below made 220hp on 8psi and 320hp on 12psi. As reliability is far more important to us and the customer, the vehicle left with 220hp knowing it has a huge safety margin in both boost and timing.

[MOO_R32]

yea detonation IS a major killer, i was assuming that ur car is tuned without detonation and is not tuned on the limit of timing and mixtures are appropriate for the mods and power ur engine is making (if ur tuner is tuning on the limit then i would suggest finding another tuner cos it will cost you alot of money in the end.. all for a couple of kilowatts!! )

iv done ALOT of research on timing/detonation/knock and understand exactly what happens and what causes it and know what it can do to ur engine/pistons/head/rods/crank etc etc.. lol

still with all the research iv done i think that the turbo kit that turbotune supply is the best neatest most professional kit on the market at the moment, especially once the factory exhaust manifold heat shield is back on and the top intercooler pipe is painted in black wrinkle paint... it looks completely factory and like every thing is MENT to be there!! i havnt seen any other kits as good as this so far..

i think they have pictures on their facebook, i cant see any on their website yet tho...

is it possible to put pictures on here from ur computer at all?

[Northside 4x4]

Oh dont get me wrong, im not having a go at the kit at all. Im sure it is a fine piece of gear.

But as for tuning/power/boost etc... After doing alot of custom kits I know the kind of boost and tuning figures that are requried to make 250-260hp on this particular engine.

Yes it is achievable with a gt35R @ 6psi. But you are nearing the maximum point in timing on 98RON rated fuel to reach this power level.
What happens if you have a batch of bad fuel? Or 98 isnt available? Aftermarket ecu's dont have the ability to continue to pull the timing back based on knock.
Boost spikes due to extreme cold temperatures...
High ambient air temps increasing post intercooler temps.
High water temperature and so on.

All of these thing must be taken into account with a high performance petrol application. You can tune a 1 or 2degree advance safety margin into most cars running a factory ecu or good aftermarket ecu, IF it always has good fuel and conditions within reason.

4wd's dont always have the ability to fill up with premium 98RON fuel, + They generally have much much higher load on the engine for a very long period of time.

Tuning theory for high performance (GTR/WRX/SUPRA etc...) is worlds apart from tuning a TB42/45/48 that has been turbo'd, to make it live a decent lifespan.

As I said, I have the ability to tune the kits I have done well up into the 350hp mark. But I don't, because I have seen what happens when you get to close to the edge.

Who will warrant the engine if it blows up? If its one of my kits, I have to.

If it blows up with a bolt on kit from any manufacturer, they will laugh at you if you try and get them to foot the bill for a blow up. Citing "its performance, these things happen".

[Northside 4x4]

I can post pictures up if you like.
Email them to wrx_sti_01@hotmail.com and ill throw them up for you.

Also did they say what the kit involved? Turbo/Intercooler/Fitting kit/ECU/ Fuel System/ Ignition System/ Exhaust / etc...

[MOO_R32]

as is with all cars..

it comes down to trusting and finding a good tuner, im happy with mine and have been asured thet it is a long way from the edge and as always if you have a turbo car and want it to last, you always do as much as you can to stay away from these veriables..

which is why they do these kits and have actually put the effort in to this custom garret turbo as well..

ill send you a picture on monday if possible, it genuinly looks like it came out the factory like this.. lol

[raptorthumper]

i just had another look at the TB45 and TB42 rods i have in the shed and all i will say is good luck with that.

I know of 2 naturally aspirated TB45's that have broken conrods. You might say these are isolated failues and fatigue related, but it is interesting don't you think.

[DanwinGQ]

I have been looking into performance of my TB45.
I have been thinking of spending some hard earned tax money on my work car.
What sort of money are we talking for the above turbo kits that have been mentioned and what are the chances of an engine with 200 000kms on it just shitting itself??

My question is for the money you are spending are you better off with:
A: a turboed engine with 200 odd HP and the possibility of longevity being a problem.
or
B: an engine conversion with say an LS2 or something with around 300hp all day long.

Sorry if getting a little off topic, just trying to compare prices and reliability.

[Northside 4x4]

200hp wont give you longevity problems on the 4.2/4.5's. Once you start pushing 250+ then the rods will become the weak link of the chain.
R32 would have to give the price of the kit he is refering to.

I would say LS or Turbo would be around the same price anyway. The turbo engine will give you better economy and more midrange torque than the V8 + lower rego costs.
Most of the kits I have built have ended up costing up in the $12-14K mark.

[MOO_R32]

think turbo tunes kit is under ten G drive in drive out.. but i see ur in qld.. send them an email..

[Northside 4x4]

think turbo tunes kit is under ten G drive in drive out.. but i see ur in qld.. send them an email..

That is super well priced. Did they have or send you a complete parts list?

[DanwinGQ]

Do these kits include intercooling?? If so water to air or air to air??

Correct me if I'm wrong, But I'm sure you could do a DIY turbo set up for well under 10K?
Custom exhaust manifold= around $1200
Garret to3= around $1000- $1200
Water to air set up= around $1300
Custom ECU and tune= about $1500
Custom ally pipe work to join it all together with some rubber elbows and bits and pieces= about $500- $1000
Exhaust= $600- $1000

That's around 7k at worst. Better if you got some street racer mates into fab work or even using cheaper front mount air to air.

I may have mist some parts as I'm no petrol Gu Ru.
I did my own set up on my old 4.2 diesel for a round 5k with all new parts. Garret ball bearing and pwr air water to air. It went hard!

[Northside 4x4]

Things you have yet to include in the price.

Fittings, Oil and water lines for the turbo.
Fuel System $600-700 for a pump, associated fittings and fuel pressure reg.
External wastegate.
Boost control system (electronic or pneumatic)
Ignition system upgrades, Plugs, Coil/s, leads. Idealy you will throw the dizzy in the bin and have a multi coil setup. Using the original optical chopper plate in the dizzy base for timing reference.

Custom ecu and tune $1500? Maybe you could buy the ecu for that + fitting + tuning.
Water to air for $1300? Good luck. On a diesel its easy to skimp on cooling and not destroy the motor. Do it on a petrol and wave bye bye to your engine.

[DanwinGQ]

That's cool as I said correct me if I'm wrong.

As stated, I'm no petrol GU RU.

I paid $1300 for my PWR water to air including barrel, filler, fittings, radiator, fan with switches and relays. All I needed was the coolant and some high temp hoses.

Thought that set up would be sufficient??

As I said correct me if I'm wrong.

[Northside 4x4]

That's cool as I said correct me if I'm wrong.

As stated, I'm no petrol GU RU.

I paid $1300 for my PWR water to air including barrel, filler, fittings, radiator, fan with switches and relays. All I needed was the coolant and some high temp hoses.

Thought that set up would be sufficient??

As I said correct me if I'm wrong.

Im not a huge advocate of the barrel cooler personally, but thats just my opinion on it.
Cheap they are, and for alot of setups they are more than sufficient at the cooling they do.
I would personally run a front mount on most petrol applications if the budget didnt strech for a high quality water to air system.

PWR will make you any size intercooler you could imagine and I rate them as one of, if not the best cooling solution company in the world.

Sorry DanwinGQ - I wasnt having a dig at you or anything mate. But Intercooling on petrol's is just so critical to keeping the engine alive, unlike a diesel (which will happily run without one)

[DanwinGQ]

That's cool.
I am defiantly interested in rustling some more power out of my 4.5 as I do a far bit of towing. I just don't like the idea of spending 8 to 10k then having something go pop.
Way off topic again,
But would a decent snorkel, exhaust and tune get much out of one without affecting longevity??

[Northside 4x4]

That's cool.
I am defiantly interested in rustling some more power out of my 4.5 as I do a far bit of towing. I just don't like the idea of spending 8 to 10k then having something go pop.
Way off topic again,
But would a decent snorkel, exhaust and tune get much out of one without affecting longevity??

Not alot.
15-20% more than standard but it wont effect longevity.

[hiy6o]

Hmmm must have one of the strong ones then , going on 6yrs at15psi 300hp STD internals.( 4.2 that is). It's all in the tuning, power can be safe if you have the right set up and don't compromise it .

[Northside 4x4]

Hmmm must have one of the strong ones then , going on 6yrs at15psi 300hp STD internals.( 4.2 that is). It's all in the tuning, power can be safe if you have the right set up and don't compromise it .

The 4.2's stand up to alot more.

Your dead right though, it is all in the tuning.

[bally]

just curious but what would a safe tune on a 4.8 be hp wise? dollars wise to achieve this and parts included etc? may look into doing this sometime soon..... engine has 135000 klm on it.

cheers josh

[hiy6o]

It really is a how much power / how much do you want to spend /what do you use it for kind of question.
The 4.8 is a very strong engine and can take alot, were you talking N/A or turbo ? Keep the motor standard or modified (stroke kits head etc) , you can fit a piggy back ecu and just tune what you have or go full plug in haltech and be ready for future mods .
The average piggy back and tune , i'd say $1200-1500 ball park . But maybe try an exhaust and high flow air cleaner first.

[bally]

sorry should have mentioned i was thinking of turbo. dont want to skimp on parts and quality but not looking for a hp monster, just decent increases that wont come close to being on the limit of its threshold, already done exhaust system and noticed no difference in power or fuel economy, just a sweet note

[MOO_R32]

i just had another look at the TB45 and TB42 rods i have in the shed and all i will say is good luck with that.

I know of 2 naturally aspirated TB45's that have broken conrods. You might say these are isolated failues and fatigue related, but it is interesting don't you think.

i would believe that because about 98% of people that seem to turbo their 4.5's seem to be doing it on a budget and in their back yard with random parts and ONCE AGAIN (as northside4x4 said as well) 99% of the success ratet with doing a turbo conversion it to do with the tune.. specially on what started out as a non turbo engine, MOST people seem to just bolt it on and drive.. (self explanatory, even if it is for a "quick test around the block" ull do potential fatal damage!!)

[MOO_R32]

sorry should have mentioned i was thinking of turbo. dont want to skimp on parts and quality but not looking for a hp monster, just decent increases that wont come close to being on the limit of its threshold, already done exhaust system and noticed no difference in power or fuel economy, just a sweet note

lol.. i seem to be doing alot of promoting 4 some reason.. ? but any way, id email turbotune.. they have a 4.8 bolt on kit too.. 280KW min on a standard motor with no problems.. with potential for more their websit has a pic of the kit layed out...

[MOO_R32]

think turbo tunes kit is under ten G drive in drive out.. but i see ur in qld.. send them an email..

That is super well priced. Did they have or send you a complete parts list?

turbo kit (cast manifold, billet alloy standard air box adapter, billet standard airflow meter adapter etc...)
oil, water line kit
genuine garret turbo (custom front housing, custom rear housing, custom actuator to run desired boost so no electronic boost control needed, custom front compressor wheel)
air intake kit (silicone, alloy pipe clamps etc..)
full front mount intercooler kit with alloy pipes, black sillicone and clamps
custom dump pipe (mates up to existin exhaust)
full bolt on 3" mandrel bent exhaust
power steering cooler kit (to make room for the fmic)
500hp in take fuel pump (direct replacment)
malpassi fuel pressure reg
greddy emanage fully programeable engine managment system (timing control, injector duty cycle control, fuel control, afm control)

[Northside 4x4]

Posting this on ROO32's behalf.

[MOO_R32]

ah cheers for posting that for me mate!! how come im not able to post pics?