Towing capacity up grade

[MADSHORT]

Hey does anybody know how to go about getting your tow ratting upgraded what i am looking at is chopping 80 series to a ute
I am building a car trailer that will have a ratting of 3500 kgs looking at towing cruisers
but 80 series is only rated at 2500 kgs
how can i get ratting higher
can i fit abs
cause abs cruisers are ratted at 3500 kgs
would this be all i need to do
need to know so when i get chop and trailing arm flip engineered i can get tow capacity done as well
cheers
Gordon

[bru21]

my 76 is rated at 3500 and no abs, only one cup holder!

[-Scott-]

only one cup holder!

Fark me! 1000kg for a cup of coffee? You must have some seriously big cups!

[phippsy]

As far as I know the only way to increase your towing capacity is to buy a post '96 cruiser. I have abs and 2 cupholders, maybe that's it...

[98lux]

I got no cup holder or ABS, but i do have 2 holder that fit a stubby and cooler in the fold down middle seat and 3500kg towing

[VooDoo]

There is no way to get it upgraded. I tried for ages and its just not possible. Firstly you need Toyota themselves to engineer it and give you a letter (not going to happen) then you need to get the DOT to accept it (not going to happen)

Pre-08/96 cars are 2500kg.
Post 08/96 are 3500kg

There is no way to get around it.

[Tazz]

Not quite true - well not in NSW any way. Some engineers will upgrade towing capacity. I know of a couple that have had them upgraded, one being a 60series with ute cut, 350chev, coil conversion on 80 series diffs and 37' wranglers.

He asked the engineer about upgrading the tow rating from 2500 to 3500 as it had late model 80 diffs and the engineer said yeh no probs.

Seamed odd to me to increase the towing capacity off a car running 37's but the engineer was happy to engineer whole car inc the 37's and increased towing capacity.

Now i'm not quite sure that this makes it legal though even if it is engineered?

Gordon, I'd suggest asking a few engineers if its possible to increase the rating and what you'd need, sooner or later you may find one that says "yeh no probs just do this this and this".

[MADSHORT]

Thanks Tazz is that Deanos
what year diffs do you remember
cheers

[drr]

Seen it done a few times, mostly landcruisers being upgraded above the 3500kg towball limit. They switch to a pintle hook setup and get engineered, new rating plate on the towbar so it's all official.

[Tazz]

Thanks Tazz is that Deanos
what year diffs do you remember
cheers

Yeh mate it is.
How ya been anyway?

[toy77]

Hi Guys,

I have had these discussions with my engineer here in NSW. Seemed to have no major issues. The patrol and the 80 series cruisers have simmilar differences in this reguard.
my 94 patrol has a 2500kg rating. this changed to 2800 i believe for the 97 models.
Then the gu which runs much the same chassis and driveline etc has 3500kg.
the ARB towbar is the same part for gq and gu and is rated to 3500kg.

My engineer said there had to be some mod to the vehicle to justify the upgrade - like heavy duty rear suspension + needed an appropriately rated towbar.

Cheers
Stew

[MADSHORT]

Going great thanks Tazz
could you post up some picks off Deanos i never got to see it finished
thanks toy77 i will give eng a call cause i need to know what he wants with ute chop any way
grafting back out of a lux into 80 single cab
cheers
Gordon

[BlueSuzy]

I've seen a few navara's towing huge horse floats around here.

They use a table like a semi trailer in the tub. But they towing weight would of still have to been upgraded.

I would think it would be braking power being the main thing, Like a GVM upgrade also.

[MADSHORT]

my way of thinking is if i chop say for example 1000kg of then why could i not tow 1000kg more
will find out when i call eng
yes a fifth wheeler would be nice but i think building that will blow my budget
and with the fifth wheeler you have the ball weight in front of rear diff which rates it much higher
cheers

[phippsy]

my way of thinking is if i chop say for example 1000kg of then why could i not tow 1000kg more
will find out when i call eng

I certainly do not see how a vehicle that is now a 1000kg lighter could possibly tow an extra 1000kg safely. I would be surprised if an enginer would even consider this as an option.

[VooDoo]

Hi Guys,

I have had these discussions with my engineer here in NSW. Seemed to have no major issues. The patrol and the 80 series cruisers have simmilar differences in this reguard.
my 94 patrol has a 2500kg rating. this changed to 2800 i believe for the 97 models.
Then the gu which runs much the same chassis and driveline etc has 3500kg.
the ARB towbar is the same part for gq and gu and is rated to 3500kg.

My engineer said there had to be some mod to the vehicle to justify the upgrade - like heavy duty rear suspension + needed an appropriately rated towbar.

Cheers
Stew

In QLD it doesnt matter what the engineer says, QLD transport will NOT under any circumstances upgrade the tow capacity

[Northside 4x4]

Hi Guys,

I have had these discussions with my engineer here in NSW. Seemed to have no major issues. The patrol and the 80 series cruisers have simmilar differences in this reguard.
my 94 patrol has a 2500kg rating. this changed to 2800 i believe for the 97 models.
Then the gu which runs much the same chassis and driveline etc has 3500kg.
the ARB towbar is the same part for gq and gu and is rated to 3500kg.

My engineer said there had to be some mod to the vehicle to justify the upgrade - like heavy duty rear suspension + needed an appropriately rated towbar.

Cheers
Stew

In QLD it doesnt matter what the engineer says, QLD transport will NOT under any circumstances upgrade the tow capacity

I agree 100% with that. I have done so much research into it, and have always found the answer to be no from DOT.

[vanbox]

As far as Im aware, there is a GU ute up north QLD that runs full airbag rear suspension and had a duramax + allison fitted. Engineer suggested and passed a GVM upgrade to 4500kg, and a towing capacity upgrade to 4500kg. Because it has a heavy duty engine and transmission, as well as "load leveling" rear suspension.

[Northside 4x4]

As far as Im aware, there is a GU ute up north QLD that runs full airbag rear suspension and had a duramax + allison fitted. Engineer suggested and passed a GVM upgrade to 4500kg, and a towing capacity upgrade to 4500kg. Because it has a heavy duty engine and transmission, as well as "load leveling" rear suspension.

But the point is, even if it has an engineering certificate.
Department of transport will not accept it in QLD.

So basically if your pulled over and the DOT/Cops fine you for it, you have an unroadworthy car.
Or if you have a big accident, your insurance can wipe you.

There is alot of things that go into determining the GVM/GCM of a vehicle.
Chasis rigidity, engine power/torque rating, braking capacity, engine braking capacity and so on.

[Shadow]

As far as Im aware, there is a GU ute up north QLD that runs full airbag rear suspension and had a duramax + allison fitted. Engineer suggested and passed a GVM upgrade to 4500kg, and a towing capacity upgrade to 4500kg. Because it has a heavy duty engine and transmission, as well as "load leveling" rear suspension.

But the point is, even if it has an engineering certificate.
Department of transport will not accept it in QLD.

So basically if your pulled over and the DOT/Cops fine you for it, you have an unroadworthy car.
Or if you have a big accident, your insurance can wipe you.

There is alot of things that go into determining the GVM/GCM of a vehicle.
Chasis rigidity, engine power/torque rating, braking capacity, engine braking capacity and so on.

4500kg GVM would actually make it a Truck as far as Qld Transport is concerened. And then it is a totally different ball game, and engineers do have alot more power in that area.

The question of whether the engineer can make a GU patrol a truck, another difficult one.

[love ke70]

just drive it

i know ive pulled over 5 on my trailer with my GQ. low range is a blessing and good brakes on the trailer...

[Gutless]

I've been talking to an engineer about increasing the tow rating on my sierra ute. And the base argument is that it is not a commercial vehicle. It does have the right classification to be a commercial vehicle (on build plate), so this is my next coarse of action. My engineer seems to think that if I can get QT to recognise it as a commercial, then the door is open for a myriad of modifications. I've done the motor, gearbox, diffs, brakes, driveshafts, chassis mods, suspension etc to support the argument already. So I'm shooting for a 1500kg rating. (currently a pathetic 450kg ) Tare is estimated at 1250kg.

Still, I'm not holding my breathe.

[Ricko]

just drive it

i know ive pulled over 5 on my trailer with my GQ. low range is a blessing and good brakes on the trailer...

NOT a good idea. The day you run up the arse of a Merc or worse, kill someone, you will regret being massively overloaded and have illegal everything else. Driving around, I doubt you will get pulled up for it, but that's not the point. You get away with it until someone gets hurt, then YOU pay the price.

[love ke70]

i know ill get flamed for this, but insurance still covers you.
unless your also drunk at the time. I specifically asked about driving vehicle whilst unroadworthy etc, and the answer was, as long as your not drink driving your covered.

Like i said though. highway im very careful, and once im off the highway if theres a few hills, up or down, im into the low range, engine braking and all 4 wheels on the trailer braked it will still pull up going down a hill which is off limits for heavy vehicles. that was with 3 cube of damp concrete blend and 30 bags of cement on the trailer, with all my gear on, so the ute starts at around 3.1.

I would rather tow the extra in a well built trailer, instead of doing what i used to do and what i see done, loading the back of the tray up with cement on top of the tool boxes, blend in the very back of the tray, and then as much as i could fit (about 3/4m) in a little 6x4 with 4 stud wheels on corolla rims and tyres I would drive it down the highway, and because the arse end was so low, and the front doing its best to not touch the ground, it was like driving not with a spring in each corner, but one in the centre front and rear, and it would wallow from side to side, would never sit flat.

so im all for guys looking to safely or atleast considering whats needed to do it safely in a trailer, instead of going over GVM which i cant help but think is worse than going over the gross combined...

[Ricko]

Yep, not saying you are unsafe. In a lot of cases I think the towing capacities are a joke. From one year to the next with little or no major differences in vehicle spec, a patrol goes from 2.5-3.5 tonne.

I wouldn't like to test the insurance theory...

[love ke70]

yeah me neither, ill read the PDS one day...

i will agree though, i can get too over weight, or an unbalanced load, too much weight in the back of my trailer (trailer is a 4.5 x 2.5 car carrier with .3m high sides and front and rear gates) and theres this certain section of motorway, damp road, and you run down hill lightly, in a sweeping right, that bounces up and runs back up mildly, and the trailer just got all kinds of spastic, and i ended up with a bank of traffic behind as i did 60kph, with the 4 lanes of the highway to myself tryin to stop the thing swaying, but thats what you get for towing wet dirt i spose, i was just lucky i learnt my lesson without rolling the ute, the trailer, or worse, phucking up someone else or their property/car

[SCANAS]

Calling DRS he's been there and tried this ......

[-Scott-]

i know ill get flamed for this, but insurance still covers you.
unless your also drunk at the time. I specifically asked about driving vehicle whilst unroadworthy etc, and the answer was, as long as your not drink driving your covered.

I don't know where you got this information, but as I understand insurance laws, this is VERY wrong.

An insurance company can only deny a claim if the accident was (essentially) caused by something "wrong" - like an at fault accident where the driver was over the alcohol limit, or the accident could most likely have been avoided but for the existence of a defect.

If you fail to stop while driving an overloaded vehicle (either GVM or GCM, regardless of the brakes on the trailer) the insurance company will consider if you could've stopped but for the excess weight. If they decide you should've been able to stop had the vehicle been loaded to manufacturer's specs, they'll deny the claim - whether the driver had been drinking or not.

If somebody else runs into the overloaded vehicle, and vehicle load wasn't a contributing factor to the accident, the insurance company has no grounds to deny the claim.

[love ke70]

your probably right, but the recorded conversation i had with the insurance company told me otherwise.
lets hope i never have to find out if that recorded conversation will stand up in court

[Shadow]

your probably right, but the recorded conversation i had with the insurance company told me otherwise.
lets hope i never have to find out if that recorded conversation will stand up in court

of course it wont.