Anyone racing a 1HZ/1HDT/1HDFT or 1HDFTE??

[CustomTurbos]

It will be interesting to see what you run out of first - air or fuel once turbo is on :-)

I dont think anyone has the software or knowledge on changing the rom on the side of the pump, as this is set when on a test bench. I also believe that to do anything with the ecu is also very difficult, not impossible.

Does that mean that you have remapped a nissan with a zd30 engine now? How did it go?

Andy

Nissan YD22. Basically done as prep for turbocharging it, for curiousity and to see what improvements could be made.
It took a huge amount of brain-smoke, I didn't count the hours. But I've been able to make it do what I wanted with no turbo, 0-100 time cut by 4 seconds and drivability improved heaps. Disabling the EGR and the EGR flow correction in the software filled a hole in the low rpm range. The car is currently off the road with a dead fuel pump (the usual VP44 failure, not my fault). Fuel consumption is similar to before but average speeds are much better. It used to be very slow, now it's just slow.

I'll be doing a YD25 (not commonrail) next which uses the same ECU. Local nissan dealers have a ZD30 ECU floating around, I should grab that one too.

The VP44 pump ECU basically correlates the two solenoid positions (spill and timing) to degrees advance and mg/shot of fuel injection. The ECU requests mg and degrees, the pump delivers. I can interchange YD22 and YD25DDTi ECU's and the YD22 runs fine, the YD25 spits error codes but still runs and I suspect would only have half the power (I only drove it around the lawn).

[KiwiBacon]

It will be interesting to see what you run out of first - air or fuel once turbo is on :-)

A tuner in Wales has just found the limits of the injection pump I'm using. 100cc/1000 strokes or approx 475Nm at the crank on the YD25.
I don't think I'll be using all of that. But interestingly the injection pump I've just fitted has a calibration problem, I have to request 50% more fuel than the previous pump to get the same performance. I hope this doesn't limit me to 66 cc of fuel.

I am getting closer. Oil supply and drain are now drilled and tapped into the block, factory manifold and heat-sheilds ordered. I have a gasket but can't start making an adapter until I know which way up it goes.

I fitted a gauge cluster with a tacho, but the ECU tacho pin is dead. Anyone know how to get a tacho signal from a nissan (mitsubushi) internal reg alternator so I can use a converter box?
I also fitted a whole lot of roof flashing tape for sound insulation. Massive improvement, should have done it years ago.

[RED60]

I note you have improved the 0 - 100 times by 4 seconds... I'd be interested to know what those times were... before and after... thnx

[Northside 4x4]

It will be interesting to see what you run out of first - air or fuel once turbo is on :-)

A tuner in Wales has just found the limits of the injection pump I'm using. 100cc/1000 strokes or approx 475Nm at the crank on the YD25.
I don't think I'll be using all of that. But interestingly the injection pump I've just fitted has a calibration problem, I have to request 50% more fuel than the previous pump to get the same performance. I hope this doesn't limit me to 66 cc of fuel.

I am getting closer. Oil supply and drain are now drilled and tapped into the block, factory manifold and heat-sheilds ordered. I have a gasket but can't start making an adapter until I know which way up it goes.

I fitted a gauge cluster with a tacho, but the ECU tacho pin is dead. Anyone know how to get a tacho signal from a nissan (mitsubushi) internal reg alternator so I can use a converter box?
I also fitted a whole lot of roof flashing tape for sound insulation. Massive improvement, should have done it years ago.

Is it a square wave or sine wave output Kiwi?

[KiwiBacon]

Is it a square wave or sine wave output Kiwi?

ECU output should have been a pulse of around 7V (the tacho works if I swap ECU's). Which is close enough to what you get from an alternator tacho lead. The converter box is to deal with any calibration issues.

[CustomTurbos]

I'll hopefully be posting soon on my FTE. I have a chip installed on it, custom turbo, big intercooler, exhaust, boost cut etc. With Chip at full setting, 1.25Bar is all clean :-( (2850kg, 0-100 10sec flat) So, the "Chip Express" chip is being removed and laptop programmable "Chipit" installed hopefully dynoed on Sat (by Chipit owner here in Perth).

I am hoping it can do > 650nm at 18:1, 1.6 bar cold boost (after hard run at 1.6 Bar, cooler is cold 2/3rd the way accorss (700mm core length).

With all hopefully additional torque, might need to trick the line prerssure solenoid on my A750F box.......

NS: I have been told that "255" is the max additional fuel setting - I assume this means something to you? I know when looking at a "Rapid" chip it also had "255" as the maximum setting.... I figure these chips are largely generic and rebadged as a marketing excercise. Also, can these chips reduce ecu mapped fuel as well as add it?

[CustomTurbos]

Maybe if you are careful on the throttle.... ;-) 475nm would be a nice amount of torque in a 1200kg vehicle.

100cc is apparantly what the FTE pump is also calibrated to! (so I have been told). I have also been told they are easy to recalibrate - so maybe yours is too. The ROM on the pump needs to be reflashed; apparantly as the pumps get older thats what they do to get more life out of them - simply recalibrate to 100cc.

Best, G

It will be interesting to see what you run out of first - air or fuel once turbo is on :-)

A tuner in Wales has just found the limits of the injection pump I'm using. 100cc/1000 strokes or approx 475Nm at the crank on the YD25.
I don't think I'll be using all of that. But interestingly the injection pump I've just fitted has a calibration problem, I have to request 50% more fuel than the previous pump to get the same performance. I hope this doesn't limit me to 66 cc of fuel.

[KiwiBacon]

I'll hopefully be posting soon on my FTE. I have a chip installed on it, custom turbo, big intercooler, exhaust, boost cut etc. With Chip at full setting, 1.25Bar is all clean :-( (2850kg, 0-100 10sec flat) So, the "Chip Express" chip is being removed and laptop programmable "Chipit" installed hopefully dynoed on Sat (by Chipit owner here in Perth).

I am hoping it can do > 650nm at 18:1, 1.6 bar cold boost (after hard run at 1.6 Bar, cooler is cold 2/3rd the way accorss (700mm core length).

With all hopefully additional torque, might need to trick the line prerssure solenoid on my A750F box.......

NS: I have been told that "255" is the max additional fuel setting - I assume this means something to you? I know when looking at a "Rapid" chip it also had "255" as the maximum setting.... I figure these chips are largely generic and rebadged as a marketing excercise. Also, can these chips reduce ecu mapped fuel as well as add it?

0-255 is the range of an 8 bit chip, so they're using 8 bit and 255 is as high as they can go. Exactly which point on the 8 bit scale corresponds to your stock setting and what the gain is are the two big questions.

[CustomTurbos]

Brilliant, thanks that makes alot more sense. So the commonality may well be the use of an 8 bit system rather than common hardware.

My diesel efficiency calculator shows that 100cc fuel at 3k should be 260 crank hp. Online power calc with 0-100 of 10sec and 2850kg gave 257hp....

It makes me afraid that the current chip has in fact maxed out the 100cc limit of the fuel pump :-( I hope I mam wrong about that; I'm a bit "over" mechanical changes at the moment!

The idea is once I know what the limit of the pump is, I will recalibrate the pump and redo the chip tune. Interim measure until an ecu remap is possible ;-)

I'll hopefully be posting soon on my FTE. I have a chip installed on it, custom turbo, big intercooler, exhaust, boost cut etc. With Chip at full setting, 1.25Bar is all clean :-( (2850kg, 0-100 10sec flat) So, the "Chip Express" chip is being removed and laptop programmable "Chipit" installed hopefully dynoed on Sat (by Chipit owner here in Perth).

I am hoping it can do > 650nm at 18:1, 1.6 bar cold boost (after hard run at 1.6 Bar, cooler is cold 2/3rd the way accorss (700mm core length).

With all hopefully additional torque, might need to trick the line prerssure solenoid on my A750F box.......

NS: I have been told that "255" is the max additional fuel setting - I assume this means something to you? I know when looking at a "Rapid" chip it also had "255" as the maximum setting.... I figure these chips are largely generic and rebadged as a marketing excercise. Also, can these chips reduce ecu mapped fuel as well as add it?

0-255 is the range of an 8 bit chip, so they're using 8 bit and 255 is as high as they can go. Exactly which point on the 8 bit scale corresponds to your stock setting and what the gain is are the two big questions.

[KiwiBacon]

I still reckon, whenever you reach the limits of the pump, fit a cummins 6BT VP44 and ECU.
Where else will you find a mappable 6 cyl rotary pump?

Any scope for bigger pump elements in the pump you have?

[CustomTurbos]

You know, I agree with you...to a point. That point is it depends on what those limits are.... I have an A750F gearbox and I've seen inside it - it didnt make me feel completely fear free when it comes to torque.... Theres another point too - the control of the A750F is done in the same ecu as the engine... I guess I could run 2 ecu's off the same TPS.....

In the USA they have alot of A750E/F autos and I am sure some of them are making big power. What I would also need is a multiplate torque converter.

If what I have been told is correct, that the pump rom can be reflashed to over 150cc (and I am starting to believe it is), then 1000nm+ is too much until I can find a gearbox solution.

Toyota manual isnt the answer either, unfortunately

Maybe put the old A442F in - there are aftermaket computers that can control those and they are a much bigger box than the A750F

I still reckon, whenever you reach the limits of the pump, fit a cummins 6BT VP44 and ECU.
Where else will you find a mappable 6 cyl rotary pump?

Any scope for bigger pump elements in the pump you have?

[TheBigBoy]

So I would like to know what gain I would get, just by bolting your turbo on my 1HDT and a tune. And then intercooled and retuned. Marko's 80 series gives a false reading as he has changed the diffs and gears. What would it get with stock 4.1's?? And running the same 35's?

[CustomTurbos]

So I would like to know what gain I would get, just by bolting your turbo on my 1HDT and a tune. And then intercooled and retuned. Marko's 80 series gives a false reading as he has changed the diffs and gears. What would it get with stock 4.1's?? And running the same 35's?

The power @ wheels will not change just by changing the diffs - the torque will go up in proportion to the wheel rpm going down, so the power is the same.

With a FMIC, 3" exhaust and 24psi, same base timing, so long as you engine and pump are in similar condition to Marko's then you will get ~ the same power at wheels at 19.3:1 AFR.

Thats lean mate, 19.3:1 at that power level is lean and clean. The boost could actually be dropped to 19psi and AFR's would be around 17:1 and you would likely pick up 3-5kW without any additional fuel. So, at say 20-22psi you should get a tad over the 200whp at ~ 17.5-18:1 which is a good target. Factory 1HD-FTE runs 17.5:1 at 3400 stock!!

Conversely, you should be able to leave boost at 24psi and wind the fuel in to drop the AFRs at 3000 to 17:1 and push out ~ 170kW @ wheels.

The later is exactly what Marko was going to do, in conjunction with an inlet manifold modification. As soon as his gearbox is repaired that is what is planned to happen.

It should be noted that the AFR's at 3000 were at or near 23:1 at higher bioost setting and were dropped back. Dropping back to 19.3:1 gave 4 more kW. Marko was heading off for a heavy going off road holiday around Tassie, so the AFR's were kept lean on power for low EGT's.

FYI: I took an 80 with a 1HDFT that had the towing spec turbo "Grunter" installed to the local Dyno Dynamics dyno. We ran up 141rwkW on 35" rubber (stock 4.1 Diffs). All exceited, we changed to a set of split rim skinnys to get a "huge number" and roll back up on dyno - there wasnt 1 single kW difference! Having said that, the 35" tyres were brand new Hankook (315mm) with an A/T tread, not a nasty muddy. But we are talking the same thing as a diff ratio change or even running in a different gear for that matter.

It should be noted that the type of dyno needs to be thought about - there are two manin types of chasis dynos - dynamic and inertia. On an inertia dyno tyre size can make a difference to low end torque (as in give marginly higher numbers than with smaller tyres but still lower than dynamic) as rotating inertia is to the square of the rotational speed and the ramp up is too quick to get the boost up. A dynamic dyno by comparison is retarded during the run to linearly increase rpm with time. As a result, these give more accurate low end torque values. Both typiclaly give ~ the same peak power values as peak power is at high rpm usually and the rotational interia is much higher and loads the engine longer.

The power of Markos was measured while being held on the retarder, full throttle at 3000rpm, so its very accurate. Often when trying the same thing at 2000rpm with the turbo and tune results in a smoked clutch if it hasnt been upgraded.

[CustomTurbos]

Not having done it myself but planning for it a while; A fellow in central Qld called me yesterday for a race spec turbo and said he had already done the inlet plenum mod on his 1HDT. He said doing nothing else than that changed exhaust smoke considerabley.

[TheBigBoy]

What is the mod to the inlet?

My pump being rebuilt as we speak with a few tweeks.
3" exhaust.
Contemplating the type of intercooler.
Tyres are 35 km2's
Gearbox and trans are rebuilt
Clutch is new excedy sports


For the loss of 9kw I would rather the grunter I think.

[CustomTurbos]

What is the mod to the inlet?

Cut top off plenum and weld on a aluminium tube to increase plenum size.

In theory it evens flow distribution to cylinders and therefore all cylinders run ~ same AFR's

Its a sound theory and if I had a 1HDT I would be doing it - sorry to 1HD-FT and FTe owners like myslef; the fuel lines run on top on the manifold so we can't do it so easily :-(

[TheBigBoy]

I thought welding to the manifold was a no no. Cant stop the pin holes that form. Why cant you just make a completely new intake manifold?

[CustomTurbos]

I thought welding to the manifold was a no no. Cant stop the pin holes that form. Why cant you just make a completely new intake manifold?

I never said you couldn't, but most owners want bang for your buck. I would have no qualms about welding onto the factory cast manifold. At the end of the day even if there were some minute pinholes, it isnt going to be a dealbreaker on an inlet manifold.

Simplicity is why I would do it - 4" tube, 4" end cap, 4"x2.5" conicical red on the front, slot the tube, cut the top off the manifold and weld on and wallah!

TD42 owners have been doing it for a while now (they box it ouit as a triangle, but I would prefer the use of tube) and the results are proven by Nissan guy's - higher AFR's doing nothing but the mod.

[TheBigBoy]

[quote="CustomTurbos"]
FYI: I took an 80 with a 1HDFT that had the towing spec turbo "Grunter" installed to the local Dyno Dynamics dyno. We ran up 141rwkW on 35" rubber (stock 4.1 Diffs). All exceited, we changed to a set of split rim skinnys to get a "huge number" and roll back up on dyno - there wasnt 1 single kW difference! Having said that, the 35" tyres were brand new Hankook (315mm) with an A/T tread, not a nasty muddy. But we are talking the same thing as a diff ratio change or even running in a different gear for that matter.

[quote]

Was this 1HDFT intercooled?

[RED60]

Simplicity is why I would do it - 4" tube, 4" end cap, 4"x2.5" conicical red on the front, slot the tube, cut the top off the manifold and weld on and wallah!

TD42 owners have been doing it for a while now (they box it ouit as a triangle, but I would prefer the use of tube) and the results are proven by Nissan guy's - higher AFR's doing nothing but the mod.

CT, can you do a stick drawing of the tube manifold/modifaction you mention here and I also have another Q on the equalization of AFRs across the Nissan motors..... did the results come from multi pyros in the exhaust manifold or what....

[Northside 4x4]

Its almost impossible to make an ideal manifold for the 1hd-fte as the inejctor lines run over the plenum, and bonnet clearance is an issue also.

What CT has said, the increased volume is the only way to try and help it breath. But I have some doubts that the forward entry will help over all flow distribution.

[KiwiBacon]

If the plenum is large enough then the entry point won't matter much.

[Northside 4x4]

If the plenum is large enough then the entry point won't matter much.

Thats the problem though. How do you make it alot larger?

[KiwiBacon]

If the plenum is large enough then the entry point won't matter much.

Thats the problem though. How do you make it alot larger?

The $1M question is: "How many cylinders worth of volume do we need in the plenum?"

I don't know the answer, I'll bet it takes a fair bit of CFD to know for sure. Once we know the volume, making it fit is just work.

[CustomTurbos]

If the plenum is large enough then the entry point won't matter much.

Thats the problem though. How do you make it alot larger?

The $1M question is: "How many cylinders worth of volume do we need in the plenum?"

I don't know the answer, I'll bet it takes a fair bit of CFD to know for sure. Once we know the volume, making it fit is just work.

I love playing the numbers game but often I will just "do it". As in, hmmm I have these limitations of time, space and money..... lets make it the best I can.....

The engine I referred to was a 1HDT, so this engine can have the inlet manifold mod done. The owner used a 3" tube, slotted, welded on top of manifoldthat had top removed and claims it made a significant improvement. I have no doubt it made a significant improvement; I have looking at the 1HDT/1HZ inlet manifold for years with disdain.... Ive even seen when running way too much air for smoke that it seemed to "pulse" smoke (injectors and compression fine) when pushing ~ 600nm and I attributed it to inlet manifold at the time but sold the car before I modified it.

If "I" were to do it, I would use a 4" ally tube plenum with a 2.5" feed as a gut feel that it would be sufficient if not perfect. A front entry is not ideal, but as NZPork ;-) said "if the plenum is big enough it wont matter much" The other thing of course is there is not any bellmouthing of each inlet and that would also help....

heres my catch cry if you will:

"Perfect is expensive, but close can be cheap"

[CustomTurbos]

FYI: I took an 80 with a 1HDFT that had the towing spec turbo "Grunter" installed to the local Dyno Dynamics dyno. We ran up 141rwkW on 35" rubber (stock 4.1 Diffs). All exceited, we changed to a set of split rim skinnys to get a "huge number" and roll back up on dyno - there wasnt 1 single kW difference! Having said that, the 35" tyres were brand new Hankook (315mm) with an A/T tread, not a nasty muddy. But we are talking the same thing as a diff ratio change or even running in a different gear for that matter.

Was this 1HDFT intercooled?

yes, generic eBay FMIC 600x300x75 Dynoed on one dyno 145kW, another 141kW @ wheels (in 2wd, 35" tyres). Goes "Alot" harder now with the Bad Boy, but we have been plauged with gremlins to get any power figures... yet

By the way, NS will have a chance to tune an 80 with 1HDFT Auto with one of my turbos very soon, when the owner saves up some $. Probably early in the year. The 80 is up and running, just needs a tune - he's a young fella on the Gold Coast.

[TheBigBoy]

This is why turbo diesels are soooo hard. A guy over here with 30 years experience (who hiflows ct26's) has told me that the factory pistons wont handle more than 16psi. And Im also currently getting my pump rebuilt and bench tested by a different guy. He wants to set it up differently to take the new turbo and intercooler.

How come everything I hear always contradicts itself?

[CustomTurbos]

This is why turbo diesels are soooo hard. A guy over here with 30 years experience (who hiflows ct26's) has told me that the factory pistons wont handle more than 16psi. And Im also currently getting my pump rebuilt and bench tested by a different guy. He wants to set it up differently to take the new turbo and intercooler.

How come everything I hear always contradicts itself?

Actually you are lucky there is some real info nowdays. And I would say its not hard to do a Diesel but is to work through the BS.

Well, the same guy highflows CT26's also says pistons are only good for 16psi? Dont buy a hiflow turbo from him is what I say. And dont let him tune your truck either. If he has experienced blow ups at 16psi then he's running way too rich - high EGT's.

Pump wise, if you are going to bother setting the pump up on the bench different to standard, then you better be 100% on the numbers first.

* plotted VE vs rpm?
* plotted turbo efficiency map? And I dont just mean a compressor map - what about turbiine response?
* intercooler efficency?
* plotted BSFC vs rpm?
* plotted all the above with a set of design criteria? ie: what are you trying to achieve??

If you havent, then get the pump built DEAD STOCK. ALL the tune can be done with the pump on the car and whatever the pump is set up to, even if done with a good design brief, it still wont be quite right and will need adjustment on the car anyway and the effort involved in doing this is no different at all whether it was set differently on the bench or not. In my opinion, stock is the best place to start.

If you want a well designed system with the best bang for your buck, do the mods I mentioned (intercooler, exhaust, inlet manifold) and tell me what torque you want and whats the max boost you are happy with (the two are related) and I can tell you how the pump needs to be setup and it will be darn close. But, as I said, you can do it on the car anyway.

I tell it like it is, this isnt BS mate, you are lucky the the R&D has been done and your in a good position to not just be another owner throwing big bucks at a result that is unsafe, underperforming or both.

This guy high flows turbos - probably changes the comp wheel (7MGTE wheel or T04e wheel etc).... thats what is commonly called a high flow. Mine arent generic "high flow", they are optimised on both hot and cold ends and rotating parts and bearings and they work.

So in 30 years, what has this guy done thats noteworthy on the 1H"x "engines?

EDIT: The other thing about getting pumps setup on bench is that the setup is only as good as the dilligence of the guy setting it up. If it's United Fuel in Perth or Swafftec or Diesel Tec in Melbourne or guys klike these then OK. Thos guys will listen. Alot of other shops "have there own ideas" and think "theey know best". So they dont *really* listen. Alot of that is fair enough because alot of people with a bit of knowledge (ie: the right amount to be dangerous) come to their shop and they get sick and tired from talking to them and hearing their banter.

[CustomTurbos]

What is the mod to the inlet?

My pump being rebuilt as we speak with a few tweeks.
3" exhaust.
Contemplating the type of intercooler.
Tyres are 35 km2's
Gearbox and trans are rebuilt
Clutch is new excedy sports


For the loss of 9kw I would rather the grunter I think.

Its not the whole story, the afrs were lower at 141kW (17-17.5). So EGT's were higher at 18psi 141kW with 1HDFT than at 24psi 150kW on 1HDT.

This is the very reason I prefer people to tell me what they are trying to achieve and tailor the turbo to match the requirements. If it was really that simple, I wouldnt have to spend 90% of my time trying to dispell rumours and incorrect info about modifying or changing turbos for these engines.

[TheBigBoy]

Do you have the dyno sheet for the grunter? I know my 1HDT is not going to win any drag races. And with only 100hp currently, I honestly couldnt decide between the 2 ATM.

Would eco be better with the grunter? I would want low egts for long life. I plan to do long k's sitting on 100 and loaded with camping gear etc. And then want as much grunt off the line as possible to get up out of the soft sand.