Suzuki- First Time Comp Truck Build

[showtime393]

Hi there everyone,
Been wanting to build a comp truck for quite some years now but never really had the funds or time to do so.
Finally circumstances are right and I have been able to make a start.
At first i was thinking GQ diffs and an rb30 turbo and patrol 5 speed on a suzuki chassis and body. But since starting I have decided that the extra work and strengthening that it will take to fit such heavy running gear into such a light chassis will out way any gains it will give. So I have decided to go with a set of hilux diffs and maybe an SR20 instead.
My plan is to start from a bare chassis and fit diffs, then engine and gearbox/transfer and then work out how I'm going to fit the body and bar work.
First off I have some questions to ask tho's of you which have already done such conversions and find out as much info as I can before I start fabricating.
I will try and keep it as brief as possible and get to the point.

1: How strong are hilux diffs? (will they spin 35's with out a drama, are 37's to much to ask out of them)

2: From what I have researched most people are running 3or4 link front and 4 link rear, what is the ideal set-up for all round comps?

3: When setting up my coil set-up, I am basing alot of my design on pictures and info picked up from other trucks, Is this how most have done it? Or is it a matter of trial and error, set it up and if it doesn't work change it? I know enough to make it work but I'm sure there is alot of technical stuff I don't know that could be beneficial. Has there been certain builds that most people have learnt off or measured from?

I havn't aimed my build at a class of competition yet, It's just something I love doing, (building cars) when I get a little further down the track i will start looking at classes and figure out which one my truck is most suited to and run with it.
Any advice appreciated, Cam

[BlueSuzy]

rb30, You may as well buy a whole pootrol! rb30 is a long motor. Might not fit in the front of a zook.

sr20, Few have done it. Guy on here has matched it up with hilux box/trans for strength. Little search or someone else may find him. Fit engine, then do front links. Otherwise you might not get sump clearances right and can be messy.

1. You can build them strong. Set of chromo's will help. Hilux's can be built tough.
2. Most do 3link front and 4link rear. If you have room, run a 4link front with hydro steer. Depending on comp rules i guess. Zooks are pretty tight with space though in the front. Depends if you keep the chassis rails stock.
3. 4link calculators and 3link calculators are your friend for handling charactistics, But they wont help you set height of coils etc. There is a ton involved. And alot can be found with searching each item.
Calcs: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=703433" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Later versions the better.

There is another actual writeup of how to do 4links, but can't find it, lost all my old bookmarks as i changed computers..

[showtime393]

Ok cheers for the info and the links.
Still trying to get my head around this calculator. What is it going to tell me?
I'm at work for the next 2 weeks so i will make a start as soon as I get back.
I just purchased a complete 85 hilux ute running for my transplant, should get most of what I need from it.
Will standard lux axles spin 35's or will I need chromo's before I try spin any decent rubber?
I might start out with standard axles and then upgrade once my truck is nearing completion.
For the next 2 weeks I will be researching for everything I need to know, so keep the advice comming
Cheers Cam

[BlueSuzy]

There is plenty of lux's running around on 35's with stock axles. But really depends on the rest of your driveline and how you drive.

I just went chromos', Cheap insurance and built right the 1st time.

I'm abit limited with my advice. Building a zook atm and working things out as i go, But someone else might pipe up.

[showtime393]

Thanks anyway for the info. Only reason being is I'm thinking 37's but I have a set of 35's already so i might start out with 35's and buy 37's when I get to my diff rebuilds. After reading alot more about the calculators I'm starting to get my head around it. Now all I need is a windowas comp with exel to punch in my numbers.
Got some good news today, Only 1 week at work, so home for Christmas and new years.
Looks like I might get to make a start on fabing this year, Can't wait

[navaraD40]

Looking forward to seeing this evolve.

[showtime393]

Just got my Iphone fixed, So when I get home I'll start taking some pics for you all to see.
Is there any difference in a 1ltr chassis, compared to the 1.3?
Where is a good place to buy adjustable rod ends from in Aus?
Still got some cutting, dummy fitting and measuring to do before I can order, but I'll do as much research as I can while I'm at work.

[Bentzook]

you need 40s

[grimbo]

What comps are you going to enter? What mods do they allow? What level of legality or engineering do they require?

[showtime393]

Well I'm in the process of finding out what comps to enter and rules and regulations. Still waiting for my mudrino membership to be approved to find out info on comps here in Vic.
Would be nice to see some already done trucks to copy and get Ideas.
I havn't yet contacted an engineer as I'm not 100% on how I want things to go.
Pick up my hilux tomorrow and I just got my iPhone back, so hopefully have pics up tomOrrow.

[mrRocky]

sr20 is a huge job, why not just do a 1600 16v and work on the suspension
not trying to deter you but it gets real depressing when you bite of more than you can chew and cant see the light at the end of the tunnel, just do the necessities first and work on a power up later would be my advice

[Gwagensteve]

You'll find there are very few comps running in Vic at the moment.

Speak to an engineer before you start buying parts you might find you can't engineer for road use.

IMHO there's not enough comp stuff available in Vic to bother building a "comp" car - much better to build a capable recreational car. Comp rules are retarded if you want to compete in a suzuki anyway.

Steve.

[flyinwall]

Gwagon so what you are saying is he wont be able to travel to other states and compete if he wants to

just to throw another option in for you to think about
there is another motor g/box t/case option that everyone either forgets about (or more likely doesnt know about) and that is the motor g/box out of a Kia Sportage they are a 2 lt efi twin cam approx 100kw (and they are actually a mazda FE3) and the transfer outputs are on the correct side as well
i dont think it would be too hard to put the dash gauges in either (and you would get the speedo and tacho and all the warning lights as well)

[Bentzook]

You got to decide, Comp car or Rego car. Completely different spec. Alot of comps in NSW don`t need rego anymore.
Build one to do both means wasting alot of coin with stupid engineers and rules that wont make a very good Comp rig.
A good start:
Comp rig needs, v6 , auto, dual hilux-cases, 60 series diffs with 80 series Cv`s, 40" Treps, rear-steer, rear disco, spools, Exo cage, dual winches to start with

[johnsy86]

A good start:
Comp rig needs, v6 , auto, dual hilux-cases, 60 series diffs with 80 series Cv`s, 40" Treps, rear-steer, rear disco, spools, Exo cage, dual winches to start with

why? yours doesnt have all those things? it doesnt need half those things to have fun in and be competative.

[Bentzook]

coming last isnt fun or competitive, but thats how I might build the next one

[navaraD40]

How is this going?

[johnsy86]

coming last isnt fun or competitive, but thats how I might build the next one

well the last 2 winners of tuff truck whernt even running rear steer, so wow guess u dont need all those things

[flyinwall]

and i dont think Rhett has a v6 or dual winches in his zook

[lay80n]

and i dont think Rhett has a v6 or dual winches in his zook

Pretty sure Rhett has front and rear suck down winches. IMHO they are essential to be at the top end of the field. Rear steer not so much (though DIG is essential if no rear steer, and i think essential overall). V6 maybe not, but at least a decent engine that has a large usable rev range is pretty much a given. Dan won TTC with a 300,000KM old G16B 2 years back.

But the biggest difference between comp rigs is SEAT TIME for the driver and navigator, and RELIABILITY. All the fancy tricks dont help when its broke or you drove it on the wrong line into a tree.


As a few people have said, narrow down what you want to do with the rig and then build from there on the requirements. To compete in NSW and do well a rego'd car is a waste of time and you will trash it.


Layto.....

[showtime393]

Ok so here's a little progress Update.
First I'll start by with a progress update and then try get some questions answered in another post.

Here's my first step of my project, Stripped my Suzuki back to bare chassis and sold as much as I could and put the rest into scrap metal.
This is also a little recycling project of mine. I figure the more I can sell and scrap, the less this is going to cost all up.


Here's the 1982 18r hilux I purchased with the money from scrap steel and various other sold car parts.


Removed diffs and started on gearbox/transfer, here is my diff's sitting under suzuki chassis with ruff hilux spacing.


Next up is to strip diffs of axles and mounts, remove gearbox/transfer and source low kms s13 SR20DET.

P.s. if anyone needs any hilux parts, send me a PM

[showtime393]

sr20 is a huge job, why not just do a 1600 16v and work on the suspension
not trying to deter you but it gets real depressing when you bite of more than you can chew and cant see the light at the end of the tunnel, just do the necessities first and work on a power up later would be my advice

My reason for SR20, is because I want something that is going to reliably make power. A standard SR20 would rip the doors off a 16v and has room for more if needed. Power, reliability, availability and upgradability is most of the reasons i want an SR20. An SR20 with highflowed turbo should be very responsive as well as make power enough to be competitive.

[showtime393]

You got to decide, Comp car or Rego car. Completely different spec. Alot of comps in NSW don`t need rego anymore.
Build one to do both means wasting alot of coin with stupid engineers and rules that wont make a very good Comp rig.
A good start:
Comp rig needs, v6 , auto, dual hilux-cases, 60 series diffs with 80 series Cv`s, 40" Treps, rear-steer, rear disco, spools, Exo cage, dual winches to start with

Comp Car is something I have been aiming at from the beginning. Was getting mixed info on whether or not rego was needed to compete.
I'm thinking Club reg will be fine.
V6= heavy, I'm trying to keep as much of the light weight advantages of the zook as posible. I feel an SR20 can achieve as much if not more.

Auto: I am starting to feel that maybe an Auto would be a better option, but hilux gearbox/transfer is so easy as I already have. I know some pro's and cons but is an auto a must? is there guys using manuals with good results?

Dual transfer's: Is this necessary?

Diff's: I'm confident hilux diffs and chromo axles will hold up and 37's should be adequate

Rear steer: havn't really considered this, cost seems to out weigh advantages.

The rest is all on the cards in good time.

[lay80n]

You got to decide, Comp car or Rego car. Completely different spec. Alot of comps in NSW don`t need rego anymore.
Build one to do both means wasting alot of coin with stupid engineers and rules that wont make a very good Comp rig.
A good start:
Comp rig needs, v6 , auto, dual hilux-cases, 60 series diffs with 80 series Cv`s, 40" Treps, rear-steer, rear disco, spools, Exo cage, dual winches to start with

Comp Car is something I have been aiming at from the beginning. Was getting mixed info on whether or not rego was needed to compete.
I'm thinking Club reg will be fine.
V6= heavy, I'm trying to keep as much of the light weight advantages of the zook as posible. I feel an SR20 can achieve as much if not more.

Auto: I am starting to feel that maybe an Auto would be a better option, but hilux gearbox/transfer is so easy as I already have. I know some pro's and cons but is an auto a must? is there guys using manuals with good results?

Dual transfer's: Is this necessary?

Diff's: I'm confident hilux diffs and chromo axles will hold up and 37's should be adequate

Rear steer: havn't really considered this, cost seems to out weigh advantages.

The rest is all on the cards in good time.

If you want to crawl, then an auto is almost a must (IMHO anyway). Some guys do run an manual (Rhett) but the large majority are auto. The extra control you have far outweighs the few downsides. I agree with the V6 and extra weight logic too. Keep it small, light and stable. Dual transfers are not nessasary, but good gearing is. Which ever way you go make sure you can get good low gearing out of it. Rear steer isnt essential (again IMHO) but it can come in quite handy. A rear disconnect and cutting brakes would be cheaper and just as useful if not more so, you will be supprised how handy just being able to drive in FWD only is, let alone being able to dig.

All in all, how you set up your rig is a very personal choice. My opinion is probably different to yours, and to Marcus above. None of us are wrong, its just what we like to wheel. Marcus has a very neat well set up zook that works really well for his driving While there are some definate do's and don'ts, a lot of it comes down to how YOU like the rig setup. Have you ever been for a ride or driven a Tuff truck level rig?


Layto....

[Bentzook]

Rear steer: havn't really considered this, cost seems to out weigh advantages.


When we did our rear-steer, I googled the whole job before starting. After completing the job and documenting [50+ photos] It was one easy job and only half day to complete. Check my "how to rear-steer" build on that. Cost only explodes if you go the whole hog, [ Longfields, 6 shooter Hi-steer arms/knuckles, full hydro ], but if you want it to last, you need some strength in it.
If you cost it all out, youre better going 404 Mog diffs, they work out cheaper if you import them yourself.,,,, `cause one day you may need some 44s

[showtime393]

Been doing alot of thinking. I'm now thinking of using a trimatic with hilux dual transfers.
Does anyone know if there is an adapter for this? I know promatics do a bellhousing for sr20 to trimatic, but what about a transfer adapter?
I have checked marks site but only found adapters for turbo auto's and glides. Do Marks make custom adapters on requeast?

[flyinwall]

do you know what sort of auto your motor came out with if it was an asian warner you should be able to bolt the bellhousing from an auto sr20 to a hilux auto and just get the torque converter modified

[showtime393]

do you know what sort of auto your motor came out with if it was an asian warner you should be able to bolt the bellhousing from an auto sr20 to a hilux auto and just get the torque converter modified

If I were to do this, it would limit me to a hilux auto. I want something simple light and practical. trimatic seems to tick all the boxes.
Dellow also make bellhousings to mount an trimatic behind an sr20.
Are guys using transbrakes in comp trucks?

[V.W.Dave]

I will give a little advise I was given a few times but stupidly ignored when I first started building my rig. Go out and have a drive /ride in a few comp spec cars so you can feel and understand how well they or how they dont work.
As already said above there is a 100 different ways to build these things and there are thousands if not millions of ways not to. A good idea con go horably wrong really quick. So far honestly you have been given some good all around advise. I will give my views but ones again as already stated they are my views will be different to others.

The very first thing you need to think about is will it be a trailer queen and will it have rego and if so does it need to be "legaly road worthy" second thing is what are you wanting to drive on a regular bases? Rocks? Mud? Trails?

I drive mostly rock I stay as far away from mud as I can. So I built mine with more ground clearance and a lot of ground cleance compaired to most rigs. But that is not for everyone.

I will be the first one to tell you the twin transfer sr20 idea is not a good one unless your thinking of having a wheel base of around 110"+. That engine/trans combo will be really long and the shifters for the transfers will be coming up behind the front seat.
I looked at about 6 different combos and it all came down to 1. Stick with the Vitara 1.6efi and if it dosnt have enough power look at putting a hair dryer on it. It has been done a 100000000 times and it works. A few years ago there was some one that made a graph on power to weight on the options for the sierra and the G16 was the best option.

Stick with hilux diffs if your looking to keep it light. Once again this was some advice I didnt lissen to ( I used 60 landcruiser diffs) If you put the wide body kit on a front housing and use a late IFS rear it is plenty wide enough for any zook.
I was looking in to the mog diffs and they are really cool but REALLY heavy and their strength is questionable under adverse loads. (full lock wheel spins) and parts are not cheap when they brake.

Hilux diffs with 5.28 diffs are the best all around option.

Rear steer is also a really cool thing but honestly go watch a comp or two and you will realise that out of the 8 or so trucks that show up with it only 1 or 2 of them know how to actualy use it and use it well. The rear disconect for your first buggy is by far a better option.

If i could go back and restart my build (I am truely thinking about doing this) I would have 1.6 efi with auto into a 6.5 transfer with lux diffs 5.28 on 40" treps 4 link front and rear coil over air shocks all around. wheel base around 105" if it had rear steer I would make it a little longer. I would keep the belly about 550mm off the ground.

But as I have said everyone will have a different idea.

Lissen to Gman as he is from your area and he has forgoten more then most of us will ever remember about zuki suspension set up.

Look up 11-EVL s build up and if you jump on Auszookers Bluesuzi has a fantastic LWB that has been rebuild from the ground up to be road leagal on 35s. Both of them have tons of tech that will help you out.

[showtime393]

Ok Thanks VW Dave. Thats the sort of answers I was looking for.
I think it's only ever going to be a trailer queen and I would like to enter the tuff truck challenge if I get that far. More rock driving but also capable recreational vehicle.
I'm hearing you on the dual transfers, I was considering a linkage set-up to bring levers forward.
As for the g16, I'm not quite with you there. An sr20det on standard internals will make 200rwkw easy and reliably. I'm sick of stuffing around with older model motors trying to mod them and push them. Would rather something that will run reliably all day every day and make good power.
Size is going to be the issue I guess. SR20, trimatic and hilux transfer is going to be on the long side. I was hoping for around the 100" wheelbase mark.
If I choose to go single hilux transfer, Is there gears that will get me the ratio's I will need?