OFFROAD BOSS KING OF THE RIM 2012

[Rolly]

After all of the positive feedback in regards to race suits, Mitch and I have decided that this year it will be compulsary to wear a minimum Single Layer SFI Certified Race suit. If you have a look at the link, http://hunterrivmasta.com.au/products/P ... m?pcatid=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , you can see they these suits are not expensive. This will be the first step in making our sport safer and more professional.

Along side a suit, each competitor must wear either leather boots, or cerified race footwear. For any team running without a windscreen, gloves must be worn by both driver and navigator at all times. It is highly recommended, but not enforced as yet, for teams to either wear full face helmets with a visor, or motox googles. The helmet rule will become cumpolsory in 2013.

These safety changes are for your own good, and you have ample time to prepare before November.

Regards,
Brett and Mitch

[XTREME MMM]

After all of the positive feedback in regards to race suits, Mitch and I have decided that this year it will be compulsary to wear a minimum Single Layer SFI Certified Race suit. If you have a look at the link, http://hunterrivmasta.com.au/products/P ... m?pcatid=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , you can see they these suits are not expensive. This will be the first step in making our sport safer and more professional.

Along side a suit, each competitor must wear either leather boots, or cerified race footwear. For any team running without a windscreen, gloves must be worn by both driver and navigator at all times. It is highly recommended, but not enforced as yet, for teams to either wear full face helmets with a visor, or motox googles. The helmet rule will become cumpolsory in 2013.

These safety changes are for your own good, and you have ample time to prepare before November.

Regards,
Brett and Mitch

One question. No maybe two.

Why? This is just putting more cost onto the competitor.

Leather competition boots:- Do they work on wet rock or dry rocks for that mater, safety is first.

Don't forget guys that the codriver is out of the car more then what these suits were meant for.

I would be more concerned about vehicle safety then what the driver or codriver wears.

Cheers MMM

[WICKED]

Why?

safety is first.

Are you ever positive about anything your not involved in?

[Rolly]

After all of the positive feedback in regards to race suits, Mitch and I have decided that this year it will be compulsary to wear a minimum Single Layer SFI Certified Race suit. If you have a look at the link, http://hunterrivmasta.com.au/products/P ... m?pcatid=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , you can see they these suits are not expensive. This will be the first step in making our sport safer and more professional.

Along side a suit, each competitor must wear either leather boots, or cerified race footwear. For any team running without a windscreen, gloves must be worn by both driver and navigator at all times. It is highly recommended, but not enforced as yet, for teams to either wear full face helmets with a visor, or motox googles. The helmet rule will become cumpolsory in 2013.

These safety changes are for your own good, and you have ample time to prepare before November.

Regards,
Brett and Mitch

One question. No maybe two.

Why? This is just putting more cost onto the competitor.

Leather competition boots:- Do they work on wet rock or dry rocks for that mater, safety is first.

Don't forget guys that the codriver is out of the car more then what these suits were meant for.

Neck braces are a must, more so then a pretty suit that is going to set you back at least $175.

I can understand better Team clothing to be worn rather then stubbies & singlet.

I would be more concerned about vehicle safety then what the driver or codriver wears.

Knock me if you want, but think back, I was the first (apart from CAMS) to bring in all the safety gear that is common now (Australia wide), and it created a lot of fuss then. But then again I am a winch challenge person, yes that boring event as some of you have said. But guess what that is where it all started.

Cheers
MMM

just one reply maybe two .
you were at the last kotr and you would have seen that the co driver is in the car as much as the driver .
you should have also seen that all competitors were made to wear long pants and sleeved shirts.
i would rather wear leather upper boots than have my nylon shoes melt to my feet with heat......
it really depends on the sole of a boot (whether leather , nylon or whatever) what grip you would get on wet rock..
we have had only positve feedback regarding the introduction of the race suits from our competitors and there has been no decision made at this stage on the neck pillows .
we dont just make the rules up and enforce them we do have a discussion area on the net were all this is done.
you should look in your own back yard before you start cutting your neighours grass.
as for your last comment - i am not even going to bother replying to it

cheers brett

[Havoc Racing]

After all of the positive feedback in regards to race suits, Mitch and I have decided that this year it will be compulsary to wear a minimum Single Layer SFI Certified Race suit. If you have a look at the link, http://hunterrivmasta.com.au/products/P ... m?pcatid=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , you can see they these suits are not expensive. This will be the first step in making our sport safer and more professional.

Along side a suit, each competitor must wear either leather boots, or cerified race footwear. For any team running without a windscreen, gloves must be worn by both driver and navigator at all times. It is highly recommended, but not enforced as yet, for teams to either wear full face helmets with a visor, or motox googles. The helmet rule will become cumpolsory in 2013.

These safety changes are for your own good, and you have ample time to prepare before November.

Regards,
Brett and Mitch

One question. No maybe two.

Why? This is just putting more cost onto the competitor.

Leather competition boots:- Do they work on wet rock or dry rocks for that mater, safety is first.

Don't forget guys that the codriver is out of the car more then what these suits were meant for.

Neck braces are a must, more so then a pretty suit that is going to set you back at least $175.

I can understand better Team clothing to be worn rather then stubbies & singlet.

I would be more concerned about vehicle safety then what the driver or codriver wears.

Knock me if you want, but think back, I was the first (apart from CAMS) to bring in all the safety gear that is common now (Australia wide), and it created a lot of fuss then. But then again I am a winch challenge person, yes that boring event as some of you have said. But guess what that is where it all started.

Cheers
MMM

Some people really should not be allowed near a computer

[sloshy]

http://www.bryke.com/RQP-1100/Racequip+Fire+Suit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rolly]

thanks sloshy for the link those those race suits are cheapa again thats great.

[cut 4B]

dave are you serious there are 2 guys trying to have a go and make the sport grow and safe i think the race suits are a great idea if you dont like it go play with your winch comps and leave this style of racing the fark alone

[XTREME MMM]

Changed mu first post.

I am not trying to bag anything that anyone is doing regards safety, but it is my personal opinion that the vehicle safety is more of a concern at the moment then special clothing. But then again what do I know.


Cheers
Have a nice Saturday.

[Dover]

Dave MMM i really don't know where you get off being so critical to all the other comps that people are trying to get up and started.
Yes you may have started the 4wding comp scene many moons ago but then again we used to all run around naked and clubbing each other, its called evolution.
This sport is changing all the time and what people want is changing it just so happens that the Thorpes have volenteered there time to run this event which to them and the competitors is very new.
You have been doing your comps for many years and i bet you still havent got it right and are changing things to suit new people coming through.
The decission on race suits has been made from competitor feed back not just some rooster and bull idea that someone has come up.

But then again what do I know.

Obviously not enough about KOTR. Once again you are voicing your opinion without doing your homework.
Not once has there been a discussion about vehicle safety being jeopardized and minimized so that they can run race suits.

Why? This is just putting more cost onto the competitor

Its still going to be cheaper with a race suit and entry than competing in some of your events.

[XTREME MMM]

But then again what do I know.

It is a pity that you do not put the full quote there, and not half of it.

Vehicle safety = Driver & codriver safety.

Just a thing on the boots. Does this mean that the rock fishing boots will not be allowed? As these are the safest type of boots for anyone expected to get out of the vehicle on wet or dry rocks, muddy slopes or anywhere traction is needed. Again this is only my opinion, which appears that you don't like.

Cheers
Have a nice Saturday night.

[pricey]

I agree 100% with MMM and with his enforcement on safety gear to be worn way back when winch challenges were beginning, as he has laid the platform for safety standards within the sport. For that MMM should be and has been held in high regards.

I applaud the decision to enforce fire suits to be worn in the high speed events. Its a safety first approach to a growing sport where speed is a factor, and vehicles are pushed big time.

All you need to do is watch ANY type of speed motorsport eg F1, V8 Supercars, World Championship Rally and every competitor HAS to wear a fire suit. The complex rollcage systems in any of these cars are second to none in engineering and quality standards (and yes i realise they have stringent testing done) but are still required to wear these suits.

With any motorsport, vehicle safety remains the highest priority, and i guarantee both Brett and Mitch would be extremely strict and safety conscious regarding their competing vehicles and wouldn't hesitate and withdrawing a competitor due to safety reasons with the vehicle. But coupled with an increase in personal safety equipment can only be an improvement.

Cheers,

Pricey.

[Matt]

been to tuff truck, been to winch events, been to rock crawling, been to this, been to that, but raced at KOR and loved it.
pulling a car around with a piece of string is not my thing, driving between orange witches hat is not my thing, but if we were all the same, it would be a boring old world. Didn't your mum ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, you should shut the f**k up. Thanks for your time.

[XTREME MMM]

been to tuff truck, been to winch events, been to rock crawling, been to this, been to that, but raced at KOR and loved it.
pulling a car around with a piece of string is not my thing, driving between orange witches hat is not my thing, but if we were all the same, it would be a boring old world. Didn't your mum ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, you should shut the f**k up. Thanks for your time.

Quite true and well said.

But my Mum (who never swore) used the word "Constructive" and I was also told that everyone has his or her right to an opinion without being shot down.

I used to pull a car around with a piece of string a bloody long time ago, and guess what it is still fun now. You should try it one day and then you will know how much fun it is, I will even give you a free entry to an ARB XWC if your vehicle is upto spec, but you have to supply your own string.

Have a nice Sunday.

[pricey]

Also having spoken to various people about the fire suit introduction, there have been those who do agree with MMM, with the use of poor quality tube used as rollcage material, poor workmanship and poor bracing on cages (this being the main concern) etc. Loose cables, hydraulic lines not fitted correctly, the list continues.I am of the opinion that tube thickness guages should be used with scrutineering of the vehicles, but with some people choosing to run proper seamless rollcage material and others choosing to run gal waterpipe (either with weld in elbows or bent with a bender) it is difficult to determine what has been used once its all painted up. I am not an expert on this so if there is a way to determine this when tube is painted then school me on it

I chose to replace my own rollcage as it did not comply with proper standards and wasn't the correct tube, and also wanted to be as safe as possible while competing.

With the fire suits been added to increase competitor safety and increase the level of professionalism in the sport, there will always be the 2 groups that compete, those who do it because they love racing and have the professional approach, and those who just go for a bit of fun and cant justify spending extra money to do so.

Just another few thoughts. . . . . .

Cheers,
Pricey.

[ToughTracks4wdClub]

I am not an expert on this so if there is a way to determine this when tube is painted then school me on it

We are not experts either but one way they can try and police vehicle construction is ask all competitors to sign a stat dec stating that there vehicle complies with all current KOTR vehicle specs. We do this with our Outlaw class as there isn't anyway you can check this properly so you just need to take there word for it and also pre scrutineering and telling them that if the vehicle is deemed unsafe then they will DNF your vehicle.
Like Tuff Truck you wont lie about it as if you get there and it doesn't comply you won't compete.
Regards
Tough Tracks 4x4 Club

[Rolly]

Also having spoken to various people about the fire suit introduction, there have been those who do agree with MMM, with the use of poor quality tube used as rollcage material, poor workmanship and poor bracing on cages (this being the main concern) etc. Loose cables, hydraulic lines not fitted correctly, the list continues.I am of the opinion that tube thickness guages should be used with scrutineering of the vehicles, but with some people choosing to run proper seamless rollcage material and others choosing to run gal waterpipe (either with weld in elbows or bent with a bender) it is difficult to determine what has been used once its all painted up. I am not an expert on this so if there is a way to determine this when tube is painted then school me on it

I chose to replace my own rollcage as it did not comply with proper standards and wasn't the correct tube, and also wanted to be as safe as possible while competing.

With the fire suits been added to increase competitor safety and increase the level of professionalism in the sport, there will always be the 2 groups that compete, those who do it because they love racing and have the professional approach, and those who just go for a bit of fun and cant justify spending extra money to do so.

Just another few thoughts. . . . . .

Cheers,
Pricey.

agree steve

there is word around the comp scene of a couple of vehicles that do not comply to the build specs eg using thin wall tube for cross bracing etc. these idiots that do this not only endanger themselves and other people but it will kill a competition if something serious happened.

we are looking into trying to find something that will guage the wall thickness etc.

if anyone has any ideas please let us know

brett

[pricey]

Feel free to call me mate, as we're in the process of doing this at TT this year 0414655037

Cheers,
Pricey.

[Rolly]

so far we have found an ultrasonic thickness guage but will it work on painted surfaces??

[brooksy]

As far as I am aware correct "tube" isnt hard to define as it comes in a definate imperial OD.
Seamed tube always has a join deflection so softly rolling hand around can pick seams. (I offered to help TTC with scrutineering but never heard back, I maybe a bit too critical maybe )
Thickness is a much more difficult to determine but certainly possible regardless of paint, but finding a cost effective way is probably the most difficult along with using correctly. I will ask our UT tester if he knows the most efficient way of determining.

On another note, I am a bit confused as to why the hate is being thrown towards Dave. M. I have only seen it as constructive although he was big enough to edit his first post (all be it unnecessary). Too many people on the end of a keyboard take things personal & lose site of the difference between constructive & critical !
To come back in argument & tell someone to "F off" shows a lack of maturity IMO.



brooksy

[XTREME MMM]

Just regards the roll cages.

I agree that all correct tube is imperial, so 1 3/4 or 44.5/45mm 350 grade tube is the way to go, this will require a 2.5 wall thickness. And as stated you can pick if it is seamed or seemless and if joins have been used, not hard.

All other sizes become pipe (cheaper) etc Nominal Bore pipe does not comply for roll cages requirements. So for a start anything over 45mm will not comply with accepted roll bar & transport rules. So just because it is bigger & thicker does not make it better.

I get competitors to sign a stat dec to say that the roll cage and seat belts comply to said rules, responsibility is now on them.

And on the first or second page of the XWC rules it states that it is the competitors responsibility to comply with said rules.

I also only do safety checks on vehicles, not full scruitineering as such. By doing this it takes a lot of the organiser of the event.

Hope that is of some help.

Have a nice day

[toughnut]

With the roll cages there is a way that they can be logged and scrutineered properly. This needs to be done before painting though and then logged in a log book by someone that is qualified to inspect these things. Then it doesn't matter if they are painted after that. You'll still be able to see cracks and you'll be able to see if there have been changes made. Its a bit of a pain in the ass for the competitor but its really the only way you can do this properly.

[cut 4B]

was there any cars at last years king of the rim ot tuff that got turned away because they didnt meet safety rules . i no you cant mesure cage thickness yet

[Rolly]

all the vehicles that competed in kotr 2011 were up to the current build specs and safety requirments . we do not have anything to do with cams or dot in our construction of our vehicles and cages . we run a modified version of the ccda rules like tuff truck.
as i said in a previous post there are a couple of vehicles we want to have a closer look at if they decide to run again hence wanting a thickness guage .
we are more than happy with the vehicle build rules the way they are and dont want to change anything at this stage.
as we said we are introducing race suits and shoes for a good reason (your own safety)
if anyone has something constructive to say about how we can improve in the future feel free to comment .


cheers brett

[mickyd555]

Well done to the Thorpes for implementing this rule. I thought about getting a suit for last year event as i wasnt going there to pussy foot around but I didnt really want to go down in flames either. (too bad the old girl didnt feel like it on the day and gave up early )

I didn't cause i didnt want to look like a show pony (worked out well considering we didnt get anywhere ).

All this talk about making sure cages are right really shouldnt even be an issue. Anyone who is turning up to this sort of event with out the correct roll cage is a wanker. The cost of the tube for my cage was under $300 (it was about 4 years ago but steel hasnt gone up that much) so for $3-400 i am confident if i put it over i wont be harmed unnecesarily, I built it myself with help from a friend who has a bender so i was able to get it on the cheap. $12-1500 will get you one drive in drive out if you strip the cab i think, ring around, theres plenty people doing them.

If a competition manager says you must have a fire suit and a roll cage that is built correctly than thats what you should turn up with. Checking for fire suits is easy, if your gonna try and hide behind a dodgy rollcage then your a wanker (as stated above) and your not doing our sport any good. A roll cage is about 1/3 the cost of a set of sticky treps on beadlocked rims so anyone that turns up on them should have a proper cage already.

Thanks Brett for your advancement to safety in the sport, I know another event manager who back in the day introduced the requirement for crash helmets and that added extra cost to the event for competitors (we dont need to name him, that wont help the situation). He spruked on here about being the first to implement that rule once if im not mistaken and people still turn up to his events so i dont think your gonna lose any support over this.

AA++ from me for the idea

[Mosko111]

Suggestion:

Do some of the go-cart clubs down Brissy way have the race suits with the hire carts??
Is there a possibility of doing a rental scheme through one so people don't have to outlay that money for something they may use only once? I'm all for fire suits (I'm dyin mine hot pink if I get one!) but someay be discouraged of extra outlay

[Rolly]

they are not expensive a group buy you will prob get them for $150 ea and you got till november .

[Shieldsy]

Suggestion:

Do some of the go-cart clubs down Brissy way have the race suits with the hire carts??
Is there a possibility of doing a rental scheme through one so people don't have to outlay that money for something they may use only once? I'm all for fire suits (I'm dyin mine hot pink if I get one!) but someay be discouraged of extra outlay

Mosko you really are queer

[Modified Toy]

They way i see it comply with the rules (no matter who's event it is or what ever the cost is) or dont enter its that easy.

[Shieldsy]

I will even give you a free entry to an ARB XWC

i am a non believer....does this count for me