1HD-FT into 80 Series

[Moonshine]

Gday everyone, Im just wondering if anyone has done a conversion from petrol 80series to a 1HD-FT engine before? As my mate wants to ditch his petrol and go diesel power. We will be doing the work in the backyard and ive found where i can get the engine but not sure if everything will mount up e.g. Gearbox to engine.

He also wants to power up this engine so i was thinking garrett turbo and intercooler, bigger intakes and turning the fuel screw up as we want the mechanical injection one. Anything else we could do to get it moving quicker?

Cheers,
Josh

[TheBigBoy]

Yeah, just wait. I heard there is a new turbo coming out .

[CRUZAAMAD]

give custom turbos on here a buzz.

done work on said motor, customer is on here too, pretty happy results.

much dearer to go the 1hd fte? way, hear its been done

[Hamo]

Gday everyone, Im just wondering if anyone has done a conversion from petrol 80series to a 1HD-FT engine before? As my mate wants to ditch his petrol and go diesel power. We will be doing the work in the backyard and ive found where i can get the engine but not sure if everything will mount up e.g. Gearbox to engine.

Hi Josh
You'll need to give a few more details before you will get an answer that will be helpful.
Like,What year is it & what motor & gearbox will it be replacing.

My FT has recently had the injector's & pump recoed & although i do run an intercoooler as well, The stock, never been touched ct26 turbo is pumping out 16lb boost, No problems. How ever for engine life id limit that to 14lb boost.

If your replacing a 1fz motor, I belive it will be a straight bolt in job.
How ever you will also need to replace the fuel tanks & lines to the turbo diesel setup as they have bigger fuel line's.

If you replaceing a 3f motor you may have to do some work with the engine mounts & replace the gearbox aswell.

Hamo

[TheBigBoy]

My FT has recently had the injector's & pump recoed & although i do run an intercoooler as well, The stock, never been touched ct26 turbo is pumping out 16lb boost, No problems. How ever for engine life id limit that to 14lb boost.

Hamo

Thanks for being honest. 16lbs - 17lbs on a stock CT26 is a no no. It can produce 20lbs of you keep in under 2000rpm until thrush washer wears out and bye bye turbo.

[Moonshine]

The engine its replacing is the 4.5L toyota petrol engine (6cyl i believe) which is mounted to a 5spd manual gearbox. Its a 1997 model off the top of my head. We will be doing most of the work ourselves. Both the fuel tanks be replaced with long ranger diesel tanks and hoses replaced with 3/8" fuel lines (i believe this will be correct size).

Reason i recommended the 1HD-FT is due to the simplicity of no electronics or ECU's to work with. Im interested in this "NEW TURBO" mentioned above but will it simply bolt onto a standard manifold or will a custom manifold be required? Also being the basic toyota engine if he run into trouble he can virtually get parts off anyone in the NT for it

[Hamo]

The engine its replacing is the 4.5L toyota petrol engine (6cyl i believe) which is mounted to a 5spd manual gearbox. Its a 1997 model off the top of my head. We will be doing most of the work ourselves. Both the fuel tanks be replaced with long ranger diesel tanks and hoses replaced with 3/8" fuel lines (i believe this will be correct size).

It will bolt straight in then, You may have to change the pressure plate.
Im not a fan of those turbos, I prefer the standard spec turbo.

Hamo

[TheBigBoy]

The engine its replacing is the 4.5L toyota petrol engine (6cyl i believe) which is mounted to a 5spd manual gearbox. Its a 1997 model off the top of my head. We will be doing most of the work ourselves. Both the fuel tanks be replaced with long ranger diesel tanks and hoses replaced with 3/8" fuel lines (i believe this will be correct size).

It will bolt straight in then, You may have to change the pressure plate.
Im not a fan of those turbos, I prefer the standard spec turbo.

Hamo

It's never been a case of a stock turbo vs graeme's or aftermarket turbo's. It's a case of bad info being interjected across the net. The engine can handle high boost. It's the stock turbo that cannot. 14psi, inter cooler, exhaust, Pump mods, air box and if you want more. Ported head, ballanced and if it's a T intake manifold mods. Most people will be very very happy with that.

Graeme's turbo's speak for themselves and simply improve efficency, capable of maintaining high boost safely and holding through out rev range. Designed and matched for that engine. No one said everyone has to be a fan. But to not like it, just means you don't understand it. It's better in every single way.

[Hamo]

It's never been a case of a stock turbo vs graeme's or aftermarket turbo's.

Mate, Its my motor & if i dont like them, I wont put 1 on it. As far as i know, You dont own a 1hd-ft or a graham Turbo.

Hamo

[hulsty]

It's never been a case of a stock turbo vs graeme's or aftermarket turbo's.

Mate, Its my motor & if i dont like them, I wont put 1 on it. As far as i know, You dont own a 1hd-ft or a graham Turbo.

Hamo

Care to expand on why you dont like them ? IMO I see nothing but positives on them and the one I have has been running great but keen to hear others reasoning etc.

[80's_delirious]

Moonshine,
the 1HD-T series engines all had 12mm fuel line from tank to injection pump, apart from the very first model run, the lines were upsized to help with a fuel surge problem.

[TheBigBoy]

So to clear it up. It's not that you don't like graemes turbo's. You just don't like any aftermarket turbo?

[80's_delirious]

It's never been a case of a stock turbo vs graeme's or aftermarket turbo's.

Mate, Its my motor & if i dont like them, I wont put 1 on it. As far as i know, You dont own a 1hd-ft or a graham Turbo.

Hamo

Care to expand on why you dont like them ? IMO I see nothing but positives on them and the one I have has been running great but keen to hear others reasoning etc.

I'd be interested to know too.
From what Hamo has posted elsewhere, graeme declined to supply a turbo to Hamo after Hamo said he intended to strip it.
From my point of view, it was early days for graeme's mods, and I would speculate he would be hoping to protect his intelectual property as long as possible.

I have yet to read a negative review from anyone who has installed one, they are getting good raps all over from knowledgeable people IMO.
If I had the coin spare, I would buy one in a flash.

[Hamo]

[quote="80's_delirious"]
From what Hamo has posted elsewhere, graeme declined to supply a turbo to Hamo after Hamo said he intended to strip it.
From my point of view, it was early days for graeme's mods, and I would speculate he would be hoping to protect his intelectual property as long as possible.

[quote]
Not to let the truth get in the way of a good argement.
But the truth is, I wanted to get it ceramic coated & he didnt like that..

Oh yea, i like ceramic coating, Ive got my dump pipe ceramic coated as well as my heat shields, Ive also got another turbo here that will be rebiult to factory spec & that will be ceramic coated aswell & down the track the exhuast manifolds will also be ceramic coated

Now that ive had my injector pump & injectors recoed, Had a compression test & had the boost set up closer to the factory spec of 14lb.
Im more than happy with the performance of my 1hd-ft towing my 3.5t caravan.



Pics for all to see, No BS here

Hamo

[TheBigBoy]

Pics for all to see, No BS here

Hamo

Why do you always imply that because there arent many pics of Graemes turbo's, something sneak is going on, and that there is alot of bullshit about them?

[MJ80]

Can anyone confirm that his trubos are "toyota" stamped real ct26s or are they china turbos that hes got his bits in ?

[TheBigBoy]

Can anyone confirm that his trubos are "toyota" stamped real ct26s or are they china turbos that hes got his bits in ?

Do you mean is a ebay CT26 with toyota stamped on it chinese? Or are you asking about graeme's turbo's? If so, Why dont you just ask Graeme directly? He is on this forum.

[80's_delirious]

Can anyone confirm that his trubos are "toyota" stamped real ct26s or are they china turbos that hes got his bits in ?

Do you mean is a ebay CT26 with toyota stamped on it chinese? Or are you asking about graeme's turbo's? If so, Why dont you just ask Graeme directly? He is on this forum.

Agreed, you should get the word straight from the horses mouth.

[80's_delirious]

http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24- ... hread.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24- ... mance.html

[De-lux]

Who is he on here and offroad80s / Lcool?

[80's_delirious]

I don't think he is on offroad80s.

Custom turbo on here or dieselex here also

ToughDiesels on lcool (i think)

[Moonshine]

The engine its replacing is the 4.5L toyota petrol engine (6cyl i believe) which is mounted to a 5spd manual gearbox. Its a 1997 model off the top of my head. We will be doing most of the work ourselves. Both the fuel tanks be replaced with long ranger diesel tanks and hoses replaced with 3/8" fuel lines (i believe this will be correct size).

It will bolt straight in then, You may have to change the pressure plate.
Im not a fan of those turbos, I prefer the standard spec turbo.

Hamo

It's never been a case of a stock turbo vs graeme's or aftermarket turbo's. It's a case of bad info being interjected across the net. The engine can handle high boost. It's the stock turbo that cannot. 14psi, inter cooler, exhaust, Pump mods, air box and if you want more. Ported head, ballanced and if it's a T intake manifold mods. Most people will be very very happy with that.

Graeme's turbo's speak for themselves and simply improve efficency, capable of maintaining high boost safely and holding through out rev range. Designed and matched for that engine. No one said everyone has to be a fan. But to not like it, just means you don't understand it. It's better in every single way.

Ok thanks for all that mate, sounds like a simple process from what you've said except maybe the turbo manifold lol is the 14PSI out of stock turbo or aftermarket? if we went aftermarket id go T04Z as they seem to work great on performance petrol engines.

[Hamo]

For those that dought the boost set on my factory CT26.
It was set at 16lb boost by a company that has 9 workshops in Australia.

I had the injector pump & injectors recod at the time & they performed a compression test on the motor before they decided on what to set the boost at.
My motor has 500psi compression on all cylinders. (not to shabby with 370000ks on the clock)

This company was recomended to me by my local Toyota dealer as its the same company that Toyota use's for injector pump & injector servicing.

I run a provent oil seperator on my motor & i noticed an increase in the amount off oil the provent was catching & as i dont have the provent plummed back to the sump, I wasnt happy with having to drain the provent between servicing, So to reduce the increased blowby, I backed the boost off to 14lb.

As i said above, this company has 9 workshops around Australia (& some will take this the wrong way, but) this is not a backyard setup.
I have a 12 month warrenty with all work carried out with unlimated kms & all work was carried out ussing a 4wd dyno.

Heres a Quote from there web site.

MTQ Engine Systems is the largest Turbocharger and Diesel Fuel Injection Company in the Southern Hemisphere. With nine branches Nationally.

http://www.mtqes.com.au/about.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Im sure they know what thier doing & come recomended by Toyota.

Hamo

[80's_delirious]

Toyota factory set limit is 14psi. It's widely considered that 15psi is a safe limit for the standard turbo if you want reliability and longevity.

I ran mine at 18psi for a long time and up to 22psi for a while, it eventually shat itself.
After approx 16psi, the note of the turbo whistle changed noticeably.

I replaced mine with a hybrid using Supra parts to create a high flow turbo. The difference was obvious, at the same psi, with the hi flow turbo it ran much bettet, was much quieter. It was not working anywhere near as hard to pump more air.
Thats the whole point of using Gturbo, the psi is somewhat irrelevant, the fact that it pumps a greater volume of air at the same psi is more important.

You can have a standard CT26 highly strung and ready to POP, or have one that is a CT26 by use of CT26 housings, but for all intents, is not stock at all.

Each to there own, no question people get decent results using off the shelf Garretts and other stuff that were mostly designed for petrol applications. Greame seems to have come up with an alternative that is getting better results, and is a bolt in replacement.

[58bernie]

Can anyone confirm that his trubos are "toyota" stamped real ct26s or are they china turbos that hes got his bits in ?

He works on exchange, he sends you one and you send yours back, I did mine the other way around and sent him mine first.
PM me if you would like to have a drive of mine one day

[58bernie]

I cut this from offroad80's and it's Graeme's reply to questions raided about his turbos, I'm sure he won't mind me doing that. I have one of his grunter2 turbo's and am wrapped in it.

[quote]
Other than the exhaust housing on some FT’s and a minor (1-1.5psi) increase in boost pressure between the 1HDT and the 1HDFT turbos, there isn’t another single difference. Some in Oz had 58020 (possible it was a replacement), some had 17010. All the European orders that I have done have 17010 housings on them. Their isn’t much difference between the two in any case.

Neither of the two differences referenced are a justification for a claim that one can handle more pressure reliably than the other.

What governs the turbos capability with boost is predominantly its airflow capability on compressor side, compressor design (max operating rpm) and the thrust bearing design. Obviously the turbine end needs to flow too, but it is less important when looking purely at boost capability.

I don’t need to look at a compressor map to determine the safe operating area of the turbo. In fact, I don’t use compressor maps for any of my designs. That’s not to say I don’t know what they can flow; its that I know how to calculate what they can flow, what their peak efficiency will be and what the max power I can expect at what rpm in what engine (IDI, low pressure DI or high pressure DI) based on comp wheel parameters.

Even for those that look at compressor maps to work out sizing etc, do they account for max operating level wrt sea level, max ambient air temp, max air temp into inlet manifold? I am sure some do, but you will always find some who are offering advise to others that don’t and its because they haven’t got a clue how to.

Here are some facts on the CT26 as fitted to both T and FT engines:

• They are limited in operating rpm to ~ 110,000 due to comp wheel design. This limits their maximum flow at choke to ~ 80% as if operating it at higher speed
• On an intercooled, big exhaust 1HDT and FT at around 14psi, this rpm limit is reached at ~ 2500 engine rpm (2400rpm on the FT). Of all the engines, the FT is the turboss are least safe at higher rpm due to the higher flow of the heads – some 15% improvement at 3500rpm.
• The turbo will boost higher than 14psi however the comp wheel will fatigue and eventually break in half. It is difficult to say when this will happen but it certainly does happen and I am happy to provide some photos. This will cause engine oil to feed into your engine which will cause it to run at very high engine speed (somewhere over 6k) until the engine is left without oil. Almost every time I have seen this it is followed with a comprehensive engine build.
• The thrust bearing on a CT26 will allow 20psi, but the life is reduced and this kills the front rear seal on the turbo, leading to smelly exhaust and engine getting contaminated with ash and other particulates that don’t burn when the oil gets into the cylinder. Replacing the thrust bearing with a 360 degrees version like available on eBay will help greatly, but your left with a low operating speed comp wheel ;-) so what is the point?
• The turbo on the Yanmar and Yamaha marinised T and FT engines IS NOT a CT26. It is a far larger frame turbo with a water cooled exhaust housing (pretty std on a marined disel) that doesn’t reach the operating pressure of 29-31psi until over 2500rpm. The thought that it was suggested that it is a CT26 is quite funny. The T and FT and have different pistons and injector nozzels to these engines, though that is another matter.

Bottom line is this. You can use your factory CT26 with an intercooler and other breathing mods (inlet manifold on a T, airbox, exhaust etc) at up to 14psi with limited rpm over 2500 safely and get a huge improvement in power. But keep within the limits for reliability. They are a nice turbo but they are not magical, they have limits.

All my turbos will run lower EGT’s than factory. As an example, when I tow a 4T caravan I’m at 27-30:1 AFR at ~ 100km/h 1900rpm on flat. Factory turbo will be at that driving by itself. When not towing I’m at 40:1 at 100km/h. All this means is that with a Gturbo the engine will be much cleaner and have lower EGT’s at all times. When towing I aim for not less than 22:1. I can be pegged at 26psi up hills towing my 4T van and my EGT’s are really terrific. For fun AFR of 18:1 is the lowest I am happy to see.

I recently posted some dyno results on IH8mud of stock CT, direct swap to mine and another of DTS kit and GT2860RS vs mine. You should check out the difference in AFR’s. Most tuners tune their 1HZ’s to 17:1 while mine from same tuner in Qld was at 20:1 and boost response was far superior.

As for photos of my turbos, to be honest, I have posted some turbos on some sites. I work a fulltime engineering job in town and do turbos as well. Plus I have a young family so I don’t have a lot of time to write on forums and argue with people or even pedal my wares much. But, if that’s a problem then I can post some photos. Also, when its 2am and I’m off to bed, I don’t always think of taking photos. I haven’t even got the website up yet but its happening slowly and obviously there needs to be photos on their right?

There is a new range out now with extended tip technology. Parts have arrived and I’m busy making them for people. I also change the turbines as well to my own design, the factory turbine is quite antiquated. Also, I have been redesigning the 1KD-FTV variable vane turbo that will push the 1KD past 200kW at crank in one guise and a 170kW at crank version with factory AFR’s for the average punter.

I guess what I am saying is, not much time for photos.[quote]

The entire tread over there is here

http://www.offroad80s.com/turbos-t9385.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is some fuel pump mod to do and he sends them to you and is very easy to talk to even in my layman's terms and some of my "dumb" questions where explained exactly what I needed do and how to do it.

I don't normally go into bat for a product but there is an exception because it IS a good one.
Graeme's gunna have to put me on the payroll soon.

[MJ80]

Can anyone confirm that his trubos are "toyota" stamped real ct26s or are they china turbos that hes got his bits in ?

He works on exchange, he sends you one and you send yours back, I did mine the other way around and sent him mine first.
PM me if you would like to have a drive of mine one day

Thanks for the clarification and the offer, might take you up on it when im closer to doing my engine work.

[CustomTurbos]

@ Hamo. I dont mind if you don't "like my turbos" as you have said. But... that is quite a statement considering you havent driven one, touched one, seen one in the metal or know what is different about them. I think when it all comes down to it, you want to get other people to agree with your decision to stay std to make you feel better, plus it might be reasonable to think that your miffed that I dont tell you exactly what I have done and why.

As for ceramic coating, you like the bling. I like the bling too, but as for performance.... its a small improvement, maybe you could measure it... but the cost to benefit ratio means that I always side with optimising the turbo design first, bling second. I recently had a turbo CHRA and exhaust housing coated for a customer in the USA, it looked terrific. I dont think he will get any benefit. But I dont mind, its what he wanted. Im not going to argue with him about it, its his choice, and it looks great.

I see you tow a 3.5T caravan. Well, take a look at http://www.offroadcaravanhire.com.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which is one of my websites. You will see we have alot in common, though I know my van often goes above 3.5T unforunately. Ive done alot of towing and towing that big van is exactly how I gauge performance and what the needs of caravaners are. I know exactly how your FT will be performing now and exactly how it would perform differently with various mods. If you so desperately want to avoid a Gturbo, put a 58020 housing with a Supra comp wheel. It will be a huge improvment. But.... read the thread on IH8Mud on the fellow who swapped exactly that spec for a Gturbo (one of the first 5 I ever did), he goes into detail. He is in Canada and Ive never met him. I suggested he did the Supra comp swap years ago. He couldnt be happier since the change from that to a Gturbo is how I read it.

You need photobucket for this website (I believe), I dont have time for it. If you want photos you can look on IH8Mud. They are there somewhere

[CustomTurbos]

I don't think he is on offroad80s.

Custom turbo on here or dieselex here also

ToughDiesels on lcool (i think)

IH8Mud - gbentink (my first ever forum and a long time ago, so its basically my name, Graeme Bentink)

Here - CustomTurbos (was Dieslex - after converting my LX470 to a Diesel 1HD-FTE, which I still own and use as a test mule, but after doing more turbos, I asked the moderator if they could change it and they did)

Offroad80s - Gturbo (Tough Diesels is not me, though some have suggested, it is in fact Matt Craig, Director of Performance division at United Fuel Injection and specialist in TD42's. I've done turbo development with/for him. He likes my turbos so has posted some stuff on Offroad80's I believe. I didnt post for ages because I forgot my password and taking 5 minutes to recover it seemed too long....). I took the time a few days ago when it was flagged to me privately that there was some incorrect info being bandied around.

If I was able, I would change them all to Gturbo and leave it at that.

[CustomTurbos]

Josh, The Garrett line up are very well suited for petrols, but not so much diesels.

Two significant reasons are the large disparity in exhaust temperatures and the lower rpm of opeartion. The former is perhaps the biggest factor.

If you have clear goals then there is a clear answer. The factory 1HDT/FT/FTE engines are all structurally suitable for > 700nm and plenty of boost (30psi as an example). Thats not to say its needed, but that is a possibility.

Diesels love intercoolers, so factor in one of those.

Dont look past the 1HDT, they can be made to go very well, similar to a modifid FT. Are also also cheaper to buy.

Cheers, Graeme

Gday everyone, Im just wondering if anyone has done a conversion from petrol 80series to a 1HD-FT engine before? As my mate wants to ditch his petrol and go diesel power. We will be doing the work in the backyard and ive found where i can get the engine but not sure if everything will mount up e.g. Gearbox to engine.

He also wants to power up this engine so i was thinking garrett turbo and intercooler, bigger intakes and turning the fuel screw up as we want the mechanical injection one. Anything else we could do to get it moving quicker?

Cheers,
Josh