Willowglen Challenge 2013

[brad 93hilux]

Is there any info out by TLCC about new rules for this event?
Was told rules to be announced Jan-Feb when I emailed them in Dec last year.

Cheers brad

[thunder]

Does anyone know what mm thickness do we have to do our new recovery points for 2013 willowglen. Its either 10mm or 12mm
I dont remember what is required.(hooks are not allowed anymore)

[evanstaniland]

Outlaw class yet?

[YEA 13B]

Does anyone know what mm thickness do we have to do our new recovery points for 2013 willowglen. Its either 10mm or 12mm
I dont remember what is required.(hooks are not allowed anymore)

10mm by 75mm plate

[tuff_89zook]

Outlaw class yet?

X2 ??

[Ice]

x bogetty.. just do it guys

[YEA 13B]

Outlaw class yet?

X2 ??

Outlaw class will never happen at willowglen whilst it is run in its current format because they use the third party property insurance as the insurance for the event which can be done because all cars are "registered"

[evanstaniland]

^^ Cos the vehicles that run now are legal :S
A decent accident will change that quickly!
why can't similar insurance to toperi be used?

[YEA 13B]

I totally agree.

[turbo gu]

The reason they don't run an outlaw class is more likely due to the fact it would be a massive effort to build tracks to suit 2 different classes with only a small amount of club members actually helping build all the tracks. This is the reason that willowglen got rid of the standard class a couple of years ago. The same would apply to toperi allowing buggies etc.

When the Patrol club used to run Nissan trials there was only around 5 to 10 people that actually turned up to the working bees to build tracks. I would have no doubt that TLCC would be in the same boat.
Its easy asking for extra classes etc but not many people realise how hard it is to run these events.

[t price]

Guys , most of your opinions are nearly correct re not having other classes. Just like the old nissan trials there are only a few that ever turn up to a working bee. We had a standard class early in the piece but the last one had only 12 standard vehicles entered. It was not worth the cost of making seperate courses and providing trophies and prizes.
The most important reason is that the TLCC's DA only allows registered vehicles.
I know full well about the comments of wait for an accident etc; I spent hours with solicitors to understand the risks. We all know that insurance companies will try every way not to pay. If we thought it was risk free NO comp would ever be run.
The Challenge is not and has never been run under the clubs third property insurance. It is covered by event insurance from the CCDA. I believe Topiri now goes the same way.
Thanks Tony,

[t price]

Outlaw class yet?

X2 ??

Outlaw class will never happen at willowglen whilst it is run in its current format because they use the third party property insurance as the insurance for the event which can be done because all cars are "registered"

Sorry, but you are very wrong. We have third property on all entered vehicles to cover just that. Third Property. Like the innocent guy that should have his parked car or caravan etc driven into.

CCDA have always provided event insurance at a large cost to the TLCC.

[evanstaniland]

The reason they don't run an outlaw class is more likely due to the fact it would be a massive effort to build tracks to suit 2 different classes.

Why build more tracks? Outlaw vehicles would have just as much FUN as the other class.

Tony is there anyway the tlcc can get a new DA approved? Maybe a trial one then assessment after one event?

[DUDELUX]

So the ONLY rule change for this year is the no hook rule?? Now 10x75 plate recovery points??
Is 1 on the front, and 1 on the back ok?? Or do I need to make 2 on the front, and 2 on the back??

Any other things I need to know so I can try to be ready??

[brad 93hilux]

So the ONLY rule change for this year is the no hook rule?? Now 10x75 plate recovery points??
Is 1 on the front, and 1 on the back ok?? Or do I need to make 2 on the front, and 2 on the back??

Any other things I need to know so I can try to be ready??

The only thing about that I know is one on each corner ie- 2 front 2 rear, painted red

[screwwoole]

What is happening about roll cages? Do we have to have them seeing as it's a road registered class event?
If so what is the standards for the cage if one needs to be fitted?

[tuff_89zook]

The reason they don't run an outlaw class is more likely due to the fact it would be a massive effort to build tracks to suit 2 different classes.

Why build more tracks? Outlaw vehicles would have just as much FUN as the other class.

Tony is there anyway the tlcc can get a new DA approved? Maybe a trial one then assessment after one event?

From some of pics I've seen of willowglen I'd like to give it a crack

[MogLux]

The reason they don't run an outlaw class is more likely due to the fact it would be a massive effort to build tracks to suit 2 different classes.

Why build more tracks? Outlaw vehicles would have just as much FUN as the other class.

Tony is there anyway the tlcc can get a new DA approved? Maybe a trial one then assessment after one event?

From some of pics I've seen of willowglen I'd like to give it a crack

Come on Nick your disco is a stocker.. you would be able to be in the same class as Dudelux

[tuff_89zook]

Cheering now convince them that it is haha

[t price]

So the ONLY rule change for this year is the no hook rule?? Now 10x75 plate recovery points??
Is 1 on the front, and 1 on the back ok?? Or do I need to make 2 on the front, and 2 on the back??

Any other things I need to know so I can try to be ready??

Guys, I have just contacted Pete from the TLCC and he has confirmed that they require 4 recovery points. They are to be made from 10mm x 75mm bar or plate. They are to be fixed by 2 12mm HT bolts or 3 10 mm HT bolts. Then can be fully welded.

They should be inline with or as close as possible to the chassis.

Have a look at the Tuff Truck website under rules and regs and all the info can be found there. Pete agreed that it was sensible for the comps to have the same rules for recovery.


Dudelux---will you ever be ready

[DUDELUX]

Dudelux---will you ever be ready

Umm, hope so, but doubt it. I got no idea what Im doing. And I cant afford to pay someone to build it for me.

Ill be there either way, promise.

[brad 93hilux]

Got a email back from TLCC

The rules for 2013 Willowglen Challenge will be the same as last year with the exception of the addition of two recovery points on the front and back of the vehicle (a total of 4 points). The plate needs to be 75mm x 12mm thick and support a hole which allows a 4.7 shackle to be inserted. This allows us to use excavators for recoveries. The plate needs to be mounted as close to the chassis rail as possible.

Regards

Peter

So that's great news, now I know where I stand..

Brad

[thunder]

Got a email back from TLCC

The rules for 2013 Willowglen Challenge will be the same as last year with the exception of the addition of two recovery points on the front and back of the vehicle (a total of 4 points). The plate needs to be 75mm x 12mm thick and support a hole which allows a 4.7 shackle to be inserted. This allows us to use excavators for recoveries. The plate needs to be mounted as close to the chassis rail as possible.

Regards

Peter

So that's great news, now I know where I stand..

Brad

Couldnt find that info on the tlcc site. It does seem that the shackle has to go thru the hole,Not just the pin.

[brad 93hilux]

Don't think this would be so as that's how a shackle normally gets attached in any other rigging application..
Normally pin goes through attachment point and the bow of the shackle is for the sling/ chain.

Would have to be a big hole.

[turbo gu]

My front bar has a hole each side for a shackle pin to go thru and I was told last year that would be fine for next year.

[thunder]

my rear ones are done. Shackle goes thru. when lifting with both rear from excavator/forklift etc there will be no added pressure on anything (shackle,pin, or plate) If the hole is only able to take the pin then thats what will let go. See if i can add a picture?

[thunder]

[brad 93hilux]

The pin would NEVER let go.

The Saftey factor plus 4.7 ton shackle.. There is no need to have shackle pass through because it is 'stronger' because it is already rediculously over rated.

I'm a rigger and that's not how you normally attach a shackle.

What I'm trying to get at is there is no advantage to be able to put whole shackle through, but the rules wernt defined that far.

Brad

[brad 93hilux]

In my case it would be the two 12.9 grade M12 high tensile bolts holding it on. But I have built to spec.


Brad

[GU_247]

Brad

The way your shackle is in the recovery point allows the pin to bind. Irrespective of whether the rating of the shackle is well above the requirement you shouldn't allow this to happen. I do agree that the majority of people have their recovery points set up this way but we are now talking about a vertical lift. In the case of lifting with 1 recovery point I dont see there would be too much issue, However I would assume that the recoveries will make use of both recovery points on the front or rear of the vehicle causing the chain to triangulate (as per thunders image).
This causes the pin to bind or worse spread the legs of the shackle. The load should be on the pin, not on the legs where the pin passes through. To correctly do a vertical lift with the pin in the recovery point, the axis of the pin needs to run in the direction front to back along the vehicle. but this obviously wouldnt allow a horizontal recovery.

The design of the bow shackle allows the bow end (not the pin end) to to take a load in multiple directions.
I dont proclaim to be a rigger but I design heavy machinery in excess of 10T where lifting points need to be considered.
Whether youre lifting 50kg or 20T the same principles should be applied.


Paul