Applause engine straight drop into a roza??

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:43 am

hey guys... i need some help here as i'm feeling uneasy about this. managed to scrap some money together to order an engine for my roza! talked with a fella over at harbor used auto parts over in long beach Cal. last nite and he said he did have the engines in stock. then i called him today to place an order and he tells me they are from an applause but will drop straight into the roza engine bay and mate up with the tranny. no mods required. also said engine will line up with engine mounts and that i will have no problem. also said the head/block is exactly the same as the one used in the roza's. i thought the applause engine had different specs? aint they also weaker than the roza engine's??? i mean weaker as in torque, hp, and mechaically? i'm honestly confused. the guy told me the only thing i had to do was fit on my new extractors (which he says will fit), and fit my exsisting intake. what gives? can anyone confirm this for me? and give me some heads up? i've already placed the order and made sure that if i didnt like the engine, i could ship it back free and get a refund... so if i can find out if the engine will work or not without too much hassle, i need to know so i can cancel the order since it will arrive here on monday. thanks for help in advance.

Post by **r0ck_m0nkey** » Sat May 01, 2004 9:06 am

Well after blowing the engine up in the Feroza i had it was replaced with an Applause unit. Never noticed the difference in any way in the way in which it performed.

As for how easy a swap it is, i can only assume relatively easy because when i had it done, the place i was getting my engine from, picked it up from my door, and had it delivered back in 3 days for $2500. So couldn't have been to much stuffing around involved.

AJ just did it i believe so i am sure he will shed some light on the matter.

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Sat May 01, 2004 9:16 am

It'll do the job.

You DO have to make sure that the engine you get is the right one, as there are 2 slightly different bolt patterns for where the gearbox bolts up....easiest way would be to take a digital pic of yours, send it to the engine supplier and get them to check it.

...I'll give ya more details later today when I have more time

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sat May 01, 2004 10:45 am

PV the Feroza and Applause have different cams, which means the power curve will be slightly different. The springs inside the distributor that control the advance curve are also different. The inlet manifolds are different , but that will just be a matter of swapping them over.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sat May 01, 2004 10:49 am

hmmm.. interesting... sadly i cant tear my block out until i get the replacement unit. since i dont have a hoist so i will rent one when the unit gets here. but if it doesnt match up i'm sure i can send it back free of charge and get the correct one... thanks for confirming this for me fellas.. so excited! roza'll be running soon!!!!

david.... will there be any power difference? and since i'm using MY intake off of the old engine, should i use my distrub. as well? since the cams are different, will this reduce the soundness of the engine (will it take the abuse like the roza engine did before?)....... anything else?

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sat May 01, 2004 11:02 am

Try running it with the supplied distributor first. You'll have to change the inlet manifold as the set up on the Applause has different piping outlets/ inlets IIRC.

Here are some pics of an Aussie Applause engine.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sat May 01, 2004 11:07 am

so other than the intake/exhaust.. these engines are a straight swap? thats my concern... and will i notice any changes in power and soundness and ability to take abuse? thats my concern.

Post by ***BESTY*** » Sat May 01, 2004 1:14 pm

No it's not just a straight swap....you've got and East-West engine replacing a North-South set-up.

You will need to change your engine mounting brakets over, ??Oil pick-up and sump ?? Oil Dipstick mount Air Conditioning mounting brackets....(from memory of doing this conversion twice to mine)
and to be safe, you should also change your Timing Belt AND Tensioner whilst the cover is off !!

Have fun doing it and make sure you get your mates to give you a hand, maybe to help buy the alcohol :twisted:

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sat May 01, 2004 4:32 pm

do all that stuff just bolt on/off or do i have to do welding? i dont got any welding tools so if i have welding to do, i'm screwed.... oil pickup? oil stump? you mean in the oil pan? one problem though, my ac compressor is charged... so if i disconnect a line, i'll let the gases out and thats illegal here. is there any way i can disconnect the compressor off of the old engine, drop in the new one, and hook the compressor onto the new one? or do i have to take it all out in order to drop in the engine? and how hard is it to mate the engine/tranny together? do i line the engine up, mate it with the tranny? THEN put it on the mounts and bolt it down? give me ideas pls cuz i have no clue what i'm doing.... so i'm gonna learn it looks like. lol. never done a full engine swap so help would be appericated!

Post by **Croz** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:09 pm

Hey PV

I havent done a swap on my Feroza, I didnt have time so I paid someone to do it...

I have done swaps on other engines before so I might be able to shed some light.

The sump (oilpan) and pickup are bolt on bits, but you might need new gaskets, the engine mounts as far as i can remember are bolt on, there are castings for them in the block to suit both bolt patterns so just match your old engine. You might get away with using your old mounts but dont if they are in poor condition or cracked. Don't know anything about the dipstick movements, sorry.

To remove the A/C you just turn off the gas in the pipe... just where you do it is the mystery to me... look at the online manual Murcod has put up and the info you need will be there for removal and replacement of the engine and A/C.

Just use anything you need off your old engine, except the block... der! But make sure you use new gaskets and preferably a torque wrench if you can get hold of one to get the settings right. Attach all the fittings such as inlet and exhaust while the motor is out of the car.

I have had dramas lining up tranny to engine in the past, but its not too bad provided you clean the spigot (gear shaft) and the bearing so they mate easy. Drop the new motor into the bay on the hoist and rest it on the mounts with everything sort of dummied up to fit, then, leaving the engine on the hiost just a bit manipulate the gearbox up to fit. You might need to get a mate to turn the crank a bit by hand to line up the gearbox shaft and the clutch plate.

Once the box mates to the engine, check the dowels are liined up and push it home on the hoist, then if all is well drop it fully onto the engine mounts and do up the bolts between the bellhousing and the block. DONT PUSH IT IF IT DOESNT FIT! Just play with it and it should all slide into place.

Once all the bolts are done, push the clutch a few times and check it works, better to find out now. Then remove the hoist and attach everything!

I went ot a bit of detail there but hope it helps, I remember the first motor I swapped I did by myself and it took me forever... and wouldnt fit no matter what, discovered a bit of the spigot bearing had welded itself onto the crank and thus I couldnt get the shaft in... whoops!! :oops:

Good Luck with it!

P.S. You could probably putt the bits off your old motor even before the new one arrives to save time on the day... just dont lose nothing!

Post by **Croz** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:10 pm

Holy shit i wrote a lot!

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:27 pm

thanks croz for giving me some insight.... appericate it! i'll keep everyone posted. i wont get the engine until tuesday, so i will let everyone know then. and how everything's going.

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Sun May 02, 2004 12:29 am

PV, I just recently did a swap with an Applause motor. I left the Applause inlet manifold and distributor on, and she runs great.....better than the original motor on the highwy and not a hugely noticeable difference offroad...the extra grunt seems to make up for that anyway. There are a couple of minor differences which are just a matter of swapping parts.

Sump: Take off the old one and remove the oil pickup. Then do the same on the new one. Clean off all the old gasket on the new block and the old sump. Bolt the oil pickup onto the new block and fit the old sump. You can use good quality silicon sealant in place of a sump gasket...that'll work fine.

If you have trouble getting the sumps off, coz they tend to be pretty well stuck on, gently hammer a paint scraper into the gasket crap to break the seal....you'll have to do that all the way around. REMEMBER, go gently so you don't damage anything inside!!! And DON'T use a screwdriver or chisel for this job!!!

Oil cooler: You may have a small oil cooler on the original motor where the oil filter screws on...it's basically a small water jacket arrangement. You can tell if that is on your old motor now by checking if there is a hose coming from the bottom tank of the radiator to where the oil filter sits...let me know if you have it and I'll tell you how to get it off...it can be a little tricky.

Airconditioner: Just unbolt the compressor brackets and tie it all up on the guard out of the way ...You DON'T HAVE TO DISCONNECT IT!!! You'll prolly find some of the pulleys are different, so it's easier just to unbolt the old brackets from the old block and bolt them straight onto the new one...should be nice and simple.

Coolant temp sensors: These can vary a little, so gimme a shout when you get to them.

Engine mounts: Simply unbolt them from the block and bolt the old ones onto the new block...nice and simple.

Distributor: You may want to swap the dizzy, but it's just as easy to use the one that comes with the new motor...less farking around.

Alternator and power steering pump: Leave the new ones where they are...they should all line up with your belts fine. Power steering hoses should screw straight on, then just refill the reservoir.

Flywheel and clutch: It's easier to get them off and on with the help of a mate holding a socket on the pulley at the front of the motor. It's easy to line the clutch up by eye with the motor out...you really don't need any bullshite clutch alignment tool.

The metal plates around the bellhousing need to be swapped also...thy're pretty obvious though.

Have fun...it's a little time consuming swapping in the Applause motor, but it is pretty straightforward.

Just one last point: WHEN YOU BOLT ANYTHING UP, MAKE SURE IT'S TIGHTENED UP THERE AND THEN SO YOU DON'T MISS IT LATER AND HAVE SOMETHING FALL OFF LATER ON...

Cheers,

Post by **Skyzic** » Sun May 02, 2004 4:17 am

Pv I dont know what kind of engine deal your getting but if it is like some of the parts moters I have seen then all they did was yank it out of the doner vehicle and ship it to you. You may want to check the timeing belt & pulleys along with all the gaskets. Its alot easier to do all this with the engine out then once you install it. This is also the best time to upgrade the camshaft & set the clearance on lifters and such. Just check everything to make sure there is no worne parts & everything is in spec.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Fri May 07, 2004 6:59 am

aj, yes i do have the oil cooler.. can you pls give me some insight into how to remove that and swap it onto the new block? i am going to tackle the engine this weekend so i am slowly attempting to get things switched over.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:36 am

forgot to add, i'm going to have to change the intake anyways it seems. since the one thats on the applause motor has no vaccuum system, but mine does.... or should i bother?

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:44 pm

Hey PV,

OK, it'll prolly be easier in the long run to change the inlet....by the time I did mine, I was onto my 3rd engine swap in under a month (different vehicles), so was lookin' for any shortcut I could find

Anyway, the oil filter "bolt" is easy to get off the Applause motor with a DEEP 22mm socket. You will prolly have difficulty getting the aircon bracket off the original motor if you try doing it b4 you take off the oil cooler, so WAIT until you get the cooler off b4 you tackle that!!! Otherwise you'll prolly stuff the last nut on the bracket and will have to hit it with angle grinder to get it off....one of my apprentoids got a bit overly eager and ended up creating a whole lot of extra work :cry:

The easiest way to get the oil filter "screw/bolt" off the Applause motor is to get 2 nuts that'll screw onto it. Simply screw the first one on and then tighten the other up next to it so you have a locknut arrangement. it's just a matter then of screwing the whole lot off with an appropriately sized socket or spanner. NOTE NOTE NOTE. Don't even THINK about doing it any other way, coz it just WON'T come off. EDIT: OH, and you'll prolly need to hit the spanner with a 4lb hammer...they come in REAL handy. And remember the old saying: "Don't hit it harder, hit it with a bigger hammer" ...works every time :cool:

The easiest way to find the right sized nuts for the job (and they are BIG NUTS!!!) is to take an oil filter to a bolt shop and get them to supply 2 nuts of the correct size. It should be pretty obvious once you start on it.

You'll find there is a water pipe which runs from the cooler up to the side of the block on the Feroza motor. Have a look on the side of the Applause block and you'll see there is a bolt closing off the hole where it should go to. Simply unscrew it and there is your connection for the water pipe. Just be careful you don't lose any of the washers from the banjo bolt that connects up there....same goes for the banjo bolts on your fuel lines.

BTW, the bolt you take out of the side of the block should be EXACTLY the same size as your sump plug, so keep it as a spare.

OK, any hassles, shout, and I'll answer as soon as I can.

Good Luck, and remember it ISN'T a difficult job, it's just something you need to do in an organised manner.

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sat May 08, 2004 1:26 pm

Just a point on the oil cooler, only later model Ferozas have them fitted. My '92 doesn't have one.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:54 pm

are you sure about that david? mines a 90 and i got one...... and i am for sure going to transfer it over to the new block. tomorrows the big day for me, going to tear out the old block, swap over parts, and attempt to get as afar as getting the new block off of the engine hoist by tomorrow nite. or within 24 hrs.. whichover comes first. since i'll have the hoist for only 24 hrs.... so wish me luck, pray for me, whatever... cuz i'll need it.. since i havent got a clue what i'm doing!

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sat May 08, 2004 3:57 pm

The cooler may depend on what country the Feroza was sold in too- but mine doesn't have one and if you look through the manuals it says some may not have the oil cooler fitted. There were different specs for the engine cooling system too depending on where they were sold; you've got more polution gear in the USA; the distributor has different advance curves in different countries etc etc.

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Sat May 08, 2004 4:01 pm

More likely NARROW TRACKs don't have it...less weight for the same motor to lug around.

Post by **rOd** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:11 pm

Hi guys,

My Feroza was a late 92 DX narrow track (as u know AJ) and it DID have an oil cooler.

So me thinks this is when Dai introduced the oil cooler to the Ferozas.

Rod

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:45 pm

You could be right there Rod. Mine is an April '92 from memory, and everytime I ring up Daihatsu for parts and just say ".....for a '92 Feroza...." they always ask which month. Sometime after mine there was some sort of model update/ change; the oil cooler could be one of the changes.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:44 am

guys.... i screwed up..... :bad-words:

i cant find an intake mainifold gasket and i ruined both ones that i had on both engines. dont ask! does anyone have an extra they could ship to me asap and i'll send u the $$????? i'm getting desperate.. i keep running into bad customer service while trying to locate this item... any help would be of great interest!

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sun May 09, 2004 5:19 am

well guys, i've hunted around all morning, no luck. only thing i could find was a compete gasket kit for over $150..... cant afford it..... could i create my own gasket but using some liquid compound to seal the intake mainifold? or will that not work????

Post by ***BESTY*** » Sun May 09, 2004 1:40 pm

Spend the money and replace ALL the gaskets !
That way you know none of them will f_ck up later !!

Better insurance

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:44 pm

fer.... dont got the $$, tools, or time to replace all the gaskets, nor do i have the knowledge. besides, engine is pretty much in one piece. i'm not gonna strip it down..... i'm already overwhelmed as is now.

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sun May 09, 2004 7:07 pm

Buy some Loctite Master Gasket.

Post by JD » Sun May 09, 2004 8:26 pm

Go to your local auto spares shop and buy the gasket materiall, its like cardboard and is sold by the length.
Trace your manifold onto it and cut it out. Don't forget to cut out the inner holes as well

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:42 pm

JD wrote: Don't forget to cut out the inner holes as well

A mechanic showed me a trick when using that stuff- place the gasket material on the manifold face and gently use a small ball pein (spelling?) hammer and tap the cardboard around the edges of the manifold. It should cut through the cardboard and give you a perfect gasket.

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Applause engine straight drop into a roza??

Applause engine straight drop into a roza??

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