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Ateco Winch Challenge
Moderator: evanstaniland
I am not arguing harnesses, just 6 point cages.
Also unless the vehicle is engineered with the 6 point cage it is not legal to be driven on the road.
If Cams specs are being used, where in their specs do they specify cages for 4WD's. Does this mean that CAMS will be inspecting all cages before all events.
Also unless the vehicle is engineered with the 6 point cage it is not legal to be driven on the road.
If Cams specs are being used, where in their specs do they specify cages for 4WD's. Does this mean that CAMS will be inspecting all cages before all events.
PROCOMP -> What more can I say?
How many of these cages do you think will pass Cams spec anyway I have a copy of Cams Schedule J in front of me and i'm tellin you not many will pass. For everyone to have a compliant cage before the Winch Challenge is crap. And who gets to make these decisions at the last minute. I just had my cage modified for the Outback Challenge because the CCDA thought it was a good idea now they want to change it again apparently our money grows on trees.
Cheers chippa 1st Outback 2004
Cheers chippa 1st Outback 2004
Re: yep
Drafty wrote:Britswed wrote:where coming to get ya
Cheers Mal
And we are ready, so BRING IT ON !!!
As long as theres no water!!
Custom Barwork
Cages built to CCDA specs
Turbo and intercooler systems for diesel and petrol.......PM me.
Centavic Performance 4WD
Cages built to CCDA specs
Turbo and intercooler systems for diesel and petrol.......PM me.
Centavic Performance 4WD
Re: yep
Juzza wrote:Drafty wrote:Britswed wrote:where coming to get ya
Cheers Mal
And we are ready, so BRING IT ON !!!
As long as theres no water!!
So l heard will have to look into that problem.
Joe.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
Hi Guys, regarding the 6 point roll cage, we are currently seeking clarification from the AWWC (Ateco Warn Winch Challenge) committee and will be posting information on the website (www.awwc.org.au), this thread and notifying competitors, once a decision has been reached. We are endeavouring to get a clarification on this asap.
Hey TamsTJ, who's we and what research has been done to justify these snap decisions. Tell me of one incident in these low speed events that we do that would justify this decision. Don't get me wrong i'm not against a 6 point cage I think it is inevitable that it has to go this way but its got to be done properly ie. CAMS specs and the decision has to be made over time and not by some tin pot group (CCDA' great beginning what happened) that all of a sudden has all this authority with no control.
Clearly not happy
Clearly not happy
Shift Lizard wrote:Hey TamsTJ, who's we and what research has been done to justify these snap decisions. Tell me of one incident in these low speed events that we do that would justify this decision. Don't get me wrong i'm not against a 6 point cage I think it is inevitable that it has to go this way but its got to be done properly ie. CAMS specs and the decision has to be made over time and not by some tin pot group (CCDA' great beginning what happened) that all of a sudden has all this authority with no control.
Clearly not happy
Well at round 2 of Xtreme series a nissan lots its front end coming down a steep hill the car went over the long way Iam pretty sure he's happy for a full cage,harnesses & helmet.
Cheers Mal
God of Magnificant Ideas!
I won't have time to get A pillar protection installed before so im asking for my $$$$$ back . Im dissapointed that the CCDA Rules committee agreed on a moratorium detailing that 6 point cages and safety harnesses be mandatory for "A" class event after Jan 1st 2005 and the Ateco Event managment have chosen otherwise.
Wally
Wally
Last edited by 80UTE on Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
80UTE wrote:I won't have time to get A pillar protection installed before so im asking for my $$$$$ back . Im dissapointed that the CCDA Rules committee agreed on a moratorium detailing that 6 point cages and safety harnesses be mandatory for "C" class event after Jan 1st 2005 and the Ateco Event managment have chosen otherwise.
Wally
6 Point cages, harnesses and helmets are only proposed to be mandatory for A Class events.
B Class only require 4 point and helmet
C Class no cage no helmet.
Australian 4WD Specialist
www.aus4wdracing.com.au/forum
www.aus4wdracing.com.au/forum
Aus4wd wrote:80UTE wrote:I won't have time to get A pillar protection installed before so im asking for my $$$$$ back . Im dissapointed that the CCDA Rules committee agreed on a moratorium detailing that 6 point cages and safety harnesses be mandatory for "C" class event after Jan 1st 2005 and the Ateco Event managment have chosen otherwise.
Wally
6 Point cages, harnesses and helmets are only proposed to be mandatory for A Class events.
B Class only require 4 point and helmet
C Class no cage no helmet.
Looks like the Ateco managment have decided on there own back, what and when the "A" class requirements are implemented.
80UTE wrote:I won't have time to get A pillar protection installed before so im asking for my $$$$$ back . Im dissapointed that the CCDA Rules committee agreed on a moratorium detailing that 6 point cages and safety harnesses be mandatory for "A" class event after Jan 1st 2005 and the Ateco Event managment have chosen otherwise.
Wally
If thats the case Wally then I apologise for the comments toward CCDA that sounds like a much better way to impliment such a regulation. As far as the ateco goes i'm with you, I'll watch and enjoy the beer.
After being a Marshall at the last couple of Ateco's I do see the potential for a major roll over. Some of the competitors have enougth hp to really get some speed in a very short distance (even the Deisel 4B's). Also a slow mutible-roll down a side slope could happen.
As for 6pt cages and utes, the ones I have seen, have the tube going thru the rear wall of the cab (this includes some of the cutdown shorty's).
As for 6pt cages and utes, the ones I have seen, have the tube going thru the rear wall of the cab (this includes some of the cutdown shorty's).
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY....
recieved this last night
To All Competitors:
Due to the complexity of safety issues with regards to 4 point
harness's and roll cages a decision has been agreed upon by the Ateco
Warn Winch Challenge Event Committee in consultation with the CCDA
Safety Committee for this upcoming event.
The supplementary regulations will state that a 6 point roll cage
including A pillar protection and 4 point harness's will be
compulsory for the 2004 event.
This decision is based on information gathered from other
organisations such as CAMS suggesting that our existing safety
standards are not aduequate when considering our history of regular
vehicle roll overs occuring in our type of events.
It has been made clear by information gathered that the safest option
for this event to proceed is to have these safety standards as a
minimum requirement for this year.
We understand the short time frame involved, however, our first aim
is your safety, therefore, we would appreciate your support to ensure
these standards are met.
Best Regards,
ateco Warn challenge committee.
28th June 2004
To All Competitors:
Due to the complexity of safety issues with regards to 4 point
harness's and roll cages a decision has been agreed upon by the Ateco
Warn Winch Challenge Event Committee in consultation with the CCDA
Safety Committee for this upcoming event.
The supplementary regulations will state that a 6 point roll cage
including A pillar protection and 4 point harness's will be
compulsory for the 2004 event.
This decision is based on information gathered from other
organisations such as CAMS suggesting that our existing safety
standards are not aduequate when considering our history of regular
vehicle roll overs occuring in our type of events.
It has been made clear by information gathered that the safest option
for this event to proceed is to have these safety standards as a
minimum requirement for this year.
We understand the short time frame involved, however, our first aim
is your safety, therefore, we would appreciate your support to ensure
these standards are met.
Best Regards,
ateco Warn challenge committee.
28th June 2004
Joe.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
I notice it mentions 6 point cage including A pillar protection. Does this just mean that the cage has to follow the A pillar or does it have further requirements? I would have thought all 6 point cages would have followed the A pillar.
Range Rover - 4.4 V8, MD Crawler Box, F&R Lockers, 35" Centipedes, 4" lift. Overqualified WebWheeler!!!
Discovery - Bling touring stuff!
Discovery - Bling touring stuff!
Ateco
I have just finished running the Xtreme Winch Challenge Series. This Series was run for the full year with what is trying to be introduced now plus window nets. I do not see what the problems are with an event organiser bring in safety rules to protect driver & codriver after all it is for your beneifit.
As for this being a slow speed event, you are so wrong it is not funny. What about the side angles & distance up a hill, gravity does tend to take over sometimes. During the year we had several roll overs that could have turned out a lot worse if it had not been for the safety items (full roll bar, 6 point for wagon & 4 point for ute, window nets, helments & full harness) that I had introduced at the end of 2003 Series. After a lot of smoke & wind from the drivers the changes still came in & now no one in the Xtreme Series worries about them.
All I can say is embrace the changes, it will be you that may be saved from body injuries.
Regards David (MMM)
As for this being a slow speed event, you are so wrong it is not funny. What about the side angles & distance up a hill, gravity does tend to take over sometimes. During the year we had several roll overs that could have turned out a lot worse if it had not been for the safety items (full roll bar, 6 point for wagon & 4 point for ute, window nets, helments & full harness) that I had introduced at the end of 2003 Series. After a lot of smoke & wind from the drivers the changes still came in & now no one in the Xtreme Series worries about them.
All I can say is embrace the changes, it will be you that may be saved from body injuries.
Regards David (MMM)
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Posts: 3825
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:42 pm
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:42 pm
Location: in the sky , its a bird , its a plane ! No its super MOOSE !!!
Re: Ateco
XTREME MMM wrote:I have just finished running the Xtreme Winch Challenge Series. This Series was run for the full year with what is trying to be introduced now plus window nets. I do not see what the problems are with an event organiser bring in safety rules to protect driver & codriver after all it is for your beneifit.
As for this being a slow speed event, you are so wrong it is not funny. What about the side angles & distance up a hill, gravity does tend to take over sometimes. During the year we had several roll overs that could have turned out a lot worse if it had not been for the safety items (full roll bar, 6 point for wagon & 4 point for ute, window nets, helments & full harness) that I had introduced at the end of 2003 Series. After a lot of smoke & wind from the drivers the changes still came in & now no one in the Xtreme Series worries about them.
All I can say is embrace the changes, it will be you that may be saved from body injuries.
Regards David (MMM)
hear hear !!
MissForbyNoob wrote:
and one day i'll just become a worthless housewife.
and one day i'll just become a worthless housewife.
ateco
I dont understand why the six piont cage doesn't take into account the ute or tray mounted rollbar should it not be the amount of points all up as aposed to one cage.BTW some of the vehicle are still street driven how do you think these cages for utes will go with the aurthoritys , i recon they will be all over people.make it six for a wagon and 4 for a ute +rollbar CAMS speced of corse .Lets not make this for trailer rigs only.
Lockers or Knockers ,both will make for fun.
HYBRID 4B PRDUCTS Visit Tigerz11 here http://www.tigerz11.com.au/ and LOCKTUP 4x4 here http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/ cheers
www.trailtrack4x4.com
HYBRID 4B PRDUCTS Visit Tigerz11 here http://www.tigerz11.com.au/ and LOCKTUP 4x4 here http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/ cheers
www.trailtrack4x4.com
Ateco
You will find that in a wagon or ute the rollbar has to stay within the cab area & NOT GO OUT the back window, hence a full cage from the "A" Pillar is really a 4 point in a ute. (in my Xtreme Events) I recommend that 2 forward braces from the "B" pillar be used in a ute, as well as picking up the upper seat belt mounts.
The idea of the rollbar is to put the driver & codriver into a safety capule, the rollbar should only be mounted to the body & not the frame. Under most state laws the roll bar must be removable (bolt in) & CAMS allow the Cage to be welded in. Apart from this the Queensland & NSW Machinery laws on cages regards tube size is the same as CAMS.
If you are concerned about getting pulled over by Transport, I do not think it will be your internal cage that will be the reason for them stopping you. If it has been done correctly & plated/approved by your State Machinery body you will not have any trouble.
As I say with my Xtreme Events "if you want to come & play you will go by my rules" if you dont pack your toys & go and play with someone else.
"THERE IS NO COMPREMISE FOR YOUR SAFETY"
Regards David (MMM)
The idea of the rollbar is to put the driver & codriver into a safety capule, the rollbar should only be mounted to the body & not the frame. Under most state laws the roll bar must be removable (bolt in) & CAMS allow the Cage to be welded in. Apart from this the Queensland & NSW Machinery laws on cages regards tube size is the same as CAMS.
If you are concerned about getting pulled over by Transport, I do not think it will be your internal cage that will be the reason for them stopping you. If it has been done correctly & plated/approved by your State Machinery body you will not have any trouble.
As I say with my Xtreme Events "if you want to come & play you will go by my rules" if you dont pack your toys & go and play with someone else.
"THERE IS NO COMPREMISE FOR YOUR SAFETY"
Regards David (MMM)
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Rollcage thread here http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=21963
Ok so Dave has answered my question for his events but what about the CCDA?
Ok so Dave has answered my question for his events but what about the CCDA?
I dont have an issue with the requirement, but l believe that these things should have been worked out prior to the entry forms being sent out to applicants.
Andrew and l were up at the property last week helping out and l can state that there will be area where high speeds will be reached, and some side angle sections where a roll will mean going over more than once.
Andrew and l were up at the property last week helping out and l can state that there will be area where high speeds will be reached, and some side angle sections where a roll will mean going over more than once.
Joe.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
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